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Old 09-07-2017, 08:06 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

Echo of the Past
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas, USA
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Crossed Axes (War2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
Forget? You missed the point about the blood price?

You're ignoring all the previous years before the war, were Germany went from a shithole into a world power. I don't care what happened next, it's not the point of this conversation.
What happened next is key, though. Italian fascist and Nazi ideologies do not exist without the doctrines of starting fights and pissing off the world. That is part of the "blood price" you describe.

I'm not blinded by "nazis were bad hurr durr". I'm stuck on "nazis were stupid because they had a deathwish to pick fights with the world hurr durr". That was a key component of the militarization you describe, the part about going to a world power. Napoleon had similar issues.

I kind of hesitate to call dictatorships "fascist" if they don't have the living-space platform Mussolini was so keen on. Like so:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Fascism
Quote:
Italian fascism was rooted in Italian nationalism, national syndicalism, and the desire to restore and expand Italian territories, which Italian Fascists deemed necessary for a nation to assert its superiority and strength and to avoid succumbing to decay. Italian Fascists also claimed that modern Italy is the heir to ancient Rome and its legacy, and historically supported the creation of an Italian Empire to provide spazio vitale ("living space") for colonization by Italian settlers and to establish control over the Mediterranean Sea.
But anyway...

Quote:
Look at other examples with other countries that didn't get into wars if that's what you care about.
Maybe you can give some examples? Right now your example is Spain. My wife had a pen pal who became atheist because Franco's government was so gung ho about forcing people to attend mass. You may know people who remember that era favorably, but I betcha we can find an equal proportion of Russians who remember the Soviet Union favorably. And again, I think it's key that the dictatorship didn't scale back until Franco's death.

What other fascist countries are you thinking about? Did any of them end with the fascist dictator re-democratizing once the "problem was solved"?

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 09-07-2017 at 08:12 AM..
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