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Konuvis 08-24-2014 06:21 PM

WoW Dungeon Lore Project
 
I created a monster.....

So hi folks!
I found this forum just today and thought you'd be the perfect bunch to bounce of ideas.

I have been wanting for the past few years to start a video project where I go through every single dungeon in the game, in story order and focusing on the lore surrounding these dungeons.
There are 2 main things (and several people) that motivated me to do this:

1- My own experience during Beta of going to the Deadmines. While the instance was great and I had my 'woah!' moment when seeing the ship for me the thing that was great was realizing that all the Defias you had killed since lvl 6 in Elwynn where in fact former masons who rebuilt Stormwind after the war and got cheated by the Nobles of the city. Hence quests lore not directly linked to the dungeon.
2- Onyxia and AQ. Even though I played the game on and off since the beginning I have never killed her or experienced MC, AQ... and I regret it. So at first I was looking for the Ony attunement chain on YT and it simply doesn't exist (not the whole quest anyway) so I wanted to make those videos now in case some instances are gone in future years (especially with the recent-ish trend for remaking instances, I've already missed the boat on both old SM).

As a result for the past several weeks I have worked on a (pretty massive) spreadsheet (see link below) where I list the quests, quest givers, location all separated by expansion and instance.
I have so far gone all the through to the end raids of Cataclysm however I feel a lot of them are incomplete (some are maybe too complete)

There are a few 'issues' I'm encountering where I may need your help:

- The Instance revamps since Cata. Basically some are easy (SFK, DM, the Zuls) because they were fully updated lore-wise and so shouldn't be played until after ICC. However some are trickier (RF, SM, Sunken Temple, Scholo...) because they have received tweaks but i'm not always sure if the lore has been updated and if not they should all be played before heading to BC.

- None of the Cata raids have a single(!) quest linked to them. That's kind of shocking to me. I guess the lead-in quests for the normal dungeons just apply but still at least a '... Must Die!' would have been nice.

- It's really (really!) hard to know exactly what the prerequisites are.
I wanted to do the quest chains in the zone that are interesting and a good lead-in for their specific dungeons. For example for Auchenai it's nice to do the 'I See Dead Draenei' (A) or the Garrosh/Greatmother (H) series, likewise for Ulduar I think the whole Thorim/Loken chain is a must (plus it's awesome!).
But it's not always clear what questline is worth doing and where you can start it. In Vash'jir it's a must to do 'Defending the Rift' (even though that whole quest has pretty much been removed) but it's also very interesting for lore to do the Battlemaiden quests. for that however you need to start 7 quests earlier with 'Swift Approach' but I'm not entirely certain that I can grab it without doing the 15/20 previous quests.... And then it turns into a Loremaster thing which this is not meant to be.

Overall the biggest task for me is finding more background than the 3-4 quests that have now all been moved inside the instances (kill boss X blah!) but not as many that I have to do the whole zone (which seems very tricky from Cata onward).

Anywho I'm rambling and this would be better served with your input.
So please, fellow lore freaks, comment, advise, critique, let me know if you'd like to see that spreadsheet and help me out! :)

Here is the spreadsheet

Cantus 08-24-2014 06:28 PM

To start, if it's Scourge themed, it's probably been "updated" after a fashion. In essence, it is post ICC, but only in passing and represents a sort of soft-update that ignores the consequences of WotLK without refuting them just for the sake of keeping players moving through it. I do know that RFD will be given a hard update in Warlords of Draenor, but I'm not sure about RFK.

Scholomance is an exception to this rule, where it was given a complete revamp.

Anything Old God related (e.g. BFD) was also soft-updated, but will be getting further updates in WoD. That's what I can say off the top of my head, but I'm sure people who've kept up with the in-game revamps will have a much better set of answers for you.

Konuvis 08-24-2014 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cantus (Post 1191911)
To start, if it's Scourge themed, it's probably been "updated" after a fashion. In essence, it is post ICC, but only in passing and represents a sort of soft-update that ignores the consequences of WotLK without refuting them just for the sake of keeping players moving through it. I do know that RFD will be given a hard update in Warlords of Draenor, but I'm not sure about RFK.

Scholomance is an exception to this rule, where it was given a complete revamp.

Anything Old God related (e.g. BFD) was also soft-updated, but will be getting further updates in WoD. That's what I can say off the top of my head, but I'm sure people who've kept up with the in-game revamps will have a much better set of answers for you.

The upcoming changes to some dungeons in WoD is also a big reason why I want to get started on this asap.

I know about the current updates to RFK and Scholomance but while I know quests have changed and such I don't know if these quests take into account everything up to ICC or are just skin-deep revamps.

PS: I've edited the OP with a link to my spreadsheet so we can have a clearer discussion.

Vineyard 08-25-2014 01:30 AM

@Scholomance: Yes, they do. The quests of Scarlett Halls, Scarlett Monetary and Scholomance now fit with the storyline of Cata Silverpine and Western Plaguelands.

Stockades are also now in line with the Cata Elwynn storyline. (Since Hogger now gets captured and imprisoned in the zone quest.)

As for new Ragefire Chasm:

This is a bit tricky. It was mostly believed to happen Post Cata, however during the attack on Northwatch Hold in "Tides of War", Garrosh was already using the Dark Shamans in his ranks.

Konuvis 08-25-2014 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vineyard (Post 1192074)
@Scholomance: Yes, they do. The quests of Scarlett Halls, Scarlett Monetary and Scholomance now fit with the storyline of Cata Silverpine and Western Plaguelands.

Stockades are also now in line with the Cata Elwynn storyline. (Since Hogger now gets captured and imprisoned in the zone quest.)

As for new Ragefire Chasm:

This is a bit tricky. It was mostly believed to happen Post Cata, however during the attack on Northwatch Hold in "Tides of War", Garrosh was already using the Dark Shamans in his ranks.

Then I need to move Stockade down. Also I need to look up the Elwynn quests leading to Hogger to add them to the spreadsheet.

I haven't read Tides of War yet (currently going through Shattering) but isn't it possible RFC takes place right after Cata launch but before the Theramore bombing?


PS: I added 'Riverpaw Gnoll Bounty (10)' and 'Wanted: "Hogger" (11)' to the Stockade quest list.

Tilgath 08-25-2014 11:37 AM

Ragefire Chasm must be post-Tides of War because it takes place during MoP, which is post-Tides of War. Regarding the Dark Shaman, I think the simplest answer is that the ones in RFC are renegades.

Vineyard 08-25-2014 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tilgath (Post 1192247)
Ragefire Chasm must be post-Tides of War because it takes place during MoP, which is post-Tides of War. Regarding the Dark Shaman, I think the simplest answer is that the ones in RFC are renegades.

Does it really take place during MoP storywise? There is no hint in the dungeon journal for this. (Only the mentioning of the fall of the Twilight Hammer.)

New-UBRS for example, while a WoD dungeon, takes places most likely before WoD, because a LV90 (similar to Theramore's Fall) is part of the Pre Event aka the First Invasion of the Iron Horde.

Tilgath 08-25-2014 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vineyard (Post 1192270)
Does it really take place during MoP storywise? There is no hint in the dungeon journal for this. (Only the mentioning of the fall of the Twilight Hammer.)

New-UBRS for example, while a WoD dungeon, takes places most likely before WoD, because a LV90 (similar to Theramore's Fall) is part of the Pre Event aka the First Invasion of the Iron Horde.

The difference is that RFC wasn't part of the pre-MoP event like the Fall of Theramore was, or how the new UBRS is part of the pre-WoD event. We know it definitely takes place post-Cata. Going through the quest text, dungeon journal entries, and boss emotes, there's nothing that indicates it takes place prior to the expansion it appears in.

Vineyard 08-25-2014 12:48 PM

My main issue is that it has to take place vastly before the creation of the Underhold.

The Underhold was already finished during the Darkspear Rebellion, since Secrets of Ragefire indicates this.

Tilgath 08-25-2014 01:12 PM

Agreed, but we have no way of knowing how little or long it took to build the Underhold. Lion's Landing and Domination Point went up in no time at all. We also know that the Pandaria campaign lasted for months, so if RFC takes place during the opening days of MoP, that leaves plenty of time for Garrosh to take over the place. In fact, you could say the players were responsible for the first step in the Underhold's construction by clearing out the former residents.

Valtheria 08-25-2014 03:16 PM

It's possible that the updated Vanilla dungeons could take place during Cataclysm's timeline. They already retconned pandaren monk trainers into pre-MoP content, so they could have taught the Scarlets at any time, and their downfall could take place right after we last see Voss in Tirisfal.

Likewise, Scholomance almost certainly takes place in Cata right after Western Plaguelands. RFC could take place before Tides of War, there's no real reason to discount it just because it was added in a certain expansion.

Revenant 08-25-2014 06:44 PM

Tides of War came out four days before the MoP patch, but the new RFC only makes sense as a prequel to the book. In the instance the Dark Shaman are viewed as Horde defectors, while in the book a massive Horde army knows about them (though Blizzard has a weird relationship with in-universe common knowledge). You can say that Xorenth was misleading the player, because he was, but I don't know why he would cover up something that would have been known by the time of the book.

Konuvis 08-25-2014 08:51 PM

I knew I found the right place for my project when I came here :D

I've updated the master list to have RFC between Dragon Soul and Temple of jade Serpent.

Wailing Caverns
Stormwind Stockade
Blackfathom Depths
Gnomeregan
Razorfen Kraul
Maraudon
Uldaman
Dire Maul
Razorfen Downs
Stratholme
Zul'Farrak
Blackrock Depths
Sunken Temple
Lower Blackrock Spire
Upper Blackrock Spire
Molten Core
Blackwing Lair
Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj
Temple of Ahn'Qiraj
Hellfire Ramparts
Blood Furnace
Slave Pens
Underbog
Mana-Tombs
Auchenai Crypts
Sethekk Halls
Escape From Durnholde Keep
The Steamvault
Shattered Halls
Shadow Labyrinth
The Mechanar
Botanica
Arcatraz
Opening the Dark Portal
Karazhan
Gruul's Lair
Magtheridon's Lair
Serpentshrine Cavern
The Eye
Battle for Mount Hyjal
Black Temple
Magisters' Terrace
Sunwell Plateau
Utgarde Keep
The Nexus
Azjol-Nerub
Ahn'kahet
Drak'Tharon Keep
The Violet Hold
Gundrak
Halls of Stone
Occulus
Halls of Lightning
Utgarde Pinnacle
Culling of Stratholme
Naxxramas
Obisidian Sanctum
Eye of Eternity
Vault of Archavon
Ulduar
Trial of the .
Onyxia's Lair
Forge of Souls
Pit of Saron
Halls of Reflection
Icecrown Citadel
Ruby Sanctum
Throne of the Tides
Blackrock Caverns
The Stonecore
The Vortex Pinnacle
Lost City of Tol'vir
Grim Batol
Halls of Origination
The Deadmines
Shadowfang Keep
Baradin Hold
The Bastion of Twilight
Throne of the Four Winds
Blackwing Descent
Zul'Aman
Zul'Gurub
Firelands
End Time
Well of Eternity
Hour of Twilight
Dragon Soul
Ragefire Chasm
Temple of the Jade Serpent
Stormstout Brewery
Mogu'shan Palace
Shado-Pan Monastery
Siege of Niuzao Temple
Gate of the Setting Sun
Scarlet Halls
Scarlet Monastery
Scholomance
Mogu'shan Vaults
Heart of Fear
Terrace of Endless Spring
Throne of Thunder
Siege of Orgrimmar

Konuvis 08-25-2014 09:00 PM

So I'd like your help in finding quests to tie in with dungeons. I plan to start recording tomorrow (probably an introduction/proof of concept video at first) so I want to get the Vanilla instances ready.

Stockade we've covered and I just added the 2 Westbrook Garrison quests in there. Seems enough since Stockade is not heavy on lore.

Wailing Caverns I only really have the in-instance quests right plus a pretty probably usless one form Darkmoon Sayge's Fortune and the lead-in
Disciples of Naralex (16) form Tonga Runetotem in the Crossroads but it's Horde only so my Dwarf won't be able to take it.
Are their any other quests you consider important for WC?

Likewise BFD i just have the lead-in from Blackfathom Camp and the ones inside.
It's been a long while since I visited Ashenvale (before Cata) and i know the zone's changed a lot but BFD as remained stagnant, still I think there's probably 1 or 2 interesting quests in Zoram Strand.

Gnomeregan is confusing to me. I heard their was a whole 'retake Gnomeregan' event in Cata or MoP but the instance seems to have not changed.
I also don't recall many lead-in quests for this instance but I haven't been in it since Beta so...... :P

Tilgath 08-25-2014 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valtheria (Post 1192386)
RFC could take place before Tides of War, there's no real reason to discount it just because it was added in a certain expansion.

In my view you need a reason to discount it not taking place during MoP. It was MoP content that specifically takes place after Cata, so the burden of proof is on the idea that it is retroactive content.

It seems that the only thing indicating that for some is the presence of the Dark Shaman, and the fact that Garrosh used Dark Shaman among his forces in Tides of War. But that relies upon the idea that all Dark Shaman are part of the same group. It's very much possible that some Dark Shaman joined Garrosh, while others went rogue in RFC trying to create a new Twilight's Hammer.

In the absence of any solid information making the instance retroactive, the default would have to be it takes place during MoP, if only in the earliest portion.

Valtheria 08-25-2014 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tilgath (Post 1192582)
In my view you need a reason to discount it not taking place during MoP. It was MoP content that specifically takes place after Cata, so the burden of proof is on the idea that it is retroactive content.

It seems that the only thing indicating that for some is the presence of the Dark Shaman, and the fact that Garrosh used Dark Shaman among his forces in Tides of War. But that relies upon the idea that all Dark Shaman are part of the same group. It's very much possible that some Dark Shaman joined Garrosh, while others went rogue in RFC trying to create a new Twilight's Hammer.

In the absence of any solid information making the instance retroactive, the default would have to be it takes place during MoP, if only in the earliest portion.

It depends on whether you count MoP as beginning at Theramore, at the discovery of Pandaria, or after Deathwing's defeat.

Tilgath 08-25-2014 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valtheria (Post 1192586)
It depends on whether you count MoP as beginning at Theramore, at the discovery of Pandaria, or after Deathwing's defeat.

Personally, I consider MoP as starting after Tides of War. I'd specifically place RFC as part of the Alliance-Horde war, pre-Pandaria.

Vineyard 08-26-2014 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tilgath (Post 1192582)
It seems that the only thing indicating that for some is the presence of the Dark Shaman, and the fact that Garrosh used Dark Shaman among his forces in Tides of War. But that relies upon the idea that all Dark Shaman are part of the same group. It's very much possible that some Dark Shaman joined Garrosh, while others went rogue in RFC trying to create a new Twilight's Hammer.

The Quests Text says that they were months down there, before they were discovered. Also, Xorenth was present, who later became a Dark Shaman.

Imo. the RFC Dark Shaman, who were former THs, were ALL wiped out. But Garrosh let his loyalists study their magics and use them for his True Horde.

There is also the possibility that these Dark Shman were working for Garrosh after all.

http://wowpedia.org/Quest:A_New_Enemy_%28Horde%29

Quote:

Good work, <name>. This will make it very clear how Garrosh is going to deal with failures...
The Black Harvest Warlocks also studied TH techniques, so why shouldn't Garrosh and his allies...


Edit:
Quote:

Gnomeregan is confusing to me. I heard their was a whole 'retake Gnomeregan' event in Cata or MoP but the instance seems to have not changed.
The Upper City was retaken during the Event, but the instance itself was mostly untouched (basicly for gameplay reasons).

You basicly fight Thermaplugg and his thuggs with the help of a gnomish A-Team Parody...

Konuvis 08-26-2014 06:42 AM

I think we can agree that if we don't take into account the books then can fit between Dragon Soul and the first dungeons of MoP.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Vineyard (Post 1192644)
Edit:

The Upper City was retaken during the Event, but the instance itself was mostly untouched (basicly for gameplay reasons).

You basicly fight Thermaplugg and his thuggs with the help of a gnomish A-Team Parody...

So then the outside quests don't really match the inside of the instance?
So far I had compiled these:

Home Sweet Gnome (26) Skuerto Refuge Point (Arathi Highlands)
--> The G-Team (27) Murd Doc Inside Instance
--> The G-Team (28) B.E. Barechus Inside Instance
--> The G-Team (29) Face Inside Instance
The Sparklematic 5200! (30) The Sparklematic 5200 Inside Instance
More Sparklematic Action (30) The Sparklematic 5200 Inside Instance
Grim-Encrusted Ring (34) Grim-Encrusted Ring Dark Iron Agent drop
--> Return of the Ring (34) The Sparklematic 5200 Inside Instance
--> Gnome Improvement (35) Talvash del Kissel Ironforge (Mystic Ward)

Tilgath 08-26-2014 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konuvis (Post 1192712)
So then the outside quests don't really match the inside of the instance?

I think they match. Operation: Gnomeregan happened back in WotLK. The Cata revamp for the Gnome starting area takes place post-Operation: Gnomeregan. The quests inside the Gnomeregan instance presumably take place after the Gnome starting experience.

BTW, there's another lead-in quest to Gnomeregan that you get down in Stranglethorn.

Konuvis 08-26-2014 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tilgath (Post 1192989)
I think they match. Operation: Gnomeregan happened back in WotLK. The Cata revamp for the Gnome starting area takes place post-Operation: Gnomeregan. The quests inside the Gnomeregan instance presumably take place after the Gnome starting experience.

BTW, there's another lead-in quest to Gnomeregan that you get down in Stranglethorn.

Do tell! that is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for.

BTW folks I just recorded my proof of concept video, editing right now and will post in a bit.

Tilgath 08-26-2014 04:49 PM

http://wowpedia.org/Quest:Exploring_Gnomeregan

Konuvis 08-26-2014 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tilgath (Post 1193017)

Oh right, but that one and Home Sweet Gnome are mutually exclusive so I can't do both.

Konuvis 08-27-2014 08:35 AM

Alright lore freaks. Live or die I've posted my concept video on YT.

It's a bit rough, too many 'hmm' 'you know' and drags on a bit. This one was more free flowing but for the specific episodes I'll be more focused and will most likely have a script to help along.

PS: I hate my freaking accent :glare:

Konuvis 08-27-2014 04:22 PM

Any tips on Wailing Caverns quests?

I've been searching for a few hours and can't really find anything other than what's inside the dungeon.
Leaders of the Fang seemed interesting but it's been removed and there doesn't seem to be anything of note aside.


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