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Old 10-22-2018, 12:00 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
This line of argument was in response to your claim about "feeling like a hero" while speaking about "your character". If you had been talking about races as a whole, the whole argument makes even less of sense, nations and species are not uniform unless they are hiveminds, and therefore, unless speaking of very simplistic black and white worlds, any attempt to make them as such will fall extremely short, just like was happening with the Alliance for the most of the past fifteen years.
That was referring to things that are largely outside of a player's control. Things like race and class add flavour and can be chosen, but the story is mandated by Blizzard. And this story led players of both factions to feel like heroes, unless they happened to be doing quests for Forsaken characters.

And if I treat races like hiveminds, then that is only a consequence of Blizzard doing so themselves. If you play a character belonging to race XYZ, then the game expects your character to act accordingly, and NPCs who don't fit those patterns can be counted on your fingers.

World of Warcraft is a game that only offers a limited amount of freedom an character's choices. You can of course roleplay that you are playing the most heinous criminal, but canonically your path is determined by the quests Blizzard has you play though. It is no wonder people tailor their view of their chaarcters around those experiences.

Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
In that case, you are arguing against something that has never been claimed, at least when it comes to this argument. The entire point behind bringing up Staats and how most of the team saw them as "the evil faction" was to demonstrate that the dissonance between evil and noble within the World of Warcraft team is by far not a modern phenomenon, not even a Cataclysm phenomenon, it traces back to Classic, not that it was actually the evil faction. Ever.
When I look at vanilla WOW's Horde quests I am led to believe that the developers went out of their way to implicate the Forsaken in as many plots against the Horde as possible, make all evil orcs, trolls and tauren known, suspected or unknown enemies of the state, and neutered the trolls by depriving them of parts of their culture and religion so as to make them fit Thrall's ideals.

This largely continued until Wrath were we first saw glimpses of a more WC1 - WC2 like Horde. And that in itself was not bad. It added more variety to the faction. More different opinions. But by that time, the characters had already been established as heroes in the minds of their players, and now, they were told to take on the role of a villain. Some, of course, enjoying this change, but many more were disgruntled by this change.

Maybe the devs were finally able to tell the Horde story they had wanted to tell in vanilla. Good for them. But if they received backlash from some players, that is something they ought to have expected at this point. And if they did so again, which they did in BFA (after having changed gears in WoD), even more so.

But we seem to be talking past each other, so let's just agree to disagree on points we're not al, that clear about.
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