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C9H20 12-12-2012 04:24 PM

Random Lore Talks Thread
 
We need one, often I think of some lore tidbit that doesn't quite deserve a special thread but also doesn't fit into any currently relevant thread.

So knock yourselves out, post anything lore related you want, in this thread derails are impossible and no topic is barred. Consider it the Lore Forums version of the Spam Thread.


I'll start with an idea I got yesterday, basically it is like the situation America post Civil War, the government tried to shift the bad blood and negative sentiments to a third party by way of engaging in a war against it, that was the war against Spain that followed the American Civil War and it served to unify the two halves of the US.

Same idea here, after defeating the Horde in SoO the Alliance decides that it is better to make a close ally of the Horde rather then a temporarily defeated enemy. So with great pomp they announce the creation of the prophecized Army of the Light composed of the unified armies of the Horde and Alliance and marches it off to battle the Burning Legion pockets in Outland.
There we can get some post-peace bickering and resentment left from the war, instances of "friendly fire" and such might happen as the army annihilates the relatively weak Legion troops. But the plan does work and a measure of reconciliation does occur, and while conducting Burning Legion extermination they find troubling signs of greater plans unfolding.
And just then shit hits the fan and breaks it, the phony AotL finds itself battling a full fledged demonic invasion, they are forced to get a grip on the situation and quickly, then the army sets out to claim the name Army of the Light for real.

Shaman 12-12-2012 04:26 PM

I apologize for deleting the old thread, I must have ticked it when deleting the bot spam.

Volkrin 12-12-2012 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarahmoo (Post 596857)
I apologize for deleting the old thread, I must have ticked it when deleting the bot spam.

The skull icon is a nice touch.

Bolvar 12-12-2012 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarahmoo (Post 596857)
I apologize for deleting the old thread, I must have ticked it when deleting the bot spam.

It's like I said in the other thread - you're like the Randy Johnson of bot-slayers around here.

And when you throw over 4,800 career strikeouts, people can forgive the occasional innocent bystander.


Shaman 12-12-2012 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volkrin (Post 596858)
The skull icon is a nice touch.

Post icons are a very underrated aspect of this forun.

Millenia 12-12-2012 04:44 PM

Honestly, the idea in the op could just fit in the Aftermath of the Siege of Orgrimmar thread. It seems neat, I suppose, though I swing more toward a greater rift between the factions due to the inevitability of more faction conflict.

SmokeBlader 12-12-2012 05:29 PM

Dark Riders of Deadwind Pass

Who are they?
What are they?
What do they want?

I say they are the original Death Knights. I hope it's true when the comic comes out.

Mshadowz 12-12-2012 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeBlader (Post 596899)
Dark Riders of Deadwind Pass

Who are they?
What are they?
What do they want?

I say they are the original Death Knights. I hope it's true when the comic comes out.

The rumour now is that it is Varkas. The facts seem to add up, even though nothing shows them being worgen.

C9H20 12-12-2012 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Millenia (Post 596869)
It seems neat, I suppose, though I swing more toward a greater rift between the factions due to the inevitability of more faction conflict.

Me too, but with the Army of the Light forced upon us we have to do some damage control.

Preferably I'd like to see the faction conflict drag on for several more expansions because a sudden and relatively peaceful end to hostilities seems entirely unrealistic.

EDIT: Oh and Sarah, it is np as I've told Bolvar before.

Slowpokeking 12-12-2012 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mshadowz (Post 596913)
The rumour now is that it is Varkas. The facts seem to add up, even though nothing shows them being worgen.

Who is behind them?

Mshadowz 12-12-2012 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slowpokeking (Post 596949)
Who is behind them?

Alpha prime, but Varkas was planning on betraying him.

Thunderbraid 12-13-2012 02:36 AM

I am intensely disagreeing with all this talk that the Titans are the evil ones. This is simply not true. This whole 'order above good' thing is actually a lie. With the exception of the things the Titan's themselves programmed, such as Algalon (Who rebels against his programming, which must have been a feature in the first place).

Also, what a construct is programmed with is not indicative of what the programmers themselves think, there is a limit to how many variables the construct can be programmed to react to.

People often forget one crucial, all-encompassing factor (In fact, three) in their whole 'The Titans are secretly evil or at least want to kill us' theories.

Eonar, Khaz'goroth and Aggrammar.

Eonar is a guardian of life, she protects life, she is responsible for most life on Azeroth. She would object to the point of fighting her fellow Titans to stop a reorigination if she was there herself.

Khaz'goroth created the Earthern, and if he looks at what they've accomplished as dwarves, he may raise objections to reorigination if he himself is present.

Aggrammar's goal is the destruction of Sargeras and the Burning Legion. He would object to reorigination on the basis that Azeroth would be a powerful ally.

Also. The Titans did -not- purge the Cursed Races when the Curse of Flesh first appeared, they did not raise a hand against them, they in fact gave them -land- on Azeroth to inhabit.

Un'goro and Sholazar were specifically created to observe organic life, which is proof that organic life is a part of the Titan's plan.

How exactly do people draw the conclusion that the Pantheon would lunge for the reorigination button if they saw Azeroth, just because a construct who likely did not have all the variables programmed in did? (And even then, again, it rebelled).

The Titans are, despite a seeming obsession with order, creators and creators don't just discard something they may regard fondly. They are also logical and powerful and wise and intelligent. All of the Pantheon together in council would clearly decide to spare Azeroth despite the taint, because they will be capable of analysing the situation.

Leviathon 12-13-2012 02:49 AM

Nope, totally evil.

C9H20 12-13-2012 08:26 AM

@Thunderbraid The following is my take on it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by C9H20 (Post 595936)
When one "zooms out" to the highest possible extent it will become obvious that Aman'thul is evil while Sargeras is good.

I have a feeling Aman'thul is a demiurge like creature who is unknowingly inflicting massive amounts of suffering upon the universe by enforcing his, on a universal scale, shortsighted plan. So great suffering that anything the Burning Legion ever could do wrong in their process of undoing his work is meaningless.

A way for this to be true is if we consider that he has a plan, he is pushing an ordered plan trough his bronze dragon agents and others (presumably), this much we know. But to have an ordered timeline you can't have variables, which clashes with the concept of free will. You could say free will doesn't exist in the warcraft universe but then how come there seems to be a merit based afterlife in it? If AT is pushing an ordered timeline, forcing events to happen, then he could very well be an unwitting monster by sentencing individuals to never ending suffering, individuals who are merely victims of circumstance, circumstances he engineered in his goal to bring "order" trough time and space.

It is possible that Sargeras became aware of this, possibly of an even worse effect AT's crusade is having on the universe, so he decided to smash all of the titan's works with his own crusade, to set things right.

It makes the titans unwittingly evil for going along with Aman'thul's plan, even he could be unaware of his wrongdoings or perhaps unwilling to believe he is wrong.

Thunderbraid 12-13-2012 11:44 AM

The idea of Aman'thul of all beings being mistaken and blind to consequences strikes me as something incredibly silly. Maybe other members of the Pantheon, but Aman'thul? No, not really. It's not something I would enjoy seeing.

I can see it now. Anduin talking down Aman'thul telling him how he is wrong and blind to the suffering he has allowed to happen and Aman'thul bowing to the mortal wisdom o- Wait, no, no, no. That is terrible.

HalfElfDragon 12-13-2012 02:16 PM

I don't think this thread needs to or should exist.

Bolvar 12-13-2012 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HalfElfDragon (Post 597242)
I don't think this thread needs to or should exist.

You could pull a Sarahmoo on it, you know...

GenyaArikado 12-15-2012 08:53 PM

I really hope that we get boss journals for TBC and Wrath bosses. I'd like to know what the fuck is doing the Maiden of Virtue doing in Karazhan for example.

Revenant 12-15-2012 08:57 PM

I don't know. For every good entry, there is a sucky one.

Leviathon 12-15-2012 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenyaArikado (Post 598333)
I really hope that we get boss journals for TBC and Wrath bosses. I'd like to know what the fuck is doing the Maiden of Virtue doing in Karazhan for example.

Only 5 mans are even in there for anything pre cata so I'm not sure if we'll get raid lore.

Millenia 12-15-2012 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leviathon (Post 598342)
Only 5 mans are even in there for anything pre cata so I'm not sure if we'll get raid lore.

I disagree. Blizzard may get to it eventually, probably not in the next expansion, but eventually. I mean, Omacron wants to back there for round 2, no? :P

Erthad 12-15-2012 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HalfElfDragon (Post 597242)
I don't think this thread needs to or should exist.

I think you're wrong. There have been times where I wanted to say something, but I didn't want to make a thread about it. I used the QQ thread but I don't think that was the best thread for it

Jungleluke 12-16-2012 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderbraid (Post 597033)
I am intensely disagreeing with all this talk that the Titans are the evil ones. This is simply not true. This whole 'order above good' thing is actually a lie. With the exception of the things the Titan's themselves programmed, such as Algalon (Who rebels against his programming, which must have been a feature in the first place).

Also, what a construct is programmed with is not indicative of what the programmers themselves think, there is a limit to how many variables the construct can be programmed to react to.

People often forget one crucial, all-encompassing factor (In fact, three) in their whole 'The Titans are secretly evil or at least want to kill us' theories.

Eonar, Khaz'goroth and Aggrammar.

Eonar is a guardian of life, she protects life, she is responsible for most life on Azeroth. She would object to the point of fighting her fellow Titans to stop a reorigination if she was there herself.

Khaz'goroth created the Earthern, and if he looks at what they've accomplished as dwarves, he may raise objections to reorigination if he himself is present.

Aggrammar's goal is the destruction of Sargeras and the Burning Legion. He would object to reorigination on the basis that Azeroth would be a powerful ally.

Also. The Titans did -not- purge the Cursed Races when the Curse of Flesh first appeared, they did not raise a hand against them, they in fact gave them -land- on Azeroth to inhabit.

Un'goro and Sholazar were specifically created to observe organic life, which is proof that organic life is a part of the Titan's plan.

How exactly do people draw the conclusion that the Pantheon would lunge for the reorigination button if they saw Azeroth, just because a construct who likely did not have all the variables programmed in did? (And even then, again, it rebelled).

The Titans are, despite a seeming obsession with order, creators and creators don't just discard something they may regard fondly. They are also logical and powerful and wise and intelligent. All of the Pantheon together in council would clearly decide to spare Azeroth despite the taint, because they will be capable of analysing the situation.

Agreed!

GenyaArikado 12-16-2012 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revenant (Post 598336)
I don't know. For every good entry, there is a sucky one.

It's something

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leviathon (Post 598342)
Only 5 mans are even in there for anything pre cata so I'm not sure if we'll get raid lore.

http://i.imgur.com/KKgBQ.png

MisterCrow 12-18-2012 10:25 AM

There's something screwy about the Mantid.

I'm not sure if they're descended from the Aqir or not (Occam's Razor would dictate that they are, but I haven't seen any confirmation). Regardless, while the Qiraji were totally working for C'Thun, and the Nerubians are/were totally working for Yogg-Saron, the Mantid seem to be working for themselves. If the Sha are fragments of an Old God, it seems strange that the Klaxxi would revolt against the Empress if the Empress is doing the work of the Old Gods.

I suppose I could see the argument where, if the prime directive of the Mantid is "destroy Pandaria for the Old Gods" and Shek'zeer's fear-driven premature swarm is being viewed by the Klaxxi as wasteful and inefficient, then the Klaxxi employing us to end her makes sense. "We can't do our job of destroying the world if she stays in control. You mind helping us fulfill our goal of destroying the world by taking her out? We'll give you shinies."

I guess it's just a little weird that all of these highly-regimented insectoid cultures (the Qiraji, the Nerubians, and the Mantid all have distinct caste systems and have an ultimate order they adhere to) are supposed to be completely under the sway of the Old Gods, who really make no bones about being 100% about chaos and destruction.

When it comes down to it, when the Klaxxi do a face-heel turn and become an enemy faction we have to kill (mirroring the Zandalari, who used to be neutral but then became hostile for rather thin reasons), it just seems a little odd that we, as the characters, are going to roll over and accept that who our enemies are is dependent entirely on which direction the wind is blowing.


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