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  #7751  
Old 02-13-2019, 08:30 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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Originally Posted by Melorandor View Post
I HIGHLY DOUBT there will be a Siege of Orgrimmar 2.0 as the final raid - or a raid as part of the expansion; but the deposing of Sylvanas would be by the Horde in a more personal story for the faction ...However.

I do expect the final raid to be an Alliance v Horde akin to Battle of Dazar'alor.
Imo the perfect punishment for Sylvanas would be to become alive again, so that should be defacto be cut of from her faction, the undead.

And then let her have a similar fate as Katejina_Loos.
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  #7752  
Old 02-13-2019, 11:10 AM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Originally Posted by Vineyard View Post
Imo the perfect punishment for Sylvanas would be to become alive again, so that should be defacto be cut of from her faction, the undead.

And then let her have a similar fate as Katejina_Loos.
From that wiki:
Quote:
...she loses her memory and eyesight, and returns to Earth to live out her remaining days in peace.
I don't know, that would make a lot of people who want her dead angry. I'd be okay with it, though.
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  #7753  
Old 02-13-2019, 12:18 PM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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Plus, she became a homeless wanderer, that had lost everything. (Besides, I think she didn't fully lose her memory. It's imo. kinda implied in the final episode.)

My point is:

Having her die, would be to good for her.
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  #7754  
Old 02-13-2019, 12:29 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Think on an ending for Sylvanas that would satisfy both diehard fans that would follow her to 'hell and beyond' and those who deeply hate and resent her.
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  #7755  
Old 02-13-2019, 01:04 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Have the Lich King reassert his control over her.
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  #7756  
Old 02-13-2019, 01:46 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Have the Lich King reassert his control over her.
Funnily enough, this actually fits into one of my own crazy theories I've been muddling over.

People reacted to Bolvar's behavior in Legion by assuming he's plotting some sinister secret Lich King-y world conquest thing that'll have him coming back as master of a once-more villainous Scourge, but who's to say that's really the case? What if he's outright fulfilling his purpose in taking up the mantle of Lich King and it was all part of working to reign in those undead who threaten the safety of life on Azeroth as a whole?

What if bolstering and guiding the Knights of the Ebon Blade was his way of forging a new army of loyal and powerful "good" undead who can be trusted to go out into the world and corral the world's reckless, dangerous undead when the time comes? What if he let Sylvanas take his val'kyr and the San'layn because it allowed him to surround her with agents of the Scourge who, at the proper time (namely, when her actions so thoroughly isolated herself that the Horde no longer cares to come to her defense against such an attack), could pounce and reclaim Sylvanas along with perhaps any other Forsaken who think just like her and pose a similar threat to the living?

And what if Voss's real reason for serving the Forsaken is that she's a covert agent of the Lich King, monitoring Sylvanas even as she helps he Horde, making ready for the moment when Sylvanas has so thoroughly alienated the living Horde that the Scourge can make its move and shackle the Bashee Queen and her most fanatical acolytes without having to start a war against the entire Horde to do it? Voss may be no friend of the Scourge as it once was, but the idea of helping eliminate an undead threat by helping to bring Sylvanas and those like her to heel and lock them away in Northrend bound by a Scourge that's not looking to overrun the world might very well fit with her previously established sensibilities.

Unlikely as it perhaps is, what if she wasn't just in the Scholomance for her own personal vendetta against the Scourge? What if she was there on behalf of the Frozen Throne, eliminating one of the more powerful loose ends left over from the old Scourge that could undermine Bolvar's efforts to clamp down on the undead? After all, her resisting Gandling's necromantic control all by herself was a pretty impressive feat. That is, unless she wasn't really all by herself...

It's always struck me as more than a little bit odd that of all the undead to be able to escape Bolvar's grip, it was specifically those who could readily proliferate more undead outside his control. Seems like the sort of undead he'd prioritize keeping under heel; after all, in the grand scheme of things it's not exactly end-of-the-world catastrophic if a few ghouls get away on the periphery, but shouldn't he have been particularly focused on keeping a tight grip around any undead that could start single-handedly spawning their own Scourge outbreaks, in effect producing the very apocalyptic scenario against which we were told a Lich King's control is necessary? Unless perhaps Bolvar wanted Sylvanas to have them, so they could start producing new Forsaken who, when the time is right, can be keyed to turn against her and facilitate locking down what's basically the single most glaring example of a Damned soul running amok outside of Bolvar's control and trying to Scourge more and more of the living.

Yeah, it's probably more thought than Blizz has put into it, but still. Frankly Sylvanas herself is arguably at the top of the list of undead who'd best fit the warnings from Terenas and Uther about what would happen if the Scourge were allowed to run loose and unshackled by a Lich King. And she's been allowed to reach this point unraided in no small part thanks to the insulation of being under Horde protection. But imagine if all this time, Bolvar's been setting up the pieces, arranging his agents so they'll be poised to make their move and drag her screaming back into the Scourge the moment the Horde decides she's not worth protecting - much less following - any more.

Last edited by ARM3481; 02-13-2019 at 01:51 PM..
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  #7757  
Old 02-13-2019, 03:17 PM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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Dammit, Internet was gone for a minute when I tried to make my post.

So, a much shortened answer.

Your theory is interesting. But as for the Val'kyr, the Chronicles Vol. 3 chapter "The Dormant Throne" clearly states, that Bolvar indeed lost control of the Val'kyr. It was however a lession from it to further prevent anybody else getting control of former Scource in the Future.

In that case is however strange that after so many years some San'layn joined Sylvanas...

Last edited by Vineyard; 02-13-2019 at 03:24 PM..
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  #7758  
Old 02-13-2019, 04:02 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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I really like the cut of Nazja's jib there, forcing her back into servitude would be probably the most stinging comeuppance for her.
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  #7759  
Old 02-14-2019, 03:43 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Damn, Zandalari are so unambiguously awesome!

Re: Sylvanas - I actually love this idea. Would Bolvar only take over Sylvanas, or also Nathanos and her loyalists?
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  #7760  
Old 02-15-2019, 07:47 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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These Remastered Versions really look amazing.
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  #7761  
Old 02-15-2019, 08:02 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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They've updated the Mag'har NPCs in Orgrimmar with new on-click text. They no longer talk about being on Draenor or for you to be careful while visiting their world.



Here are all the lines I've found from just clicking Mag'har npcs on the PTR over and over.

Quote:
"I still dream of Draenor. Does my home still remain? Aggh. It does no good to think on such matters."
Quote:
"We have much to teach the orcs of this world."
Quote:
"Overlord Geya'rah was the Warchief's right hand. There is no braver orc on this world."
Quote:
"What fate did our brothers and sisters meet?"
Quote:
"If you earn the overlord's trust, you will earn mine."
Quote:
"This world reeks of corruption."
Quote:
"If any Lightbound traitors come to this world, I will be ready!"
Quote:
"Warchief Hellscream is almost certainly dead. If he fell, he died a hero's death."

Last edited by Insane Guy of Doom; 02-15-2019 at 08:08 PM..
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  #7762  
Old 02-16-2019, 11:08 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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Still haven't done the Mag'har Unlocking Questline myself, but found this interesting segement on Wowpedia.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Tyranny_of_the_Light

Quote:
There the scenario ends, and the survivors - orcs, ogres and gronn alike - materialize at Rocktusk Farm outside of Orgrimmar. Behind the group, Botani and Saberon can be seen running southwest into the Northern Barrens, and goren south into Durotar. Turn in to Geya'rah.
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  #7763  
Old 02-16-2019, 11:35 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Vineyard View Post
Still haven't done the Mag'har Unlocking Questline myself, but found this interesting segement on Wowpedia.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Tyranny_of_the_Light
It was something someone pointed to me during beta (I think it was the IGoD): that seemly they chose to bring mag'har from AU rather than Outland because of their unique Iron Horde aesthetics. And, indeed, it's clear now: they chose to revisit AU to bring as many of Draenor's elements into Azeroth as possible.

During Zuldazar assaults, for instance, there's a Horde WQ in which you use tamed goren to eat dark iron mole machines. One of the 8.1 War campaign quests for Horde has the mag'har using their Iron Horde tech to assault Tiragarde Sound. The finishing Quest for Tiragarde assaults for Horde makes you use an Iron Star to invade Boralus.

And yes, during the recruitment questline, you end up bringing rogue botani and saberon into Kalimdor.
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  #7764  
Old 02-16-2019, 12:21 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Based on at least one of the Stormsong Valley assault quests, the Mag'har also seem to have brought Iron Horde-style enslaved gronn and gronnlings with them as well.

Not to mention they can apparently whip up Iron Horde battleships and carriers in the short time they've been on Azeroth as well, which...kinda undermines the primary strategic reason for the Horde needing the Zandalari in the first place.

Botani escaping to the Barrens seems like a particularly bad omen for things down the line though, considering that's where the Wailing Caverns, the Overgrowth and Razorfen Downs/Kraul are located.

Saberon on the other hand...it might be interesting if sometime down the line, we found out they became established in the barrens and found their own niche among the local beasts and races.
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  #7765  
Old 02-16-2019, 01:41 PM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Based on at least one of the Stormsong Valley assault quests, the Mag'har also seem to have brought Iron Horde-style enslaved gronn and gronnlings with them as well.

Not to mention they can apparently whip up Iron Horde battleships and carriers in the short time they've been on Azeroth as well, which...kinda undermines the primary strategic reason for the Horde needing the Zandalari in the first place.
The Timeline of the Recruitment of both the Dark Irons and the Mag'har most likely predates the Invasion of Kul'Tiras, since the later were already present during the War Campaign according to this article.

(Wouldn't be the first time that things happen in Lore at another time.)

So they probatly had some time to build stuff on both sides.

Quote:
Botani escaping to the Barrens seems like a particularly bad omen for things down the line though, considering that's where the Wailing Caverns, the Overgrowth and Razorfen Downs/Kraul are located.

Saberon on the other hand...it might be interesting if sometime down the line, we found out they became established in the barrens and found their own niche among the local beasts and races.
This is specially ironic considering a certain dialogue in Warcraft III.

Quote:
Thrall: This land is rugged and beautiful, much like the place from which my people originally come.
And now, Durotar/the Barrens most likely really become Gorgrond 2.0.

Edit:

Just saw, this in the AU Mag'har article. This is based on this tweet by a Dev.


Last edited by Vineyard; 02-16-2019 at 01:48 PM..
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  #7766  
Old 02-16-2019, 02:20 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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I'd prefer to avoid all the AU shenanigans altogether, but since they are already here, I'd like to see Thrall meet and give Geya'rah a good beating.

Maybe Saurfang, Thrall and others save Baine, and Geya'rah try to stop them, and Thrall reveals he's the son of Durotan. It could lead into an interesting story. Bonus points if Thrall announces himself as "Son of Durotan, Chieftain of the Frostwolf Clan".

-------------

Oh, and those juggernauts in Nazmir may not notbe Iron Horde-related. I got the vibe they weren't involved with those (no mag'har presence there). Remember that we were able to build carrier ships like those in Draenor. It could just be Horde vessels recently built.
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  #7767  
Old 02-16-2019, 02:40 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Oh, and those juggernauts in Nazmir may not notbe Iron Horde-related. I got the vibe they weren't involved with those (no mag'har presence there). Remember that we were able to build carrier ships like those in Draenor. It could just be Horde vessels recently built.
Right, but either way it kinda undermines the whole idea being presented since this whole thing started that the factions needed the ready-made fleets of Zandalar and Kul Tiras because there wasn't time for them to rebuild their own naval losses from Legion.

Saurfang even makes a point in one of the short stories that the Horde and Alliance are desperate for seagoing vessels and airships, yet subsequently we've seen no indication on their part of lacking either. Every zone assault is spearheaded by various airships and flying machines, the Forsaken and night elf fleets seem evidently intact in the events of the Dakshore warfront, the Horde has Iron Horde-style vessels lined up off the coast of Nazmir (complete with the IH troop-deployment boats seen back at AU Shattrath), and the assault on Dazar'alor is carried out by a grand total of one Kul Tiran ship (Jaina's, so a previously sunken one) leading a fleet of Stormwind-style Alliance ironclads.

The whole premise of going to these new lands hinged on the factions desperately needing their boats to compete in the war, yet throughout the expansion the Alliance and Horde both still seem to be up to their ears in their own navies.
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  #7768  
Old 02-16-2019, 03:04 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Right, but either way it kinda undermines the whole idea being presented since this whole thing started that the factions needed the ready-made fleets of Zandalar and Kul Tiras because there wasn't time for them to rebuild their own naval losses from Legion.

Saurfang even makes a point in one of the short stories that the Horde and Alliance are desperate for seagoing vessels and airships, yet subsequently we've seen no indication on their part of lacking either. Every zone assault is spearheaded by various airships and flying machines, the Forsaken and night elf fleets seem evidently intact in the events of the Dakshore warfront, the Horde has Iron Horde-style vessels lined up off the coast of Nazmir (complete with the IH troop-deployment boats seen back at AU Shattrath), and the assault on Dazar'alor is carried out by a grand total of one Kul Tiran ship (Jaina's, so a previously sunken one) leading a fleet of Stormwind-style Alliance ironclads.

The whole premise of going to these new lands hinged on the factions desperately needing their boats to compete in the war, yet throughout the expansion the Alliance and Horde both still seem to be up to their ears in their own navies.
The amount of vessels available to the factions in BfA does bother me a lot, specially the airships. All assaults are spearheaded by airships! (Nazmir and Stormsong ships only appear if certain quests are available, thought)

I think this is the result of bad comunication between teams.
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  #7769  
Old 02-16-2019, 07:16 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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I'd prefer to avoid all the AU shenanigans altogether, but since they are already here, I'd like to see Thrall meet and give Geya'rah a good beating.
Where the flying f**k is Thrall anyway? You think he'd pop up and express concern of the way the Hordes headed, but not a peep.

At this point, they might as well have had Tyrande sacrifice him, Aggra, and their two children for the night warrior ritual rather then some random orc. I wonder how people would've reacted to that?
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  #7770  
Old 02-17-2019, 04:20 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
Where the flying f**k is Thrall anyway? You think he'd pop up and express concern of the way the Hordes headed, but not a peep.

At this point, they might as well have had Tyrande sacrifice him, Aggra, and their two children for the night warrior ritual rather then some random orc. I wonder how people would've reacted to that?
I think he isolated himself. I wouldn't be surprised if he's leading the Frostwolves in Alterac, and, while being somewhat aware of current events, just trying to live in peace. Until Saurfang comes looking for him.
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  #7771  
Old 02-17-2019, 06:21 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I think he isolated himself. I wouldn't be surprised if he's leading the Frostwolves in Alterac, and, while being somewhat aware of current events, just trying to live in peace. Until Saurfang comes looking for him.
If Saurfang’s looking for Thrall, he’s looking in Nagrand. He pushed east to the Swamp of Sorrows after his “escape,” then South into the blasted lands after that business in the Blasted Lands.

Of course, he could do any number of other things in Outland. Visit his son’s grave, perform a Bleeding Hollow Ritual with Jorin to see why he just can’t get that honorable death..............

As for Thrall, the plight of the newly arrested Baine or the newly isolated Frostwolves might get him back in the game, depending on whether Metzen’s up for it. I had a thought a while back regarding Thrall the prophet, where he finally realizes the nature of his people and inspires Saurfang and the other orcs with it. Or, and not entirely mutually exclusive with the Prophet motif, Thrall figures out the template to Grond in Outland, and returns to Azeroth to create a New Grond, possibly using himself as its guiding consciousness.
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  #7772  
Old 02-17-2019, 11:47 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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I'm amazed at the Warcraft fans concerned about bloodshed, also thinking that the 'authorities' should give a damn to it.
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  #7773  
Old 02-17-2019, 04:54 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
As for Thrall, the plight of the newly arrested Baine or the newly isolated Frostwolves might get him back in the game, depending on whether Metzen’s up for it.
Metzen is definitely up for it.

(Grr, this is the second time in less than a week. Why are my embedded links not showing up like they would before?)

Anyway, what I'm trying to link was Metzen's appearance at Blizzcon 2018 where he asked "When is the Horde getting its true Warchief back?" to Afrasiabi responded "I'm gonna guess, I will surmise, there may very well be a job posting up soon on the Orgrimmar war board looking for a new Warchief. I don't know, it might happen. And if there is... we'll call you."

Last edited by Nazja; 02-18-2019 at 09:56 AM..
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  #7774  
Old 02-17-2019, 06:02 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Thematically speaking, Thrall appearing now would be a perfect to signal that the Horde is finding its spirit and purpose. He was the New Horde, and he should be the one to guide it back into its ideals.

However, I think he shouldn't be the Warchief. He should be a guide, a spiritual leader. If I were to choose, Baine should be warchief, but he would need to get some really big personal trial first, and then do something badass the likes only the greatest heroes of Warcraft have done, akin to Grom slaying Mannoroth or Varian sacrificing himself for the Alliance.
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  #7775  
Old 02-17-2019, 06:25 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Lawl don't kid yourself D, odds are 80% Saurfang gets the job. And much of those remaining 20% is Sylvanas staying in power for a few expansions.

Blizz is not very imaginative with their stories, if it walks like a duck... yeah.
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