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Old 11-29-2019, 03:41 PM
Triceron Triceron is offline

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Join Date: Sep 2009
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Originally Posted by BoxCrayonTales View Post
Is the story really as good as we remember it being?

Caring about a few retcons here and there in Blizzard lore is about as sensible as rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic while it is sinking. Blizzard doesn't care one iota about the quality of their own writing.
I read the entire post. You make very strong arguments, and I understand what you are trying to say.

Here are my thoughts regarding your first question

The story was good in terms of being the first linear tale we had for Warcraft. The RTS prior to this had little to motivate your gameplay outside of mission briefings. Even then, WC2 holds a special place in my heart for having the Lothar ambush moment utterly redefine what my expectations were for campaigns in games. It was dark, knowing that a character I read about in the manual could get such a meaningless end. No triumphant victory, no going out with a bang. It just happens, and you couldn't do anything about it.

Warcraft 3 builds upon this by giving us an actual narrative behind that kind of dark story. Was it perfect? Hardly. It was full of inconsistencies and it retconned a lot of what WC1&2 already established. You had Illidan in prison holding his weapons, he referred to Arthas as 'human' even though he wouldn't have known what a human was in his 10,000 yrs of imprisonment. There were tons of flaws like that all around and it was inconsistent. Yet what it did well was tell a story, and for that a lot of those issues were acceptable. WC3's story worked because it was unapologetic about what it told the viewer, and it focused on telling a story rather than be caught up in the minutia of having everything explained or stay consistent to established norms.

And when it comes to the core part of telling the story of WC3, there are very clear elements that should be kept in and details that can be glossed over, definitely.

I think it's important to point out what's changed for what reason, because some of these changes have canonical implications.

- Grom missing his full-black jaw.

A detail like this is important because a big part of Garrosh's identity is tied to homaging his father. If Reforged sets a new abridged canon, then it should keep that detail in because of its lore significance. In Reforged, Grom would live and die with the same 3-stripe jaw tattoo as in his design from WoD; an alternate timeline. And this is an oversight, because it seems whoever decided to do this was not knowledgable in the lore significance of this particular design, and they just told whoever made the models to use this latest Grom design from WoW and adapt it for Reforged. As an artist, I totally get that process, as I've worked on plenty of projects based on established canon that I had no interest in. Sometimes the art director may only be concerned about the art style and quality staying consistent between different artists. They wouldn't have had some lore buff like us vet them on what should and shouldn't change; that's ultimately a creative decision.

I think it's important to still voice and point these out because not everyone is aware that these things already exist in Reforged, and think that it's more of a remaster than it really is.


As for your second point about sinking ships - That's subjective isn't it?

If that's how you view and regard WC3 lore, then yeah you could say that. But TBH, WoW lore isn't any better, and retconning isn't adding or fixing any of the problems that are illustrated to exist in WC3. In fact, retconning just makes the waters muddier - and in that case why not just keep it the same if the solution isn't going to 'fix' stuff? I mean even if we use both WoW and Chronicles as examples of how Blizzard has worked to re-establish continuity; both sources have worked to undermine each other's information with each new expansion they release. It's to the point where Chronicles' canon is now being changed to 'this is the story told from the perspective of the Titans, and Shadowlands predates the Titans'. There is no guarantee that a retconned WC3 will be better than the original story.

It's not like adding wings to Malfurion willl make the WC3 campaign better. If anything, it actually changes his look from the ROC cinematic, when he used the horn of Cenarius to call the wisps. If you regard him as a Night Elf with wings in the Reforged campaign and you see a wingless elf in the cinematic using the horn, some people might not immediately recognize that it is supposed to be Malfurion in the cinematic.

Yet we have characters like Arthas who are designed VERY closely to his cinematic look; down to having multiple variation models where he is still a Paladin but wielding Frostmourne and having white hair, to match the following cinematic where he returns to Lordaeron. That kind of change is good since we never got that from original WC3. This example 'fixes' appropriately. Yet other changes like Grom and Malfurion's changes only separate them further from the cinematics.

There are good changes and there are bad changes. I'm not going to write it all off as 'sinking ship' because I still value what was set forth in the original game, and I am passionate about seeing that remade in HD. That is why I think it's important to point out what I think is a good change and what I think is a bad change. And even if Blizzard isn't gonna do anything about it, as a modeller and mapmaker, we can still do it ourselves.

I think it would be better for all of us if we stop caring about Blizzard's decision and start making our own. Don't like the canon? Write fanfiction. Want other people to care about your fanfiction? Write an original universe.
We can absolutely do that. But hey, if I'm paying $40 (CAD) for a new official product and I can spread awareness on things that I think should be changed for the better - then why not? It's not like I'm the only one who is concerned that Grom doesn't have his full jaw tattooes or that trolls are missing their hind toes. These are actually things pointed out by other people that I've collected in my own observed notes of changes. I became aware of the inconsistencies through others sharing their opinions on the inconsistencies, and overall I want a solid product from Blizzard. Personally, I don't think blatant ignorance of the lore and defaulting to the satisfaction of 'fanfiction' is the only sensible path to take. I still enjoy the ongoing Warcraft universe even if I don't agree with everything. And it's pretty clear that they are listening; even if they may not act on every suggestion for change.

Last edited by Triceron; 11-29-2019 at 03:55 PM..
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