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Old 02-04-2019, 04:37 PM
Genesis Genesis is offline

Guru of Gilneas
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,205


Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
But talking about German workers I know Nazi Germany had a lot of work projects, workers got vacations and decent wages and the welfare system was alright, though maybe that last bit is just what got grandfathered in from imperial times. It lines up with "taking care of the volk" and also staying in power by keeping people happy. But again not an expert so maybe I am falling victim to revisionism.
The work projects existed primarily for the purpose of the future (and then current) war effort for Lebensraum. The Autobahn was actually a project that the Nazis inherited from the Weimar Republic that they claimed as their own, but then put in minimal effort to complete. (It was of minimal value to the war effort of Germany, since they mainly deployed supplies using trains.)

Also, many German/Austrian workers were displaced, killed, and silenced if they voiced opposition. Or in the case of my ex's great-grandfather, he was suspected of Nazi opposition and so they conscripted him and sent him to the Russian Front to die. (He deserted and somehow made it back home alive.) It ignores how worker wages were frozen at a lower level for the sake of maintaining corporate profits. The Nazis hated the welfare policies of the Weimar Republic and actively sought to dismantle them when they reached office.

But I think in their time, especially before the war they were pretty centrist/Keynesian.
Except they weren't as I already established. Keynesian policies would not advocate privatization, breaking up unions, while providing further tax breaks for the rich. They were rightwing policies for their time. If they were centrists for their time, then our sources back then would likely have treated them as such. But our sources then also recognized that this was part of a hard right-turn in Germany (along with Spain and Italy).

Needless to say Nazis were big on nationalism and that does mean taking care of the people. You want to accentuate the Darwinian aspects of NatSoc but at the time I think the "taking care of the nation" far outweighed such thinking,
Not really. And that certainly wasn't the case for Nazi Germany. Nationalism is more about the advancement of the nation-state though not necessarily the advancement of the people therein. Overall, I think that you are drastically underplaying the extreme nationalistic project in Nazi ideology. One would certainly not hope that one would defend their policies or goals.

again maybe in time if they had won and shifted from enemy without to enemy within this would become more dominant but that never happened.
They started with the enemy within. When they achieved power, they started targeting and gathering the "enemy within" first: Jews, Communists and some Social Democrats, Slavs, Roma, student activists, political opponents, etc. Anyone who was deemed an internal enemy of the Nazi state was targeted. They gained power in 1933. Concentration camps began in 1933. This was before war started in 1939.

I am not talking about what they might have done or hypotheticals. I am talking about what they historically did with their socio-economic policies. Their extreme rightwing economic policies were inseparable from their extreme rightwing social policies. Attempting to depict Nazis as "centrists" in any form is just trying to normalize the extremist ideology of Nazism.

I also recommend this YouTube video by Three Arrows which discusses this topic more indirectly by debunking the commonly kicked around idea (including in discussions in this forum) that Hitler and the Nazis were Socialists. But in the process he discusses the rightwing (and decidedly anti-leftwing) economic policies of the Nazis.

Last edited by Genesis; 02-04-2019 at 05:04 PM..
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