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-   -   Umbridge's Inquisitorial Squad - The American Politics Thread (http://forums.scrollsoflore.com/showthread.php?t=8540)

Ashendant 11-23-2010 05:41 PM

Umbridge's Inquisitorial Squad - The American Politics Thread
 
This is a thread to talk about anything political, the title is a joke

I'll start with the Nato Summit in my country
Quote:

NATO seeks missile defence agreement with Russia

Earlier, during the NATO summit, Obama said the most important thing he could do for the European economy was to promote growth and jobs in the United States, saying that the quicker the US economy recovered, the better it was for all.

NATO leaders agreed on Friday to develop a missile system to protect the territory of all NATO member states in Europe and North America. It will be capable of intercepting long-range missiles fired from the Middle East.

Russia will be invited to be involved in the system when President Dmitry Medvedev meets US President Barack Obama and other NATO leaders at the summit in Portugal, but it remains unclear what role Moscow might play.

The system would be designed to defend against intercontinental ballistic missiles fired from Iran or North Korea, but Russia is reluctant to join a programme that defines Iran as a potential missile threat.

NATO member Turkey also is opposed to identifying Iran, a neighbour and ally, as a possible aggressor. NATO sources said leaders had agreed not to name Iran in a statement that will refer to the missile shield, securing Turkey's support.

NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen will hope language can be found to satisfy Russia and make the missile defence cooperation possible.
What do you think of this improvement of cooperation between russia and NATO

Also

ttp://www.nemesisnwo.blogspot.com/

I like this guy even trough he's a bit i think dramatic, he addresses serious points quite effectively

There's also this forum to talk about EU politics i would be thankful if anybody would go in there
http://forum.yoursay.eu/

jjstraka 11-23-2010 06:24 PM

Good idea, it will cut down on the amount of threads we need to start, and also free up the Hulk smash thread from the political and religious talk that alot of posters are either sick of or uncomfortable with. I think we should sticky this on a temporary basis and see how it works.

Bolvar 11-24-2010 09:15 AM

Ireland is bankrupt and asking for a bailout.

They say Portugal is next.

Who is doing the bailing out? Are any of the EU nations really solvent enough to absorb this?

Ashendant 11-24-2010 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolvar (Post 248965)
Ireland is bankrupt and asking for a bailout.

They say Portugal is next.

Who is doing the bailing out? Are any of the EU nations really solvent enough to absorb this?

... your knowledge of the European countries is very very low, Ireland is not bankrupt in fact it has much money, the problem is that they have to sell t banks that failed and that incurs debt, and when paying their old debts the markets are asking for irrational interest rates, if it weren't for those stupidly high interest rates based on irrational fears Ireland would not need any type of bailout.

Portugal is next because the markets are irrationally afraid and the rating agencies want to get richer

In fact we have a 750 billion euros (1 trillion dollars) ready to pay any eurozone country that needs a bailout, with a extra 110 billion euros for greece

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...055571/1/.html

Bolvar 11-24-2010 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashendant (Post 248970)
... your knowledge of the European countries is very very low, Ireland is not bankrupt in fact it has much money, the problem is that they have to sell t banks that failed and that incurs debt, and when paying their old debts the markets are asking for irrational interest rates, if it weren't for those stupidly high interest rates based on irrational fears Ireland would not need any type of bailout.

Portugal is next because the markets are irrationally afraid and the rating agencies want to get richer

In fact we have a 750 billion euros (1 trillion dollars) ready to pay any eurozone country that needs a bailout, with a extra 110 billion euros for greece

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...055571/1/.html

That's sort of why I was asking... I'm well aware that I don't have intimate knowledge of EU politics, and I figured this community would have educated viewpoints on the matter.

How is it interest rates are so bad there? Interest rates here in the US are absurdly low - in fact, I think the Fed is actually trying to get them to move up a bit.

Rashid 11-24-2010 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolvar (Post 248971)
How is it interest rates are so bad there? Interest rates here in the US are absurdly low - in fact, I think the Fed is actually trying to get them to move up a bit.

I think that's because we actually have the federal reserve to tell us that they're low. I'm not sure what the equivalent body would be in the EU markets or if their function would even cover the same responsibility.

Ashendant 11-24-2010 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolvar (Post 248971)
That's sort of why I was asking... I'm well aware that I don't have intimate knowledge of EU politics, and I figured this community would have educated viewpoints on the matter.

How is it interest rates are so bad there? Interest rates here in the US are absurdly low - in fact, I think the Fed is actually trying to get them to move up a bit.

Some of our interest rates have risen to 10%, it's ridiculous high

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rashid (Post 248980)
I think that's because we actually have the federal reserve to tell us that they're low. I'm not sure what the equivalent body would be in the EU markets or if their function would even cover the same responsibility.

We have the ECB (European Central Bank) which is responsible for the Euro and stopping inflation

Omacron 11-24-2010 03:52 PM

To answer your original question, Bolvar, it seems like Germany and France are basically propping up the Euro and being used by other (mostly eastern and southern European) states to absorb the fallout of the global recession and prop up the Euro.

Ashendant 11-24-2010 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omacron (Post 248999)
To answer your original question, Bolvar, it seems like Germany and France are basically propping up the Euro and being used by other (mostly eastern and southern European) states to absorb the fallout of the global recession and prop up the Euro.

It's not just germany and france everyone is paying for the Euro, even Portugal is going to give 2 billion to ireland and is supposedly next in line for a bailout

Yuber8900 11-24-2010 04:47 PM

Probably the double posting.

Ashendant 11-26-2010 03:24 PM

Important

Quote:

Tony Blair and Christopher Hitchens to debate religion
Graphic showing religion poll results

Former UK prime minister Tony Blair is to take on columnist Christopher Hitchens in a televised public debate for and against religion.

jjstraka 11-26-2010 03:46 PM

It is amazing Hitchens is even doing this considering he is in the final stages of a almost certainly terminal cancer. I would love to watch clips of this after it goes down.

Ashendant 11-27-2010 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjstraka (Post 249186)
It is amazing Hitchens is even doing this considering he is in the final stages of a almost certainly terminal cancer. I would love to watch clips of this after it goes down.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11843586

He's even denying religion on it's deathbed :)

EDIT: wikileaks is going to release a huge amount of leaks on US diplomacy x7 times more data than the war diaries, the US is already apologising in advance

Timolas 11-28-2010 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashendant (Post 249260)
the US is already apologising in advance

Delicious!

I'm enjoying all this news down in the general forum.

Anyone here read the Economist?

Ashendant 11-28-2010 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timolas (Post 249522)
Delicious!

I'm enjoying all this news down in the general forum.

Anyone here read the Economist?

No what does it say?

Timolas 12-01-2010 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashendant (Post 249525)
No what does it say?

The Economist is just a news magazine about the economy and politics. It is very well written.


-

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/1p81s1...NewsLinks.html

Why Europeans Think We're Insane
"It wasn't until I left America that I started to realize how badly the American plutocrat owned media lies to the American people through its disinformation campaign."

Bolvar 12-01-2010 05:08 PM

I suspected as much.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4dd95e42-f...#axzz16uN3Nm3h

Timolas 12-01-2010 05:13 PM

Who cares about private banks?
You should have mentioned Ireland getting a bail-out or something.

Bolvar 12-01-2010 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timolas (Post 250195)
Who cares about private banks?
You should have mentioned Ireland getting a bail-out or something.

Honestly, are private banks so disconnected from world governments?

I'm really not making a commentary with that link, just sharing something interesting I found.

Cantus 12-01-2010 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolvar (Post 250199)
Honestly, are private banks so disconnected from world governments?

I'm really not making a commentary with that link, just sharing something interesting I found.

Actually, they are, but only in the sense that most international corporations (banks and etc.) are probably more powerful than any single government with the sole exception of China where they take over any corporations that have the potential to destroy them.

Also, in regards to Hitchens, I actually had the chance to see him speak at my University several months ago. Fucking fantastic, and he tore any and all individuals up who were stupid enough to try and pull old propagandist arguments up. Giant asshole, but damn does that man know how to speak/reason.

Bolvar 12-02-2010 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cantus (Post 250225)
Actually, they are, but only in the sense that most international corporations (banks and etc.) are probably more powerful than any single government with the sole exception of China where they take over any corporations that have the potential to destroy them.

Also, in regards to Hitchens, I actually had the chance to see him speak at my University several months ago. Fucking fantastic, and he tore any and all individuals up who were stupid enough to try and pull old propagandist arguments up. Giant asshole, but damn does that man know how to speak/reason.

I think the benefits that the banking industry has enjoyed from all these billions of dollars in taxpayer "bailouts" (that have provided no relief to the actual taxpayers) are a clear indication that the banking industry is quite inseparable from the government at this point.

Ashendant 12-02-2010 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolvar (Post 250289)
I think the benefits that the banking industry has enjoyed from all these billions of dollars in taxpayer "bailouts" (that have provided no relief to the actual taxpayers) are a clear indication that the banking industry is quite inseparable from the government at this point.

We in the EU payed a total of 4.5 trillion to save the banks :sweatdrop

Bolvar 12-02-2010 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashendant (Post 250329)
We in the EU payed a total of 4.5 trillion to save the banks :sweatdrop

Well, I suppose there's some comfort in the knowledge that this isn't an exclusively American problem.

Ashendant 12-02-2010 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolvar (Post 250339)
Well, I suppose there's some comfort in the knowledge that this isn't an exclusively American problem.

Well america infected us with it's problems, no wonder it's not a exclusively american problem

Hidden 12-02-2010 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashendant (Post 250373)
Well america infected us with it's problems, no wonder it's not a exclusively american problem

http://images2.memegenerator.net/oka...mThumbnail.jpg

Bolvar 12-02-2010 03:58 PM

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dai...109.guest.html

From the article:

Quote:

The vast majority of all these people getting bailouts are wealthy, filthy-rich Democrats.
For the record, I oppose any wealthy, filthy-rich Republicans getting bailout money, too.

This crap needs to stop.

Ashendant 12-02-2010 04:20 PM

Or what let the economy collapse?

Bolvar 12-02-2010 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashendant (Post 250436)
Or what let the economy collapse?

Did you read the article?

Most of the recipients of these bailouts didn't need the money in the first place.

Corporations across the board are reporting record profits, yet unemployment remains historically high. These scumbags have cashed in on free money or extremely low-interest government loans, laid off thousands, and gotten filthy rich.

The companies that didn't get a handout are essentially playing with a handicap. So, basically, if you didn't get in bed with Obama, you're fighting an uphill battle. Worse, now Obama's government has an unprecedented amount of influence on the boards of many of the world's largest and most influential corporations. As Limbaugh states, it's basically socialism, and teetering dangerously close to fascism.

Omacron 12-03-2010 03:08 AM

Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't socialism, at least in theory, about providing for the people?


This is just run of the mill corporatism. We've had this in our past before. And you know how we got rid of it?

This man. The great grandpappy of Progressive thought, the "real" Pappa Bear.

Zula 12-03-2010 07:28 AM

Quote:

The companies that didn't get a handout are essentially playing with a handicap. So, basically, if you didn't get in bed with Obama, you're fighting an uphill battle. Worse, now Obama's government has an unprecedented amount of influence on the boards of many of the world's largest and most influential corporations. As Limbaugh states, it's basically socialism, and teetering dangerously close to fascism.
Omacron is right here Bolvar what Obama does is far from socialism. Even from what you interpret as socialism.

jjstraka 12-03-2010 04:23 PM

I swear to god, there is a huge undercurrent of scary going on in this country right now. Unemployment is at 9.8% (and that is likley closer to 17%). And everyday I see stuff like this:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmem..._l.php?ref=fpb

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/arc..._12/026874.php

There is some serious tribalism being fostered by the right-wing in this country. The two things referenced in those articles (property owners only voting and states rights) are clear dog whistles to people who think poor black people are stealing all their money because a African-Amerian President is in office (well they have always thought it, but now the fear is manifest). If Obama doesn't grow a spine and stand up to this bullshit, I am starting to think that a President Palin is more and more of a possibility, and that is a terrifying thought.

Bolvar 12-03-2010 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjstraka (Post 250626)
I swear to god, there is a huge undercurrent of scary going on in this country right now. Unemployment is at 9.8% (and that is likley closer to 17%). And everyday I see stuff like this:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmem..._l.php?ref=fpb

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/arc..._12/026874.php

There is some serious tribalism being fostered by the right-wing in this country. The two things referenced in those articles (property owners only voting and states rights) are clear dog whistles to people who think poor black people are stealing all their money because a African-Amerian President is in office (well they have always thought it, but now the fear is manifest). If Obama doesn't grow a spine and stand up to this bullshit, I am starting to think that a President Palin is more and more of a possibility, and that is a terrifying thought.

Doesn't say a damned thing about black people in those articles.

I'm not suggesting I support the notion of voting rights only for property owners... but where do they say blacks cannot own property?

This isn't about racism - it's about the middle class shrinking exponentially by the minute, and they're getting a little freaked out about it. Can you blame them?

I can see why you wouldn't give a damn if you're filthy rich, or dirt poor, and plan to stay that way, but instead of screaming OMG RACISM! at every turn, look at the root cause, and what the real concern is.

Ashendant 12-03-2010 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolvar (Post 250627)
Doesn't say a damned thing about black people in those articles.

I'm not suggesting I support the notion of voting rights only for property owners... but where do they say blacks cannot own property?

This isn't about racism - it's about the middle class shrinking exponentially by the minute, and they're getting a little freaked out about it. Can you blame them?

I can see why you wouldn't give a damn if you're filthy rich, or dirt poor, and plan to stay that way, but instead of screaming OMG RACISM! at every turn, look at the root cause, and what the real concern is.

Yes and cutting cash from the poor and give it to the rich is going to increase the middle class

jjstraka 12-03-2010 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolvar (Post 250627)
Doesn't say a damned thing about black people in those articles.

I'm not suggesting I support the notion of voting rights only for property owners... but where do they say blacks cannot own property?

This isn't about racism - it's about the middle class shrinking exponentially by the minute, and they're getting a little freaked out about it. Can you blame them?

I can see why you wouldn't give a damn if you're filthy rich, or dirt poor, and plan to stay that way, but instead of screaming OMG RACISM! at every turn, look at the root cause, and what the real concern is.

They are dog whistles. Property-only voting was used in the Jim Crow South to keep blacks from voting after the Civil War. That's it's history. The people who kinda favor that (even in the back of their head) is who that Tea Party guy is talking to. As for the States being able to overturn ANY federal law, that is just madness waiting to happen. My favorite politician is actually fictional (lol, yes I know pathetic) but this is a fantastic clip from one of the best TV dramas ever produced:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyqzPu5pX6U

Part about the State and Federal governements starts at about 2:00. Brilliant.

Bolvar 12-03-2010 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashendant (Post 250631)
Yes and cutting cash from the poor and give it to the rich is going to increase the middle class

Who said I was in support of that?

I want tax cuts across the board.

This will benefit the poor. We shouldn't have to "give" them anything. An affluent middle class = more small business = more jobs. These are facts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjstraka (Post 250632)
They are dog whistles. Property-only voting was used in the Jim Crow South to keep blacks from voting after the Civil War. That's it's history. The people who kinda favor that (even in the back of their head) is who that Tea Party guy is talking to. As for the States being able to overturn ANY federal law, that is just madness waiting to happen. My favorite politician is actually fictional (lol, yes I know pathetic) but this is a fantastic clip from one of the best TV dramas ever produced:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyqzPu5pX6U

Part about the State and Federal governements starts at about 2:00. Brilliant.

Why would state sovereignty be "madness"?

We're not talking about enabling the states to do anything unconstitutional.

Besides, most federal laws come with hooks in them to make them attractive to states, namely, federal funding that vanishes if you don't comply.

Ashendant 12-03-2010 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolvar (Post 250633)
Who said I was in support of that?

I want tax cuts across the board.

This will benefit the poor. We shouldn't have to "give" them anything. An affluent middle class = more small business = more jobs. These are facts.

Do the rich really need tax cuts?

Bolvar 12-03-2010 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashendant (Post 250635)
Do the rich really need tax cuts?

I believe in equality.

Just because you've earned more doesn't mean you should pay at a higher rate.

We already give substantial tax breaks to the poor (most that are truly classified as poor don't pay any income tax).

Overtaxing the rich only encourages them to take their money elsewhere. Since they're rich, they can afford to do that. I'd rather they keep more of their money, and have more to spend back into the economy. Even if all they do is buy stocks and bonds with it, that's good for the economy.

jjstraka 12-03-2010 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolvar (Post 250633)

Why would state sovereignty be "madness"?

In a way it's already like this. You couldn't pay me to live in a rural community in Alabama or Missisippi, just as I'm sure you wouldn't feel great about living in San Francisco or, say Seattle. We alrady have tons of disparity in the way certain sections of the country are governed. States have plenty of say as it is right now. If someone was a die-hard, bleed red, white and blue conservative living in South Carolina or Oklahoma, I can't imagine what the hell they would have to feel disenchanted about.

Bolvar 12-03-2010 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjstraka (Post 250637)
In a way it's already like this. You couldn't pay me to live in a rural community in Alabama or Missisippi, just as I'm sure you wouldn't feel great about living in San Francisco or, say Seattle. We alrady have tons of disparity in the way certain sections of the country are governed. States have plenty of say as it is right now. If someone was a die-hard, bleed red, white and blue conservative living in South Carolina or Oklahoma, I can't imagine what the hell they would have to feel disenchanted about.

Well, for starters, they could reject Obamacare. You know, since most small businesses can't get one of the coveted waivers the administration is passing out to their favorite donors.

I live in Arizona, and while I'm generally content with my local political scene, I'd be happy to have the federal government keep its nose out of our business when it comes to issues like SB1070.

jjstraka 12-03-2010 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolvar (Post 250636)
I believe in equality.

Just because you've earned more doesn't mean you should pay at a higher rate.

We already give substantial tax breaks to the poor (most that are truly classified as poor don't pay any income tax).

Overtaxing the rich only encourages them to take their money elsewhere. Since they're rich, they can afford to do that. I'd rather they keep more of their money, and have more to spend back into the economy. Even if all they do is buy stocks and bonds with it, that's good for the economy.

Yes, and the poor also pay a higher percentage of their income in payroll and sales taxes, which is why a national sales or flat tax would be a disaster for them. And then they wouldn't be spending the already meager amounts they do. It's funny every time a idea for a payroll tax holiday has come up in this recession that it has been dismissed out of hand.

The rich are taking their money elsewhere anyway. There is a fine line between being rich and becoming a unholy, greedy bastard, and the upper class in this country is trending toward the later.

At any rate, Obama is going to cave to the Republicans on extending this crap anyway, so it's MY side that has something to complain about. You should be patting him on the back right now.

Quote:

I live in Arizona, and while I'm generally content with my local political scene, I'd be happy to have the federal government keep its nose out of our business when it comes to issues like SB1070.
I particularly love the recent law that is a acutal death panel. The one that has cut the funding for TRANSPLANTS from the state version of Medicaid, which essentialy means if you can't afford it (even if you've been on a waiting list) you die. It's a points like this where I say freedom can go fly a kite.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/03/us...nt.html?src=me


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