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Old 09-07-2017, 11:48 AM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Thanks! Though even with those factored in, I don't think I agree with most of Lon's points about this being something inherent to fascism's collapse, but I'll have to do some more reading.
A lot of the fascist governments were destroyed in war because they came to power with Nazi support, and thus fell with the Third Reich. There's also the question as to how you define fascism: Pinochet was definitely a dictator, but I'm not sure that he really qualifies as a fascist.

Fascism tends to be associated more with the right wing due to its blatant militarism and nationalism, but I'd argue it's more of a "third way" position, with elements of both the left and the right. For instance, fascists tended to be fond of nationalizing industries and using the state as a mediator for class conflict, which would be seen as more left-leaning positions. Pinochet adopted a neoliberal economic model, so he may not have been a fascist.

A fascist regime will also tend to reflect the society in which it arose. While this is true of all regimes, fascism's emphasis on national history/culture makes this more apparent (in contrast to say, communism, which at least pays lip service to the idea of internationalism).

Off the top of my head, I'd say fascism has the following traits:

1) Autocratic leadership, often with a cult of personality
2) Extremely nationalistic
3) Extremely militaristic
4) Corporatist or highly regulated economy
5) Emphasis on tradition
6) Hostility toward Western values (free speech, freedom of press, etc)

They do usually arise during times of economic and political chaos, though the fascists typically contribute to the chaos. In practice, fascists are ultimately not that different from communists (in fairness, the underlying theories are quite different, but they've all turned out the same way). Someone once said that World War 2 in Eastern Europe was a struggle to determine the color of future labor camps: gray or red. During World War 2, Stalin's regime met all of the six points above. Prior to that, it had all but #5, so it was pretty close.

Ironically, fascists usually end up discrediting or weakening the cultures they seek to preserve. I'm not sure German culture has ever entirely recovered from Nazi abuse.

Originally Posted by Taintedmage View Post
This is something that's talked about in political development literature, "Democratic Development Theory."

It basically posits that countries cannot be fully functional democracies until they reach a certain level of development. Distinctions are often drawn on what needs to be developed in order to create a functional democracy.

Often times we're talking things such as media access, education, literacy, culture, etc to make the way for a stable democracy.

Other elements are put into consideration such as the "resource curse" where countries rich in natural resources end up becoming dictatorial because they don't need to politically mobilize the population to make money.

Oil Rich countries like Venezuela, the Saudis, Russia aren't likely to see functional democracies.
Yup. I remember going over this in my MA program. This also explains why most of the attempts at democracy during the Arab Spring failed; the states weren't developed enough to really attain a stable version of it. Maybe Tunisia will succeed, though I'm not that optimistic.

Middle Eastern states tend to be pretty weak, because of geography and history. It's difficult to project power over the rugged terrain, which is why so many people there depend on tribe and religion rather than the state. It's difficult to do democracy in tribal societies (though it can be done—Ghana is an example) since every political struggle becomes a zero-sum game in which your tribe (which includes your family) is in the crosshairs.

I'm not sure how the Middle East can change that, or if it even can be changed.
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Last edited by HlaaluStyle; 09-07-2017 at 11:54 AM..
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