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Lord Eliphas 06-01-2013 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chef (Post 835877)
What you said is true.

Nine years after its introduction, la´citÚ was explicitly stated in the second article of the then Turkish constitution on February 5, 1937. The current Constitution of 1982 neither recognizes an official religion nor promotes any. This includes Islam, to which at least nominally more than 99% of its citizens subscribe.

What confuses me most is that all of this violence stemmed from a group of people who occupied a park in Istanbul because they didn't want one of the few last green spaces in the city to be demolished. It wasn't Occupy Wall Street or anything. This was basically the police and the military responding radically towards an environmental protest the likes of Greenpeace would have done.

We're talking about a state that puts down Kurdish groups that want autonomy like it's a full blown war.

Of fucking course the state of Turkey would act this way - what do they have to lose? US and Western Europe give them a blind eye to everything they do.

They still pander about the Armenian Genocide and "whether or not it actually existed."

Chef 06-01-2013 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Eliphas (Post 836288)
We're talking about a state that puts down Kurdish groups that want autonomy like it's a full blown war.

Of fucking course the state of Turkey would act this way - what do they have to lose? US and Western Europe give them a blind eye to everything they do.

They still pander about the Armenian Genocide and "whether or not it actually existed."

We're talking about nation-states here, pal. Most countries in the world aren't exactly saints when it comes to geopolitics and protecting their national interests.

I could go on talking about the US actively supporting dictatorships in the Cold War or the atrocities committed by European nations during colonisation, but no, it'll be too easy.

PajamaSalad 06-01-2013 05:23 PM

I have American friends in Turkey and there is a possibility that I will be sent there in the next year or so. I hope human suffering is kept to an absolute minimum.

SmokeBlader 06-01-2013 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pajamasalad (Post 836583)
I hope human suffering is kept to an absolute minimum.

Not a chance. A student is now blind because a cop sprayed him in the face. The spray melted his contact lenses.

HlaaluStyle 06-01-2013 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pajamasalad (Post 836583)
I have American friends in Turkey and there is a possibility that I will be sent there in the next year or so. I hope human suffering is kept to an absolute minimum.

I doubt it will escalate too far; the Turkish state is repressive but stable. That said, I don't imagine they'll be very humane to the protestors. You shouldn't have anything to worry about, however.

I actually have an American friend who lives in Istanbul as well, though Facebook updates indicate that he's doing just fine.

Kir the Wizard 06-02-2013 02:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Eliphas (Post 836288)
They still pander about the Armenian Genocide and "whether or not it actually existed."

It's more like "can we call it genocide if they were targeted for political, not strictly ethnic, reasons?"

The modern governments really don't like admitting genocides past historical regimes in their country did, do they?

Lord Eliphas 06-03-2013 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard (Post 837118)
It's more like "can we call it genocide if they were targeted for political, not strictly ethnic, reasons?"

The modern governments really don't like admitting genocides past historical regimes in their country did, do they?

That'd, ironically, could be used to defend the Nazis if to use Godwin's Law.

Because they would specifically go against partisans, increase the destruction of the occupational forces as a means of "anti-insurgent" campaign.

They did this, especially, to any jews they found in the east during those 'campaigns'.

But, of course not. Yet the Senate panders on whether or not (US Senate by the by) the Turks did it.

Even now the Turks are being pretty repressive about protests. And yet there is no world reaction of shock and awe that Syria and Libya get, yet Bahrain and Turkey don't get it. All the while Turkey has an Islamist party ("Justice and Devemoment") in power, and making sure the secular elements are repressed.

Man. Triple Standards.

Omacron 06-03-2013 08:06 PM

Because even though the protests in Turkey are being repressed, nobody's being executed. The US doesn't really need to get involved.

Lord Eliphas 06-03-2013 08:25 PM

And yet we get involved in Syria an Libya.

With forces that used chlorine gas, possibly used Sarin gas, executed African migrants and killed any black-person for the sole reason of being black (using the pretense that they're mercenaries?), has been dedicated t making women lose their rights in Libya, and can't even control the fucking militas.

Hardly an affair I'd like the US to be involved in anyways. If we were involved in Bahrain, our tanks and Saudi tanks would be rolling over the protestors.

Chef 06-04-2013 05:36 PM

For all of you who haven't a clue of what's going on in Turkey.


Lord Eliphas 06-04-2013 08:07 PM

It obviously has it's bias and bullshit.

For what it's worth, it's decent.

But that's it. Not Great. Not too shitty.

Chef 06-05-2013 02:08 AM

By now you should know that in this day and age it's impossible to find anything that's truly not biased; everyone has a stance and a point of view, whether you like it or not.

C9H20 06-05-2013 05:01 AM

Meh I am wary of Erdogan and his Islamist "reforms," I really hope he goes out of power over this.

The last thing my people need is to deal with Turks, again.

Kir the Wizard 06-05-2013 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C9H20 (Post 843435)
Meh I am wary of Erdogan and his Islamist "reforms," I really hope he goes out of power over this.

The last thing my people need is to deal with Turks, again.

Why would your people have to deal with Turks? Do you seriously believe he'd start reconquering the Ottoman Empire? ;)

PajamaSalad 06-05-2013 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chef (Post 843174)
By now you should know that in this day and age it's impossible to find anything that's truly not biased; everyone has a stance and a point of view, whether you like it or not.

Is that why we make a super military and make sure our preferences reign supreme?

C9H20 06-05-2013 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard (Post 843977)
Why would your people have to deal with Turks? Do you seriously believe he'd start reconquering the Ottoman Empire? ;)

Call me cynical but after all the shit we've been through nothing would surprise me, and history has taught me that if there is even a remote possibility of something happening we'd best start preparing for it, if you know what I mean.

Kir the Wizard 06-06-2013 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C9H20 (Post 844625)
Call me cynical but after all the shit we've been through nothing would surprise me, and history has taught me that if there is even a remote possibility of something happening we'd best start preparing for it, if you know what I mean.

I think today we have a lot more new potential threats than a bunch empire-fappers thinking about "the good old days".

Not on the Balkans, at least.

Korath 06-12-2013 02:44 AM

So, the Public Television in Greece was shutted down, officialy because it was too opaque and a waste of money. Roughly 3000 people lost their jobs in one day thanks to the Tro´ka and only private channels remain, which mean the death of true journalism and full power to the lobbies.

Once again, E.U prove that it isn't a democratic organization but an oligarchic one were money rule everything.

Magistrix Verdande 06-12-2013 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omacron (Post 840220)
Because even though the protests in Turkey are being repressed, nobody's being executed. The US doesn't really need to get involved.

Ah, this syntax. Like a summer breeze.

Omacron 06-12-2013 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande (Post 858836)
Ah, this syntax. Like a summer breeze.

If the US got involved every time people got pissed at their government, rightfully or not, we wouldn't have time to run our own.

Magistrix Verdande 06-12-2013 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omacron (Post 858857)
If the US got involved every time people got pissed at their government, rightfully or not, we wouldn't have time to run our own.

It's true. You are so wise. Tell me more.

Kir the Wizard 06-12-2013 06:05 AM

Ukraine is finally getting rid of conscription, it seems! The first law regarding the military commissariats has passed and the Ministry of Defense have officially stated that autumn of 2013 will be the last conscription (and in 2014 the last conscripts will serve their duty), after which some reform regarding contracted military will pass.

Ashendant 06-12-2013 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korath (Post 858801)
So, the Public Television in Greece was shutted down, officialy because it was too opaque and a waste of money. Roughly 3000 people lost their jobs in one day thanks to the Tro´ka and only private channels remain, which mean the death of true journalism and full power to the lobbies.

Once again, E.U prove that it isn't a democratic organization but an oligarchic one were money rule everything.

I heard the shutdown was temporary. And I heard that channel was extremely wasteful. I'm also not sure if the Troika is directly responsible for its temporary shutdown.

RobLore 06-12-2013 10:56 AM

Meh, I don't really mind public television being shut down. Usually, they're not any less objective than anyone else and they often (unfairly) compete with commercial channels since they can buy the best tv series etc with tax money.

Shaman 06-12-2013 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobLore (Post 859339)
Meh, I don't really mind public television being shut down. Usually, they're not any less objective than anyone else and they often (unfairly) compete with commercial channels since they can buy the best tv series etc with tax money.

PBS and the BBC are ranked amongst the best journalistic institutions in the world partly because they don't have to sell themselves out to sponsors.


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