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Old 02-07-2019, 06:52 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
But what is even your goal here? To assert that Nazism is bad? Yeah no shit we all agree with that.
No, that is not my goal. You made the following assertions:
Quote:
Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
I am not an expert but I've read that economically Nazis were rather centrist (for the time) and Keynesians, in fact very similar to FDR's America so they were as leftwing as the US at worst.
In a modern political context of the US this would make them quite leftwing, Bernie Sanders leftwing. In Europe this would make them somewhere from center-right to moderate left depending on who you asked. Again this is just talking economics and leaving their opinions on social norms out of it.
I then replied to these points with (focusing here on the highlights):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Not sure if I could call the Nazis economically leftwing either. The similarities with the Keynesian policies of the contemporary US may be more superficial than real. The goal of leftwing politics, presuming here that we are using Socialism as a benchmark, is the abolition of classes. Economic policies that attempt to maintain or exacerbate classism would be anti-leftwing.

Nazi economic policies were driven by their rightwing social ideology: (1) Anti-Socialism/Communism, (2) Anti-Semitism, (3) The War Machine, and (4) Social Darwinism.

...

The Third Reich is anti-Proletariat and pro-Bourgeoisie from its head down to its toes. All of this is impossible to reconcile with leftwing politics. These policies may not be "true Capitalism," but this is definitely economically more similar to capitalism than the leftwing socio-economic goals and policies of Socialism. Nazi Germany was definitely rightwing economically as well.
So I think that my goal is abundantly clear as I state it often enough at the beginning and restate it at the end. I do not believe that the Nazis were economically centrist or leftwing. I argued that their economic policies are indicative of rightwing economic policies that are reflective of their social beliefs.

Quote:
But if you set out to make it out as 100% evil for evil's sake then people will just roll their eyes and move on. It was horrible, probably the most horrible thing in history but it was not 100% evil. It had its good sides, if only for the ethnic Germans but still. That is how it got to power, by seeming like a good idea to a large number of people and not by some cartoonish evil. If you set out to make it even worse than it already is you don't gain much, most people will just raise their hands, declare it evil and move on. But that is a bad approach since if people don't understand how it happened they don't understand how it can happen again and can't defend against it. That is why truth matters and even twisting it in hopes of achieving a good result is a bad idea.
I have not said or argued that Nazis won appeal through cartoonish evil. That is your strawman that should be excised from future discussion. I also disagree with you here, as this overview also ignores major steps in how Nazis reached and maintained power through undemocratic means. Though their earlier rise to power was aided, in no small part, due to them piggybacking on a coalition of other rightwing parties, who (1) magnified their voice, and (2) helped mainstream and normalize the appearance of their policies. (Particularly the 1929 German Referendum.)

This is also why the idea I find the idea that the Nazis were economically centrist to be far fetched when examining the evidence. When we look at their bedfellows, allies, and associates, they are not centrists or a mixed coalition of contextually rightwing/leftwing parties, as one would expect from "centrists." Their associates were industrialists, corporations, anti-democrats, fellow nationalists, and rightwing parties.

Last edited by Genesis; 02-07-2019 at 07:15 AM..
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