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-   -   Yakisoba Hungering - The International Games Thread (http://forums.scrollsoflore.com/showthread.php?t=30985)

Ashendant 09-21-2012 07:58 PM

Yakisoba Hungering - The International Games Thread
 
This is a thread to discuss politics from all nations with the exception of the United States of America. (As Cantus said he would keep it clean)

I'll start a topic about the Catalan Independence.

Here are some informative links first.

"Catalan separatism" in Wikipedia
"Some 1.5 million people have been taking part in Catalonia's annual independence rally in Barcelona." by BBC news
"Crisis fuels Catalan independence push" by Irish Times
"Catalonia rallies for independence on �Catalan National Day" by Washington Post

What is your position/opinion on situations like this where regions want independence from their country?

I personally think that it's foolish and that these people are depowering themselves for a vague and vain sense of nationalism(regionalism???). Kosovo is a lesson is a good lesson of this with their separation from Serbia causing vast problems on international diplomacy with countries like Spain have to deny considering Kosovo a country because it would legitimize independence movements within their their own country.

But then again it's their democratic wish, can we truly deny them that just because "we know better"? This also makes me kinda of a hypocrite because i fully support the democratic wishes of the people from Falkland to remain in the British nation.

So what's your opinion?(sorry for any grammatical problems)

Omacron 09-21-2012 08:03 PM

Who do you think is a better fuck: Rama IX or Margaret Thatcher?


I get the impression that Rama IX is a screamer.

Ashendant 09-21-2012 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omacron (Post 561243)
Who do you think is a better fuck: Rama IX or Margaret Thatcher?


I get the impression that Rama IX is a screamer.

Why choose? Both is always the solution.

EDIT: On the other hand Thatcher is a chemist and could probably make some good hallucinogenics.

HalfElfDragon 09-21-2012 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashendant (Post 561241)
But then again it's their democratic wish, can we truly deny them that just because "we know better"?

No. If people want to be independent, then they have the right to be. Let them consider the consequences and then deal with them as they arise.

If the Catalonians want independence, they should have it.

Omacron 09-21-2012 08:22 PM

As someone who comes from a Catalan family, let me say that it's not a good idea for those savages to rule themselves.

Shaman 09-21-2012 08:23 PM

A government's mandate to rule comes from the consent of the governed, so if people want independence from their country then they should of course be allowed to have it. The self-determination of small peoples is an important right to defend in world politics.

Dithon1 09-21-2012 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarahmoo (Post 561252)
A government's mandate to rule comes from the consent of the governed, so if people want independence from their country then they should of course be allowed to have it. The self-determination of small peoples is an important right to defend in world politics.

Pretty much this. Let them sink of swim on their own merit if they're so keen to give it a try. Spain's a mess as it is anyway, so they might (emphasis on "might") do well.

Omacron 09-21-2012 08:34 PM

So how do you non-Americans view the American civil war and secession of the CSA?

Timolas 09-21-2012 08:35 PM

If the Confederates had won, the world would probably be more interesting.

Dithon1 09-21-2012 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timolas (Post 561262)
If the Confederates had won, the world would probably be more interesting.

If I told you I had a time machine, what would you say?

Omacron 09-21-2012 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dithon1 (Post 561264)
If I told you I had a time machine, what would you say?

"Why wasn't Hitler successfully assassinated?"

Dithon1 09-21-2012 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omacron (Post 561267)
"Why wasn't Hitler successfully assassinated?"

Because apparently Sean Connery isn't as good with a gun as the movies make him out to be.

Shamu 09-21-2012 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omacron (Post 561267)
"Why wasn't Hitler successfully assassinated?"

You should have seen the guy Hitler replaced.

Fojar 09-21-2012 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarahmoo (Post 561252)
A government's mandate to rule comes from the consent of the governed, so if people want independence from their country then they should of course be allowed to have it. The self-determination of small peoples is an important right to defend in world politics.

Then what's your position on Quebec separation?

The majority doesn't want to separate but in this case the majority constitutes 51% of the population as of the 1995 referendum.

Ganishka 09-21-2012 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omacron (Post 561267)
"Why wasn't Hitler successfully assassinated?"

Because he was never in a room with Christopher Lee.

Shaman 09-21-2012 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fojar (Post 561274)
Then what's your position on Quebec separation?

The majority doesn't want to separate but in this case the majority constitutes 51% of the population as of the 1995 referendum.

Well in that case the debate has reached no clear consensus yet and so the conversation needs to continue until one of the positions has reached a clear majority (like 80%-ish). More people need to be convinced to one side or the other before the question can be appropriately settled. And if Quebec does reach the point where most people living there don't want to be part of Canada any longer, then the pro-Canadian minority should of course be protected by that new state.

Fojar 09-21-2012 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarahmoo (Post 561278)
Well in that case the debate has reached no clear consensus yet and so the conversation needs to continue until one of the positions has reached a clear majority (like 80%-ish). More people need to be convinced to one side or the other before the question can be appropriately settled. And if Quebec does reach the point where most people living there don't want to be part of Canada any longer, then the pro-Canadian minority should of course be protected by that new state.

It's even more complex because Northern Quebec is largely populated by Aboriginal populations whose treaties are binding to the government of Canada, not the government of Quebec. If Quebec separates (which I doubt it will, 1995 was their chance and the Quebecois nationalist population has been shrinking dramatically since) then what becomes of them?

Shroombie 09-21-2012 09:53 PM

Eh, I'm of the opinion that all people are entitled to be ruled fairly and justly, I think its kind of stupid when it comes to them wanting to be their own country just for nationalistic reasons.

I mean, if you care that much about where your leader came from, instead how they're doing as a head of state, then you should probably look at yourself a little closer.

Magistrix Verdande 09-21-2012 09:54 PM

What a lovely word to pronounce.

Quebec. Kweh-beck. Kae'baeckeh.

Try it. Taste it, and spit it back out.

Delightful.

Omacron 09-21-2012 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande (Post 561294)
What a lovely word to pronounce.

Quebec. Kweh-beck. Kae'baeckeh.

Try it. Taste it, and spit it back out.

Delightful.

Tastes like leather dipped in maple syrup.

Tilgath 09-22-2012 12:25 AM

This is due largely to my general ignorance of Canadia, but whenever I read/hear about Quebec, I want to slap it lightly across the face. Sounds like a land of douchebags.

Millenia 09-22-2012 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fojar (Post 561288)
It's even more complex because Northern Quebec is largely populated by Aboriginal populations whose treaties are binding to the government of Canada, not the government of Quebec. If Quebec separates (which I doubt it will, 1995 was their chance and the Quebecois nationalist population has been shrinking dramatically since) then what becomes of them?

I'd say separation should happen by.... the Canadian equivalent of counties, I suppose. That is, if Northern Quebec wants to stay with Canada, it'll stay, but Southern Quebec gets to be its new country and all.

That said, usually successor countries all inherit whatever treaties/debts/whatever they had before (though split if appropriate, of course), and so the treaties would apply to Quebec.

Fojar 09-22-2012 01:24 AM

Quote:

I'd say separation should happen by.... the Canadian equivalent of counties, I suppose. That is, if Northern Quebec wants to stay with Canada, it'll stay, but Southern Quebec gets to be its new country and all.

That said, usually successor countries all inherit whatever treaties/debts/whatever they had before (though split if appropriate, of course), and so the treaties would apply to Quebec.
That's not really how the aboriginals view it though. Heck, their treaties are technically with the British crown and they're now with the government of Canada because the British crown is still Canada's ceremonial head of state. They have no interest at all being caught up in Quebec's nationalistic hissy-fit.

Plus, Southern Quebec has a very distinct divide as well. Rural areas you're more likely to see nationalism, but in metropolitan Montreal, they're firmly against it, and even in the provincial capital of Quebec City opinion is split. Separation would screw over far too many people in Quebec.

Heck, the reason why Toronto ended up eclipsing Montreal was because the big businesses all fled Quebec to Toronto during the sovereignty movement, causing an economic slump in Quebec that they have yet to recover from. The Bank of Montreal's operational headquarters is in Toronto. Around this time, funnily enough, is when the nationalists changed their tone from "sovereignty" to "sovereignty association" which would grant them political autonomy but they would remain part of the Canadian economy. It was a childish farce.

Grunn 09-22-2012 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashendant (Post 561241)
This is a thread to discuss politics from all nations with the exception of the United States of America. (As Cantus said he would keep it clean)

I'll start a topic about the Catalan Independence.

/snip

So what's your opinion?(sorry for any grammatical problems)

The sooner Madrid stops stalling and starts talking about Spanish regional autonomy the better.
With regards to the argument that the smaller states of spain would carry less weight than the current state, what sort of power do you think the Spanish goverment has now?

Spain has been poor and lacking on the international stage for the last 200 years, If the Basques and the Catalans were seeking independence from Britain France or Germany, you may have a point, but Spain is small fry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omacron (Post 561259)
So how do you non-Americans view the American civil war and secession of the CSA?

With complete indifference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omacron (Post 561267)
"Why wasn't Hitler successfully assassinated?"

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/kill_hitler.png

BaronGrackle 09-22-2012 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omacron (Post 561259)
So how do you non-Americans view the American civil war and secession of the CSA?

This is exactly what I was thinking when I read the preceding posts. There are more pro-Confederates in the world than I thought. :rolleyes:

I guess it's calm enough in the United Kingdom, since Scotland thinks it already is a country. :P

(Half-joking.)

Lon-ami 09-22-2012 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashendant (Post 561241)
This is a thread to discuss politics from all nations with the exception of the United States of America. (As Cantus said he would keep it clean)

I'll start a topic about the Catalan Independence.

Here are some informative links first.

"Catalan separatism" in Wikipedia
"Some 1.5 million people have been taking part in Catalonia's annual independence rally in Barcelona." by BBC news
"Crisis fuels Catalan independence push" by Irish Times
"Catalonia rallies for independence on ‘Catalan National Day" by Washington Post

What is your position/opinion on situations like this where regions want independence from their country?

I personally think that it's foolish and that these people are depowering themselves for a vague and vain sense of nationalism(regionalism???). Kosovo is a lesson is a good lesson of this with their separation from Serbia causing vast problems on international diplomacy with countries like Spain have to deny considering Kosovo a country because it would legitimize independence movements within their their own country.

But then again it's their democratic wish, can we truly deny them that just because "we know better"? This also makes me kinda of a hypocrite because i fully support the democratic wishes of the people from Falkland to remain in the British nation.

So what's your opinion?(sorry for any grammatical problems)

Don't believe stupid propaganda, 1.5 millions? lol, no.

These kind of things (demonstrations, asking impossible stuff to cry about the evil repression...) are typical from the nationalists. Quick fact: They don't want independence. They want privileges. They use this as a menace, a blackmail.

Still, mark my words. The Catalonian politicians have brainwashed their citizens too much, and they could reach a no-return point soon. One of the main things they complain about is that, for them to be independent, all of Spain must vote to decide or to let them decide. Obviously, they benefited from being part of Spain, and they can't just leave, taking away inversions from the entire country.

The problem is a lot of people is fed up. Fed up of the nationalists fucking up the parliament, fed up of the constant menaces and demands that shit on every other Spanish autonomous community, fed up on insults from Catalonian politicians, fed up on lies of the rest of the country stealing their money, when Catalonia gets back more than what they give. The nationalists even suggested removing all the autonomous communities except theirs.

Some people is starting to support letting them leave, for a simple reason: They're tired. It's a basic "fuck them and let them rot, just leave us alone".

In the end, all the Spanish nationalisms are about the money. They want control, they want more benefits, they want to parasite the rest of Spain, claiming 1000 years old kingdoms craps. We feed them, again and again, so they would shut up, but they know no limits.

There's a photo that defines how brainwashed and fucked up Catalonian nationalists are right now. It shows some guys, on the latest demonstration, carrying a big banner, saying "Catalunya, nou estat d'Europa".

And those idiots really believe it, even when the European Union has expulsion laws for seceded countries, and some high European authorities have made emphasis on them lately. Not to talk about how France and the United Kingdom would rape the shit out of them to avoid any sort of contagion.

But well, they'll keep saying "Madrit ens roba" (Madrid, the capital, steals from us) while the nationalist government cuts health and education, but keeps active hundreds of official cars, 50+ embassies, 7 TV channels... and gives millions to "defend" the culture of Catalonia.

Everyone I know agreed on the same thing when they started organizing the 11S demonstration. The way the TV was manipulated, and how they hired buses with public money to bring people to the demonstration, is just a mirror of the fascist Spanish dictatorship. And the way the information is manipulated, and how they repeat lies and lies until everyone believes them, would make Goebbels proud.

But our government is retarded, so they won't draw any limits, and we'll probably keep talking about this shit instead of the crisis...

Chef 09-22-2012 05:51 PM

I'll tell you guys what's my stance on nationalism and separatism.

First of all, I fully believe that it is the right for every ethnic group and nation to choose for themselves who they want to be governed by. No other ethnic group or political force has the right to impose their authority upon people who don't identify themselves with their rulers. Saying otherwise would be hypocritical, as my nation has struggled for independence from our colonial rulers in the past.

Despiite this, for those people who do feel the need to be freed from the shackles of their foreign rulers, one must ask the simple question: why? Why is it that I need to create my own nation? Will separatism bring more good or harm to my people?

There are many ethnic groups in the world who are being racially prejudiced, oppressed and treated as second-class citizens by the majority. We've seen countless racially-motivated aggressions and murders in the news that I don't feel the need to give you examples. However, there are other ethnic groups who just happen to have different traditions and speak a different language than the rest of the people of the country they live in. They live a perfectly normal life and are not abused or prejudiced in any way, yet there are many who feel that their cultural pride and heritage must come above anything else; that their identity calls out to them to freedom.

If cultural pride is the only reason that you can bring forward to justify your desire for independence, you're just an arrogant person and you're just asking for trouble. In fact, that's what nationalist politicians do to get attention. They speak out blissful words of independence and freedom, but in reality they only do so to get people to vote for them; in essence, they're no more than populists trying to gain the support of their people. It's even stupider if you consider the economical climate that the world is in now. If a region or state decides to separate itself from the country, what economic benefits will it bring you?

Lastly, I'd also like to point out that multicultural societies of multiple ethnic groups living together already exist. Switzerland is a perfect example: neither the French, German or Italian-speaking regions want to be a separate country because of cultural or linguistic reasons.

I'd also like to provide you with a map of all of Europe's supposed "minorities". Imagine if they all wanted independence, Europe would be a fucking mess:

http://www.eurominority.eu/images/ba...-index-eng.jpg

Bolvar 09-22-2012 06:03 PM

I'll just leave this here.

Chef 09-22-2012 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grunn (Post 561359)
Spain has been poor and lacking on the international stage for the last 200 years, If the Basques and the Catalans were seeking independence from Britain France or Germany, you may have a point, but Spain is small fry.

Which would make Basques and Catalans even smaller, useless fries.

Ganishka 09-22-2012 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolvar (Post 561592)

You'd think Muslims would be fine with the Holocaust, after all, it was just "Zionist Oppressors" getting killed.

Than there's this.

Quote:

It is not surprising that Germans are wondering what is going on in their country today. Many realize that multiculturalism is a destructive, failed policy and that they are destined to experience many more such violent, “culturally enriching” moments in the future.

Aneurysm 09-22-2012 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chef (Post 561587)

Scania for the Scanes!!

Chef 09-22-2012 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aneurysm (Post 561610)
Scania for the Scanes!!

Swedish race is master race.

Fojar 09-22-2012 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ganishka (Post 561608)
You'd think Muslims would be fine with the Holocaust, after all, it was just "Zionist Oppressors" getting killed.

Than there's this.

This is the wrong thread for this shit. Take it to one of the three conservative wank-threads we already have.

Cantus 09-22-2012 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ganishka (Post 561608)
You'd think Muslims would be fine with the Holocaust, after all, it was just "Zionist Oppressors" getting killed.

Than there's this.

I'm going to put this to you as simply as possible. Stay the fuck out of this thread, on pain of suspension. If you want to express hate speech, go to storm front or some other racist board. You do it here, I fuck you up.

Omacron 09-22-2012 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cantus (Post 561614)
I'm going to put this to you as simply as possible. Stay the fuck out of this thread, on pain of suspension. If you want to express hate speech, go to storm front or some other racist board. You do it here, I fuck you up.


Aneurysm 09-22-2012 07:14 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...onist_hoax.jpg

Cantus 09-22-2012 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omacron (Post 561616)

Go wank it to your uranium enriched real doll, mother fucker.

Omacron 09-22-2012 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cantus (Post 561621)
Go wank it to your uranium enriched real doll, mother fucker.

Learn to take a complement, dude.

Fojar 09-22-2012 07:19 PM

I think that Omacron should be banned. Dude has REALLY overstayed his welcome.

Omacron 09-22-2012 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fojar (Post 561627)
I think that Omacron should be banned. Dude has REALLY overstayed his welcome.

I've got a hotline to CDev. Fuck with me and I'll convince them to sabotage the lore.


Elune being a naaru is just the first step.


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