Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > World of WarCraft Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #7851  
Old 03-13-2019, 03:29 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

Arch-Druid
Deicide's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,164

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
I have to say, I really liked that the motivation given by Baine was about the Earth Mother dying while we incessantly fight, not about honor. It ties directly to Tauren culture, but more importantly, it's an actually tangible reason, whereas honor is more an abstract concept that's further generally not well understood by modern audiences.
I always took that, for Baine, it was a matter of morality rather than honor. He knew the war was wrong, went with it until his breaking point and can't tolerate it any longer. But he mentioning the Earthmother is awesome and makes his position a tauren thing rather than just a Baine thing.
__________________
- Sorry for any typos; english's not my primary language.

- A better signature coming soon(ish).
Reply With Quote
  #7852  
Old 03-13-2019, 02:29 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,296

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
I have to say, I really liked that the motivation given by Baine was about the Earth Mother dying while we incessantly fight, not about honor. It ties directly to Tauren culture, but more importantly, it's an actually tangible reason, whereas honor is more an abstract concept that's further generally not well understood by modern audiences.
I'll admit I'm glad someone acknowledged the planet is dying, I'd like if he brought ot up to other members of the Horde in front of Sylv more
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #7853  
Old 03-14-2019, 03:54 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

Sha of Disappointment
Commander Rotal's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,095

Default

So.

Do we all hate BfA yet?
Reply With Quote
  #7854  
Old 03-14-2019, 05:20 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

Trade Baroness - Moderator
Nazja's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: All the lands of Wonder.
Posts: 40,873

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Rotal View Post
So.

Do we all hate BfA yet?
I hate the faction war's stupidity, but I like the two new continents/islands and most of the allied races.

As someone who loves trolls, vanilla human zones and playable races, I could never hate BFA. But some of the faction war content makes it really difficult not to dislike this expansion to some extent.

Last edited by Nazja; 03-14-2019 at 06:20 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #7855  
Old 03-14-2019, 05:35 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

Eternal
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,928

Default

I don't have a reason to hate Battle for Azeroth. It's certainly one of my more favorite expansions.
Reply With Quote
  #7856  
Old 03-14-2019, 07:06 AM
zoombini zoombini is offline

Treant
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 22

Default

So . . . what's Vol'jin's status now?

It originally took a powerful ritual to get him to manifest, and then in 8.1 he was travelling around with us, and now in 8.1.5 he just pops into Talanji's coronation to wave hi?
Reply With Quote
  #7857  
Old 03-14-2019, 09:49 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

Elune
Lord Grimtale's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Slaughtered Lamb
Posts: 22,046
BattleTag: Grimtale67#1407

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Rotal View Post
So.

Do we all hate BfA yet?
Eh...

It's fine for what it is, I just don't like any of the current gear designs and will probably let my sub sit until 8.2.5.
Reply With Quote
  #7858  
Old 03-14-2019, 01:02 PM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

Arch-Druid
Reinhardt's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,049

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoombini View Post
So . . . what's Vol'jin's status now?

It originally took a powerful ritual to get him to manifest, and then in 8.1 he was travelling around with us, and now in 8.1.5 he just pops into Talanji's coronation to wave hi?
I'm pretty sure his "death" is an elaborate tax avoidance scheme.
Reply With Quote
  #7859  
Old 03-14-2019, 03:05 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

Arch-Druid
Deicide's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,164

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoombini View Post
So . . . what's Vol'jin's status now?

It originally took a powerful ritual to get him to manifest, and then in 8.1 he was travelling around with us, and now in 8.1.5 he just pops into Talanji's coronation to wave hi?
Over the course of the 8.1 questline it was stated that his spirit was growing stronger and summoning him was getting easier each time it was attempted (at the Broken Shore, Orgrimmar and so on).

By the end of it, he says he will keep an eye on Sylvanas.
__________________
- Sorry for any typos; english's not my primary language.

- A better signature coming soon(ish).
Reply With Quote
  #7860  
Old 03-14-2019, 05:50 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

Troubadour
Krainz's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,384
BattleTag: Krainz#1972

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
I don't have a reason to hate Battle for Azeroth. It's certainly one of my more favorite expansions.
Same.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7861  
Old 03-14-2019, 06:21 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

Arch-Druid
Deicide's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,164

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Same.
I'm kinda interested in BfA. It's not the best expansion, but nowhere near as bad as people paint it as. I think the problem with BfA is that is has a lot of features but none truly shines above what we've seen before.

I do think Blizzard is doing a better than average work on the story, but the plot has some flaws that make it not as enjoyable as I'd hope. Still, I'm invested in it and I think it will pay off in the end.
__________________
- Sorry for any typos; english's not my primary language.

- A better signature coming soon(ish).
Reply With Quote
  #7862  
Old 03-14-2019, 07:21 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is online now

Time-Lost Proto Nerd
Insane Guy of Doom's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,980

Default

Battle for Azeroth is far from my favorite expansion, but its nowhere near my least favorite or what I would think is the worst. I don't like to assess my overall judgment of where an expansion fits into my overall ranking until all the patches are out and there's been some distance to look back on it, but so far I definitely like it more than Cata and WoD at least.

For reference, my "best to worst expansion" list at the moment is:

MoP - Wrath - Legion - TBC - Cata - WoD (though honestly I have a soft spot for WoD whereas I find Cata forgettable, but WoD's post launch abandonment makes it objectively worse)

Last edited by Insane Guy of Doom; 03-14-2019 at 10:24 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #7863  
Old 03-14-2019, 09:44 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

Loremaster
ARM3481's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,529

Default

So, there's something rather odd I noticed at the end of "A Gathering of Foes," the quest where Alliance players witness Baine getting arrested.

Part of Jaina's text for the turn-in is as follows:

"Sylvanas has made a bold move. We'll go after her, but she's cunning. We need to push back the naga and gather our forces for a final strike."

Strange that she'd say such a thing, considering the naga aren't really present in the central narrative or overtly moving against the Alliance and Horde yet, and presumably won't be until the very end of 8.1.5 or the start of 8.2.
Reply With Quote
  #7864  
Old 03-14-2019, 10:23 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is online now

Time-Lost Proto Nerd
Insane Guy of Doom's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,980

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
So, there's something rather odd I noticed at the end of "A Gathering of Foes," the quest where Alliance players witness Baine getting arrested.

Part of Jaina's text for the turn-in is as follows:

"Sylvanas has made a bold move. We'll go after her, but she's cunning. We need to push back the naga and gather our forces for a final strike."

Strange that she'd say such a thing, considering the naga aren't really present in the central narrative or overtly moving against the Alliance and Horde yet, and presumably won't be until the very end of 8.1.5 or the start of 8.2.
Halford mentions being busy fighting the naga during the quest to to go Stormsong to spy on the Horde as well. I wonder if these quests were supposed to come around the same time as the Crucible of Storms questline originally. It would explain the day long mission already dividing the war campaign neatly into two parts.
Reply With Quote
  #7865  
Old 03-14-2019, 10:26 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,296

Default

We need to give expansions three scores rather than one lump score.

1. Lore Score

2. Gameplay Score

3. Style Score (Art, Music, etc)
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #7866  
Old 03-15-2019, 06:35 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

Problemsolver
Aneurysm's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Here, there, and everywhere.
Posts: 9,286

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
We need to give expansions three scores rather than one lump score.

1. Lore Score

2. Gameplay Score

3. Style Score (Art, Music, etc)
All of WoW's expansions would get the following;

Lore Score: Meh, bland and spread thin at best.
Gameplay Score: Alright. Possibly heavily addictive at times.
Style Score: Top notch. Pretty much spot on at all times.
__________________
My love for you is like a truck, berserker.
Would you like some making fuck, berserker?
Reply With Quote
  #7867  
Old 03-15-2019, 07:45 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

Eternal
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,928

Default

Eh, certainly not spot on at all times. Icecrown felt rather underwhelming and generic, for example. Instead of a white hell full of strange Scourge-Nerubian architecture, we got ourselves a blue Mordor.
Reply With Quote
  #7868  
Old 03-15-2019, 12:13 PM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

Problemsolver
Aneurysm's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Here, there, and everywhere.
Posts: 9,286

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
Eh, certainly not spot on at all times. Icecrown felt rather underwhelming and generic, for example. Instead of a white hell full of strange Scourge-Nerubian architecture, we got ourselves a blue Mordor.
Every expansion has had boring and lackluster zones or dungeons. So I say not at all times, but pretty much.

And prior to unlocking the riding skill to fly in Northrend, with the towering walls and clusters of high levelled and some elite monsters, I think Icecrown had, if nothing else, an imposing and oppressive atmosphere that was very befitting. But sure, it was a pretty lackluster zone compared to a lot of others WotLK delivered, and the imposing atmosphere was gone when the Argent Crusade set up a massive tournament arena in the mountains.
__________________
My love for you is like a truck, berserker.
Would you like some making fuck, berserker?
Reply With Quote
  #7869  
Old 03-15-2019, 01:02 PM
kobebyarlant kobebyarlant is offline

Huntress
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 44

Default

Running WoD dungeons for mogs made me realize WoD's main issue was just not being finished. If it was finished and given a proper patch cycle instead of throwing resources at garrisons it would've probably ended well like MoP did.

Cata though was fundamentally flawed on a story, design, and systems level though. It's like the design document was cribbed from a teenage Horde fanboy from the forums. "We'll have every zone be about how COOL the Horde are, they'll kill tons of Alliance in every town. The Horde will be super strong and honorable because Alliance are gay 12 year olds lol. Dungeons will be SUPER hard because scrubs don't deserve epics, only RAIDERS can gear lol. Then Thrall will be the strongest Shaman EVER and be given ALL the power of the Aspects and defeat Deathwing!"

Last edited by kobebyarlant; 03-15-2019 at 04:17 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #7870  
Old 03-15-2019, 01:52 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,296

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kobebyarlant View Post
Running WoD dungeons for mogs made me realize WoD's main issue was just not being finished. If it was finished and given a proper patch cycle instead of throwing resources at garrisons it would've probably ended well like MoP did.

Cata though was fundamentally flawed on a story, design, and systems level though. It's like the design document was cribbed from a teenage Horde fanboy from the forums. "We'll have every zone be about how COOL the Horde are, they'll kill tons of Alliance in every town. They Horde will be super strong and honorable because Alliance are gay 12 year olds lol. Dungeons will be SUPER hard because scrubs don't deserve epics, only RAIDERS can gear lol. Then Thrall will be the strongest Shaman EVER and be given ALL the power of the Aspects and defeat Deathwing!"

Even the moments that were supposed to be badass for the Horde felt weird.

Like the dozens of demolishers hitting maestra's post just felt... dumb.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #7871  
Old 03-15-2019, 04:49 PM
kobebyarlant kobebyarlant is offline

Huntress
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 44

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Even the moments that were supposed to be badass for the Horde felt weird.

Like the dozens of demolishers hitting maestra's post just felt... dumb.
I leveled my first Horde character since vanilla through the Cata revamp recently, and I’ve rarely felt so... dirty playing a game.

Every zone is just you slaughtering Alliance forces for the horrible act of, I dunno, defending themselves against the Horde’s attacks and genocide I guess? Literally, genocide. They have death camps and the carpet bomb with plague canisters. I mean the Alliance fights the Horde to defend itself and not be killed, while the Horde fights the Alliance just to kill the Alliance.

Seriously, there’s no motivation. You can tell this was when the devs were at peak Horde bias. They just assume you agree the Horde is Right and Honorable and Cool and that’s enough motivation to hate the Alliance.

It would be like if GTAV painted the playable characters as unironic heroes because they killed any pesky cop for the horrible injustice of shooting at them while they were going on a public rampage.
Reply With Quote
  #7872  
Old 03-15-2019, 08:11 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

Arch-Druid
Deicide's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,164

Default

Some random thoughts:

I think Sylvanas’ actual master is Helya since the pact in Helheim. Blizzard made us kill Helya to throw us off that trail, but the Island Expeditions make it clear Helya’s not quite dead.

Also, Sylvanas’ powers over undeath seem to be getting stronger but kept hidden from players. In “Dark Mirror” it’s stated the val’kyr can’t create greater undead without a power source (such as the Lich King), unless they sacrifice some of their own power. But now not only Sylvanas is creating more dark rangers than ever, she also made Derek a greater undead.

Beyond that, the Horde has been showing a lot of death knights, specially as elite quest mobs in faction invasions. Where are these death knights coming from?

And let’s not forget the attempted alliance with Dreven and his san’layn.

Either Sylvanas is using azerite to empower her val’kyr, or she’s getting power from somewhere else (Helya?).

I wouldn’t be surprised if Helya was the one that killed Vol’jin and tricked him into placing Sylvanas in power. Then she contacted Sylvanas and revealed about Eyr, thus tempting Sylvanas into their pact.
__________________
- Sorry for any typos; english's not my primary language.

- A better signature coming soon(ish).
Reply With Quote
  #7873  
Old 03-15-2019, 09:28 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

World Builder
Mutterscrawl's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 32,296

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kobebyarlant View Post
I leveled my first Horde character since vanilla through the Cata revamp recently, and I’ve rarely felt so... dirty playing a game.

Every zone is just you slaughtering Alliance forces for the horrible act of, I dunno, defending themselves against the Horde’s attacks and genocide I guess? Literally, genocide. They have death camps and the carpet bomb with plague canisters. I mean the Alliance fights the Horde to defend itself and not be killed, while the Horde fights the Alliance just to kill the Alliance.

Seriously, there’s no motivation. You can tell this was when the devs were at peak Horde bias. They just assume you agree the Horde is Right and Honorable and Cool and that’s enough motivation to hate the Alliance.

It would be like if GTAV painted the playable characters as unironic heroes because they killed any pesky cop for the horrible injustice of shooting at them while they were going on a public rampage.
Pretty much why I unsubbed when it became clear that Sylvanas's "Kill them for resisting us!" nonsense in BFA wasn't going to be questioned by... anyone in the Horde.
__________________
Brought to you by Sanguine Enterprises.

My Worldbuilding:
http://bloodinkworlds.tumblr.com/
Reply With Quote
  #7874  
Old 03-15-2019, 10:48 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

Loremaster
ARM3481's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,529

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Pretty much why I unsubbed when it became clear that Sylvanas's "Kill them for resisting us!" nonsense in BFA wasn't going to be questioned by... anyone in the Horde.
One of the worst parts was how the way she kills Zelling reflects on the Horde leadership's bizarre inaction. The fact that Baine's arrested is allowed to completely overshadow the fact that by taking responsibility for Derek's "escape," he was in effect saying he really did the thing they'd just accused Zelling of doing. And yet in spite of that, she has Zelling killed anyway.

Meaning to the other observing leaders, it should have looked like Sylvanas just arbitrarily had Nathanos execute Zelling anyway, right after - from what they'd just witnessed right before - he'd seemingly been exonerated by way of Baine's confession.

With said execution punctuating her "there's no room for weakness" statement, as if not actually being a traitor (again, seemingly) somehow paints Zelling as weak. Amidst their reactions to Baine's arrest, none of the leaders say a thing about the fact that Sylvanas basically made her "point" by offhandedly murdering one of her own people who (to their eyes, based on what they knew and Baine's admission) turned out to have not actually done anything wrong.

Last edited by ARM3481; 03-15-2019 at 10:50 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #7875  
Old 03-16-2019, 07:25 AM
Mungo Mungo is offline

Hippogryph
Mungo's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 185

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kobebyarlant View Post
I leveled my first Horde character since vanilla through the Cata revamp recently, and I’ve rarely felt so... dirty playing a game.

Every zone is just you slaughtering Alliance forces for the horrible act of, I dunno, defending themselves against the Horde’s attacks and genocide I guess? Literally, genocide. They have death camps and the carpet bomb with plague canisters. I mean the Alliance fights the Horde to defend itself and not be killed, while the Horde fights the Alliance just to kill the Alliance.

Seriously, there’s no motivation. You can tell this was when the devs were at peak Horde bias. They just assume you agree the Horde is Right and Honorable and Cool and that’s enough motivation to hate the Alliance.

It would be like if GTAV painted the playable characters as unironic heroes because they killed any pesky cop for the horrible injustice of shooting at them while they were going on a public rampage.
I guess you missed the quest "The War of Northwatch Aggression" in southern Durotar where Alliance forces where making a base in to attack Sen'jin village, Orgrimmar, and The Valley of Trials. If that doesn't merit aggressive response, I don't know what does.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
alliance whining, azeroth literally dying, battle for azeroth, for the whored, gilgoblins, mop 2.0 sucks, mop sucks, more like cata 2.0 sucks, quilboar bias, world of warcraft

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.