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-   -   Peer Allies: The Botany of (Allied)races (http://forums.scrollsoflore.com/showthread.php?t=221180)

RobLore 07-09-2009 02:09 PM

Sub-Races
 
So what if we dont get real races with new capitals and starting zones etc and get "sub-races" instead such as Mag'har, Taunka, High Elves and Furbolg?

For instance, Taunka could start in Mulgore and share Orgrimmar. High Elves in Elwynn. Furbolgs in Darnassus and Mag'har in Durotar.

What do you think?
Im neutral about it. On one side they wouldnt need to bother to create a large starting zone etc but on the other side it doesnt really make sense to me and if there would be new races then I think Blizzard should bother to do new unique races.

Warlock 07-09-2009 02:12 PM

Won't happen. Especially not without capitals (Gnomes and Trolls got screwed by being added last to the game, and thus Blizzard ran out of time to give them a proper starting area).

Xarthat 07-09-2009 02:17 PM

I had an idea about sub-races once. Mine amounted basically to them being minor re-skins or re-models of the existing races.

Gurtogg_Bloodboil 07-09-2009 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xarthat (Post 128980)
I had an idea about sub-races once. Mine amounted basically to them being minor re-skins or re-models of the existing races.

Exactly. Basically, just give more skin options if anything. That way if you really simply must roleplay your Blood Elf as a High Elf, your Darkspear Troll as a green jungle troll, or your Dwarf as a Dark Iron then you have the option.

Giving a whole new model as a “sub-race” is not a sub-race at all, its an entirely new one.

Dark Avenger 07-09-2009 05:31 PM

I'm pretty much in agreement with Xar and Gurt. It would be easier (and make more sense) just to make the sub-races a model off-shot of the originals rather than make them entire races in their own right.

Nene 07-09-2009 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurtogg_Bloodboil (Post 128982)
That way if you really simply must roleplay your Blood Elf as a High Elf

:angry:

RobLore 07-09-2009 06:50 PM

Thats pretty much how the idea is. They have the exact same classes etc.

Though some races like Furbolgs would need new models. It would be unfair if only some races got sub-races.

Lon-ami 07-10-2009 03:34 AM

No.

Sub-races suck. They're not new, not at all.

What should be implemented are shapeshifting items, or just make the ones for quests don't disappear after completion.

That, or make something similar to the zombie event. Similar, not 100% the same.

For example, orcs could drink fel blood and become fel orcs. No matter what you do, you'll still be a fel orc. You can only fix this by going to a certain point.

Same for broken, mag'har and lost ones.

You could even change your status for your factions to war, so you can attack your own faction leaders and players.

That would be indeed interesting.

Ded Chikn 07-10-2009 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lon-ami (Post 129010)
Same for broken, mag'har and lost ones.

If Broken was a usable skin for Draenei, maybe Id be able to finally make a male of the species. Broken are much better looking then the current barrel on stilts that we have.

Daiol 07-10-2009 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ded Chikn (Post 129017)
If Broken was a usable skin for Draenei, maybe Id be able to finally make a male of the species. Broken are much better looking then the current barrel on stilts that we have.

This

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurtogg_Bloodboil
Exactly. Basically, just give more skin options if anything. That way if you really simply must roleplay your Blood Elf as a High Elf, your Darkspear Troll as a green jungle troll, or your Dwarf as a Dark Iron then you have the option.

Giving a whole new model as a “sub-race” is not a sub-race at all, its an entirely new one.

Also this. And readd Dwarven Mages!

ScytheRexx 07-10-2009 11:22 AM

(In regards to Gurts Dwarf Mage comment above) I have to be honest, I have wanted them to go lax on the classes for a long time now, damn the lore. Maybe even make it so after you get a certain level you can open up "rare" combination, like troll druids or night elf mages. It will never happen, but I always thought it would be interesting to play a character outside of the racial norms.

As for player skins, they did kind of make it so you can be certain ranges on certain races, like they already have a "semi-darkiron" skin on the dwarves, and even the trolls have one very greenish hued skin (just not to the level of actual forest trolls). I think they should just go all the way and make skins for all the sub-races, like the very ashen blue tone for Blackrock Orcs.

Omacron 07-10-2009 11:26 AM

I actually had a pretty good idea for Troll druids for a while now. You know how all these troll dungeons involve trolls taking on the spirits of their animal gods and turning in to them? That'd be my rationale for tauren "druids", though they'd be druids in the same way that blood elves were paladins. Alliance side, you could've given druidism to dwarves (wildhammer) or gnomes (transformation devices).

Daiol 07-10-2009 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omacron (Post 129044)
I actually had a pretty good idea for Troll druids for a while now. You know how all these troll dungeons involve trolls taking on the spirits of their animal gods and turning in to them? That'd be my rationale for tauren "druids", though they'd be druids in the same way that blood elves were paladins. Alliance side, you could've given druidism to dwarves (wildhammer) or gnomes (transformation devices).

Cub, Kitten, and Chick forms!

edit: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/commu...llery.html#206 < relevant.

RobLore 07-10-2009 03:44 PM

If Trolls get Druids then the Alliance must get a new druid too. Otherwise you get class inbalance. There is a reason there are 3 shamans/1 paladin on Horde and 3 Paladins/1 shaman on Alliance etc.

Gurtogg_Bloodboil 07-10-2009 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScytheRexx (Post 129043)
Maybe even make it so after you get a certain level you can open up "rare" combination, like troll druids or night elf mages. It will never happen, but I always thought it would be interesting to play a character outside of the racial norms.

As for player skins, they did kind of make it so you can be certain ranges on certain races, like they already have a "semi-darkiron" skin on the dwarves, and even the trolls have one very greenish hued skin (just not to the level of actual forest trolls). I think they should just go all the way and make skins for all the sub-races, like the very ashen blue tone for Blackrock Orcs.

You gave me an idea that I think might be interesting. Adding the new skin options as unlockables, perhaps through certain achievements.

That way, it basically doesn’t hurt the lore. Players will have to know they are and play as a Darkspear Troll for example, until they reach the point of being able to unlock more options. It won’t be straight out giving it to them as if whatever other color trolls have officially joined the horde, but it would be pure game mechanic and an interesting thing to add for people who want to look different. I’d say once you unlock it, you can use it on subsequent new characters or on your own through a make-over from a goblin dermatologist (think Barber Shop).

Pretty much every race has at least one alternate skin that could be implemented:

Trolls: Jungle, Dark/Zandalar, Sand, etc.
Dwarves: Dark Irons, Wildhammers
Orcs: Blackrock, Mag’har, Fel
Gnomes: Leper, Mecha
Blooed Elves: High Elves
Draenei: Red Eredar
Human: Goth skin with the face paint from Scholomance
Undead: The Chinese undead skin without bones showing (I think it looks better)
Tauren: All White Spirit Walker
Night Elves: Maybe some different eye colors, or a more pinkish tone part way between Night and High Elves

Plus every one can have just some additional generic options or more colors if explicable. I think a blue human would be cool, if they descended from the Blue Vykrul instead of normal ones.

AndyJP 07-10-2009 06:44 PM

How would you roleplay as a High Elf if you're part of the Horde? I don't think I would really like this though, if you're going to allow dwarves to be dark iron and orcs be fel orcs you may as well scrap separate factions entirely.

Allowing any class to be any race I wouldn't mind as much. With all the adventuring going on and coalescing that had been happening, it wouldn't really be far-fetched to say <blank> sought tutelage from <blank> of the Argent Crusade/Earthen Ring/Cenarion Circle, etc.

Gurtogg_Bloodboil 07-10-2009 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJP (Post 129070)
How would you roleplay as a High Elf if you're part of the Horde?

A great deal of roleplayer's already do this. I'm almost persuaded to say the majority since I saw it so frequently. Its even prevalent on these very forums.


Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyJP (Post 129070)
I don't think I would really like this though, if you're going to allow dwarves to be dark iron and orcs be fel orcs you may as well scrap separate factions entirely.

It’s more simply a cosmetic thing. As with Blood Elves, a large portion of Dwarves pretend they are Dark Irons in disguise or half Dark Iron or some bullshit. People just want to be different for whatever reason.

I’d suggest the achievements the skins be attached to be rather difficult and time consuming, but worth it for those who just have to roleplay as their favorite subrace. Keep in mind, in no way am I suggesting that lorewise the Dark Irons join the alliance. Its just a game mechanic special reward, like white drake mounts.

AndyJP 07-10-2009 07:22 PM

But white drakes are just drakes with albinism.. :(

Sure, it's a roleplayer's dream, but I am thinking more along the lines of entering Stormwind one day and seeing Eredar, Leper Gnomes, and Dark Iron Dwarves running around everywhere. Probably the best way to do this is to make it a rare trinket, so that it will appeal to roleplayers most of all, while others would see it as a useless waste of trinket slot.

On the other hand, having an unlockable option to roll a mag'har orc or wildhammer dwarf would work out fine. But if Alliance got High Elves, Horde would need one of the alliance models, leper gnomes maybe?

Ded Chikn 07-10-2009 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurtogg_Bloodboil (Post 129066)
Human: Goth skin with the face paint from Scholomance

Im suprised this wasnt an option when making a death knight.

ARM3481 07-10-2009 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ded Chikn (Post 129080)
Im suprised this wasnt an option when making a death knight.

A fair number of people expected just such a thing to be possible with the addition of the Barbershop. Then it turned out that "inking night elf facial tattoos" just meant resetting a night elf player's choice from back when they created their character and picking one of the same bunch of old tattoos that shipped with Vanilla WoW.

And on top of that, the "new" hairstyles turned out to pretty much be resized versions of the old ones made to fit other races' heads. So now a night elf female can wear a female dwarf's style of braid. Huzzah. :rolleyes:

Even the in-game mechanism that's tailor-made for visible customization basically just recycled things already available to the players in some form.

Omacron 07-10-2009 09:36 PM

Not to mention we still don't have that dance studio.


I WANT MY MOONKIN TO DO CARAMELDANSEN, DAMNIT!

ARM3481 07-10-2009 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omacron (Post 129085)
Not to mention we still don't have that dance studio.


I WANT MY MOONKIN TO DO CARAMELDANSEN, DAMNIT!

Cross your fingers and hope they don't just make it to let the players learn to do the other races' dances...

I mean, that'd be a neat thing in itself in a way, but it would also be sort of a cop-out if it didn't include something truly new that could be learned.

AndyJP 07-11-2009 03:03 AM

It'd be sweet if they changed it into allowing us to choose all of our animations, not just the dancing.

Xarthat 07-11-2009 05:41 AM

Lastly I was thinking of some trinket that upon use would change its user into his target. So, think of Ironforge Dwarf targetting Dark Iron, then he uses the trinket and bam! He looks like a Dark Iron, while keeping all of his abilities intact. This would be unusable on certain creatures (we don't want hundreds of Zul'jins dueling with hundreds of Arthases in the middle of Stormwind) and would last several hours, then expire, or expire on death. What about it?

Rowan Seven 07-11-2009 06:20 PM

I like Gurtogg's achievement/unlockable idea, although I disagree with a few of the proposed options. I'm fine with the idea of Mag'har or Blackrock skins since the Mag'har seem to have joined the Horde and it's possible that a number of Blackrock orcs, like Eitrigg, decided they'd rather be part of the New Horde than the "Dark" Horde, but fel orcs and red eredar skins? Those...don't seem to fit the story very well, and I'd prefer new cosmetic changes that don't make me roll my eyes at the lore contradictions. So, perhaps one unlockable skin for each race, such as:
Trolls = Forest (Revantusk)
Tauren = Albino (Spirit Walker, or perhaps just as a sign of power/sacredness)
Orcs = Mag'har or Blackrock
Forsaken = Chinese bone-covered models
Blood Elfs = High Elves (I can picture _some_ High Elves remaining faithful to Silvermoon despite all the hardships they'd endure)
Gnomes = Mecha (cybernetic limbs, perhaps?)
Dwarves = Wildhammer
Night Elves = Don't know about this one.
Draenei = Another hard one.
Humans = Don't know about this one either, but the goth look sounds like it might be cool.


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