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Old 05-30-2017, 03:03 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
To be fair, even in the original Starcraft, the use of colours as factions was pretty underwhelming. Sure, the manual gave you a nice listing of the faction names and which colours belonged to them, but that ends up being really poorly integrated into the actual campaign gameplay.
What I meant was. UED in Brood War are white (or brown), Dominion are red. Khalai survivors are brown/yellow, Dark Templar are blue, Raynor's crew is blue, Kerrigan's swarm is purple, Overmind's swarm is orange. Even basic distinctions like that are missing from SC2, I guess past WoL at least.

Good guys are generally blue, bad guys are generally red. Even when it doesn't really fit.

For the zerg, there is the issue that the same colours get reused even when it doesn't make sense. Not only does Zasz's brood keep appearing after his death, it keeps appearing with new cerebrates.
To be fair, that was in Brood War when they'd used up all the colours anyway, and some of the colours just looked really bad. (Yellow Zerg look terrible)

Warcraft III doesn't do much with it either now that I think about it. Kul Tiras has blue units, the scourge don't have distinctins, the night elves distinctions are never explained, and the orcs don't really seem to use the colour system at all.
WarCraft 3 had more factions so the colours could represent more things I guess.

Like the colours are contextual too, they mean different thigns in different contexts. That is, sometimes green Undead represent Kel'thuzad, sometimes Green Undead represent Detheroc or the Burning Legion in general. And just the sheer number of different factions in WarCraft 3 with hugely distinct goals and objectives is so much more interesting to me.

But then Blue Undead is always Sylvanas for example.

They don't do anything even remotely like that in SC2. Even though they introduced decals to distinguish these factions even further.

It took them until Legacy to really do ANYTHING with the Tal'darim other than as placeholders for evil Protoss, and whatever they needed that evil protoss group to be opposed to on the mission in question. There isn't even a strong sense of where the Tal'darim were or where they came from.

And yet they're STILL the most interesting thing about SC2 (mainly Legacy of the Void).

My point isn't really about colours, my point is more that WC3 in particular had a variety of factions with viewpoints and objectives and goals and over the course of it's long story you'd see the interactions between these varying factions and objectives. (Ner'zhul vs. the Burning Legion for example, which becomes the primary conflict of the expansion)

But in SC2 you really have good guys (Raynor, Artanis), not so good guys (the Zerg Swarm) and evil (Amon & his followers).

Raynor says they're going to try and destroy it, yes. However, Zeratul says even earlier that it's Aiur's 'last functioning warp gate'.
I think Raynor said 'we'll shut down the gate on this end'. Then Artanis warns them that they won't be able to send them any reinforcements. I BELIEVE. It's been a long time since I've played it.

I double checked the cinematic. Yeah Raynor says that, and Artanis tells them they'll be hopelessly outnumbered and they'll send all the troops they can spare. Like the motivations make so much more sense if Raynor and Fenix were desperate for any help they could get.

Like, they could just turn the gate off, or set it for a different destination so that none of the Zerg go to Shakuras and make the Protoss there's lives even more hellish.

I'd agree that WoL is "massively inconsistent and chaotic and random". HotS seems way more sanely structured in its plot though.
HotS has similar issues but the plot has a better conceptualization of what it is and what it wants to be.

Wings of Liberty was blatantly completely changed in mid-development. Metzen said as much in an interview. The main character's whole arc was changed from one thing, to... not existing. Raynor doesn't really have an arc in Wings of Liberty. (Good guy who's down on his luck succeeds and is no longer as down on his luck -- basically.)

Kerrigan conversely has a very confusing, inconsistent arc, but there's a much more clear singular goal that they're at least going for. Though I'm not sure they wind up ultimately realizing it.

Legacy of the Void is even better in this regard, but even more straight-forward. Artanis is pretty flat, but at least has consistent goals, objectives and methods.

I think building these campaigns around a single character and their posse was a humongous mistake, probably the single biggest one they made. But there it is.

you do? wow, we're shocked.
Maybe you could for once contribute something meaningful to the discussion instead of constantly 'calling me out' because you disagree with me and taking everything I say so personally for whatever reason.

Maybe? No? Okay then.

Moving on, another point I think is interesting and I've been watching clips of people talking about this is how the cinematic aspects of the story are directly integrated into the gameplay. I've always kind of thought about this myself.

That StarCraft 2 has kind of an arcade feel. The story takes place inbetween the missions and gameplay, and then the gameplay itself is just an uninterrupted special arcade-type game that you might find on the SC2 arcade.

Like, comparing SC:BW's True Colours to WC3's the Culling to SC2's Media Blitz.

True Colours is probably one of the first Blizzard missions that integrates a plot and gameplay element on top of one another. The enemy is resting because of plot, meaning they won't fight back in the gameplay. As it is, you're going to perform a sneak attack and you're going to use units that are good at sneak attacking to attack them. Almost a perfect integration of gameplay and plot.

The Culling is similar. The plot is that you're racing Mal'ganis to kill innocent NPC civilians who can't fight back. And that's literally the gameplay too. I suppose symbolically the introduction of the knight is intended to make a two-fold statement. The knights are symbols of chivalry and heroism, just as Arthas takes his first steps towards throwing those aspects of himself away in order to get the job done. From a gameplay perspective, they're the fastest human unit in their roster. So they can move quickly from house to house, killing peasants. They also have a lot of health so they don't get worn down quickly.

In StarCraft 2's case Media Blitz is probably the game's BEST example of doing something in the old style. Facing off against Mengsk is one of Raynor's express goals and it is established very early on that he'd like to bring him down. There's also something of a cause-effect plan here. You steal the Odin, then you use it to attack Korhal. There's a gameplay element that is integrated FULLY and TOTALLY into the storyline. You use gameplay to steal something and then in the next mission you actually use it to fight the enemy you've been battling, who is someone that Raynor has a personal connection to.

I guess you could argue capturing the pieces of the Artifact then using it in the finale is a similar, but I don't feel that's as thematically connected. It's also a particularly simplistic connection. Especially since you've hardly been racing Kerrigan for the artifact pieces, you've mostly been fighting nameless, faceless evil Protoss. Who are just sort of generic fanatics that Raynor has no relationship toward or with.

It'd be like if a third of the Undead campaign in WC3 was dedicated to fighting the Blackrock Clan to get pages of the Book of Medivh and if the Undead campaign was 30 missions long instead of 10. But instead, it's just a single mission meant to progress the plot, introduce Kel'thuzad properly and re-introduce Arthas's return to Lordaeron. It also works as a book end because it shows Arthas revisiting where his first mission in the human campaign took place. And even THEN, I think Arthas has a more personal connection to fighting the Blackrock Clan than Raynor does the Tal'darim and Raynor spends WAY more time fighting the Tal'darim. There is so much more going on in that ONE shallow, stupid WC3 mission than there is in a SERIES of missions in Wings of Liberty that are integral to the game's main plot and climax.

I think if more of the missions had been like Media Blitz, I would have liked Wings of Liberty more. Media Blitz is a well-realized mission with strong gameplay and plot integration that gives the characters a lot to do and develops their relationships while dealing with a villain that Raynor actually has a personal relationship with. Too bad it really doesn't go anywhere.
"The Demons did their job well. You creatures are as reckless and bloodthirsty as they ever were."

Last edited by Aldrius; 05-30-2017 at 03:06 PM..
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