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  #26  
Old 04-27-2007, 02:44 PM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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Originally Posted by Nephalim View Post
Wouldn't that defy all logic about how a wiki functions?
I've never seen it say:

"Things might be this way because some sources say they are otherwise."

It says:

"Things are this way though some sources say otherwise."
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Originally Posted by Pliny the Elder
True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read; and in so living as to make the world happier for our living in it.

Co-creator of UFS, a joint urban fantasy setting.
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  #27  
Old 04-28-2007, 01:39 AM
Mikk Mikk is offline

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Aight. I'll try to make this my last annoyance here, I promise

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Originally Posted by Crash Torrian View Post
And on that note does anyone actually like the Appendix III at WoWWiki other then "Baggins"?
Well, Appendix III is undisputably still "Warcraft", and the wiki purports to display everything that is warcraft, so it'll stay on the wiki for sure. As for how integrated it needs to be in other lore? Well, a new policy was ratified recently, and I think it answers your question. ("Ratified" means it's decided upon, but someone has yet to pick up the ball and make the changes throughout the wiki. Feel free )

To be quite honest, this would have happened ages ago if people from here were involved in the decision process.

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Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
With SoL there are people who, regardless of personal opinion, are willing to put down lore that is incontravertible fact. Speculations still occur on the boards, theories are still thrown around, but they aren't placed within the lore section itself.
So why can't that be true for WoWWiki? Only because you guys aren't on there making sure it's the case.

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Originally Posted by Nephalim View Post
The thing about the Wiki and lore is that it validates every little rumour and speculation that occurs to every member of the team. Rumours are posted in the same article, as are apocryphal or otherwise illegitimate lore on the characters. Yeah, fine, they're marked appropriately, but it influences how people perceive the character or what they can expect later or conclusions they come to on their own.
So get on there and change it? How about moving speculation to separate pages with a small link from the main one? Better yet, vote to have the lore policy changed so that this is a requirement? Suddenly, wiki patrollers know what's right and what's not even if they don't know the lore, and can and will help make sure that this is the case. Or at least alert the lore team on the wiki if they're unsure.

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Originally Posted by Warlock View Post
But overall I'm just saying it's a flawed system because it can't be properly moderated. That's my main gripe.
Have you tried it? You _do_ know there's such thing as watchlists where you're alerted if pages on your list get changed? And you get to see detailed diffs of exactly what's been changed. And there's even the Recent Changes and New Pages patrol that make sure that things abide by policy. Policy that can be changed.

The current lore team tries to divide lore between them so that not everyone has to watchlist every damn lore page in existance. The problem is really only that they're too few, and perhaps not clued enough. The reason for that? The die-hard lore guys all hang out on a forum site, frequented only by other die-hard lore guys. And Yuber *ducks*

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Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
To put it one way, there is no Democracy in an encyclopedia, so attempting to open up the avenues of editing information to the masses is an exercise in futility. All you achieve is the dissemination of untrustworthy information that can and will do harm if it's ignored (which it regularly is in many cases.)
See my answer above. And do remember that even the current lore policy states that facts have to be properly sourced. There's no "democracy" behind facts at all. There's some democracy involved as to what gets to be called lore though, and if you've previously been unhappy with the outcome, it's only because you haven't been there to make the difference, to be brutally honest.

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Originally Posted by Wulfang View Post
However, what I don't like is the means through which the wiki functions. Creating pages with information that can be editied by anyone even if they don't have any knowledge of it is a recipe for sure chaos.
That's what I used to believe too. But the saving grace is that people that really do not have any idea about a topic don't give a sh*t about that topic. They won't edit it. Except for a handful of pimple-faced youths that just go on a rampage on random pages, and they're caught by the recent changes patrol and get reverted. Typically within hours.

What really does tend to happen is that you get people that actually KNOW what they're talking about help you out. Or people with better grammar come in and fix your english. Or people with too much time on their hands run around and screenshot stuff and put in nice images in your articles. Or ... or ... or ...

And, for the love of god. Remember that this is a bleeping video game we're talking about here. It's not like I'm suggesting we go and create a rocket scientist manual via wiki


On a sidenote, I'd love to see "See also" links around the lore section pointing to interesting and valid forum topics here on SoL. It could provide more insight for wiki visitors than can't easily be given in an encyclopaedic article!


I dunno... this all just seems like a win-win situation to me. A win for you guys, getting stuff out that you know is right (cause you've got the sources, right? ). And a win to joe warcraft player visiting wowwiki and getting a fix of lore while he's at it.

Is it a win to WoWWiki? Err. WoWWiki can't win. It's a bloody non-profit tool that Rustak lets people use. WoWWiki doesn't give a sh*t. (I'd personally be happy though, cause from what I'm hearing here there's been some serious misinformation going on here and there on the wiki, and I personally am not happy about that. Problem is, I really don't care enough about lore myself to fix things.)


If anyone here wants to reach me on the wiki (I'm an admin on there), leave a note on http://www.wowwiki.com/User:Mikk.

If you want to make your presense known to other lore addicts, try http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki_talk:Bookkeepers

Or if you want to get the attention of wiki editors in general, shout out at http://www.wowwiki.com/WoWWiki:Village_pump


Oh, and on a closing note: If you still want to put up a read-only super lore site here on scrollsoflore... keep in mind that you can just use the wiki as an editing tool and copy&paste stuff over when you're "done"? All contributions are GPLd, so you can just copy stuff over when it's "finished". I'm only suggesting this because I'm seeing lots of forumgoers here offer to help out with creating the site but not really being able to.

Last edited by Mikk; 04-28-2007 at 01:45 AM.. Reason: typos
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  #28  
Old 04-28-2007, 02:49 AM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pliny the Elder
True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read; and in so living as to make the world happier for our living in it.

Co-creator of UFS, a joint urban fantasy setting.
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  #29  
Old 04-28-2007, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikk View Post
Aight. I'll try to make this my last annoyance here, I promise
.............


EDIT: No offense meant by the above. That was just my way of saying that this is a pretty old pointless arguement for SoL and Wowwiki, we should just leave it at this seeing as everyone has individual opinions on the matter that probably won't be changed anyway.
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Last edited by peppelapuke; 05-22-2008 at 07:07 AM..
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  #30  
Old 04-28-2007, 05:19 AM
Vicious Vicious is offline

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That was just my way of saying that this is a pretty old pointless arguement for SoL and Wowwiki, we should just leave it at this seeing as everyone has individual opinions on the matter that probably won't be changed anyway.
Quoted for truth.

Why are we still discussing this?

Also, big usage of smilies makes us friends.
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Last edited by Vicious; 04-28-2007 at 05:23 AM..
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  #31  
Old 04-28-2007, 05:45 AM
Mikk Mikk is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicious View Post
Why are we still discussing this?
Mostly because I'm an argumentative old sod that hates seeing will and drive to improve things go, as it were, nowhere

Either way, I think you guys are in for a fun and painful learning experience once you do get things up and running (two and a half years and counting now ? =) ) From the little I've seen by browsing through some threads, there's people with opinions ranging from "it ain't lore until it's in the game" (I assume WoW?) all the way through "the problem with WoWWiki is that it's only about WoW" (which aint' true anyway )


Peace and love to all


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Also, big usage of smilies makes us friends.
QFT

Last edited by Mikk; 04-28-2007 at 05:46 AM.. Reason: typo
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  #32  
Old 05-22-2008, 07:08 AM
peppelapuke peppelapuke is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timolas View Post
EDIT: No offense meant by the above. That was just my way of saying that this is a pretty old pointless arguement for SoL and Wowwiki, we should just leave it at this seeing as everyone has individual opinions on the matter that probably won't be changed anyway.


Timolas, that was a very rude picture, never post anything like that again. This is your only warning.
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  #33  
Old 05-22-2008, 07:35 AM
Timolas Timolas is offline


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Quote:
Originally Posted by peppelapuke View Post
Timolas, that was a very rude picture, never post anything like that again. This is your only warning.
Sweet Jimmy, this thread is so old I'm not even sure what you're talking about.
But you mean to tell me you came back after two years to tell me you found whatever it was that offended your soul, offensive?

If memory serves, whatever that picture was it can't be 'rude'.
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  #34  
Old 05-22-2008, 08:18 AM
Warlock Warlock is offline

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Yeah that was weird
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  #35  
Old 05-22-2008, 09:32 AM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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Wow a 15 post old admin!

I guess im a newblood
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Megatron: You've forgotten something else: I am your prisoner. I've been granted conditional bail while we look for the Knights of Cybertron. Where in my bail terms does it say—where precisely does it say—that I have to risk my life to save a handful of strangers? Where does it say that?

Skids taps Megatron's Autobot badge.

Skids: Right. There. What does that badge even mean to you? How has wearing it forced you to modify your behaviour? I'm serious! How has being an Autobot in any way prevented you from doing exactly what you want? Because if the answer is "it hasn't"—then nothing you've said or done in the last six months counts for anything.
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  #36  
Old 05-22-2008, 09:41 AM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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What are Beowulf, Peppe and keith up to nowadays, Warlock? You know them IRL, right?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pliny the Elder
True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read; and in so living as to make the world happier for our living in it.

Co-creator of UFS, a joint urban fantasy setting.
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  #37  
Old 05-22-2008, 12:25 PM
Vicious Vicious is offline

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Most pointless administration i ever saw in a forum.

Ever.
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Warlock, Lord of Scrolls of Lore: Shut up, Timolas
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  #38  
Old 05-22-2008, 12:31 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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6 more days and it would have been a year late.
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  #39  
Old 05-22-2008, 12:44 PM
Warlock Warlock is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerrah View Post
What are Beowulf, Peppe and keith up to nowadays, Warlock? You know them IRL, right?
I know them in WoW. Though I haven't seen Beo in ages. Keith is still around the site, he just doesn't post much (i.e. if something is broken, then it gets fixed, that's generally him )
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  #40  
Old 05-22-2008, 01:53 PM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlock View Post
I know them in WoW. Though I haven't seen Beo in ages. Keith is still around the site, he just doesn't post much (i.e. if something is broken, then it gets fixed, that's generally him )
And peppe is walking around, waiting for a purpose to give someone a warning? Really, maybe that was not the man supposed to be under that nick?
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  #41  
Old 05-22-2008, 01:55 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Now that I'm actually thinking about this topic...
Why don't we just form a SoL group on WoWWiki and raid the hell out of the place with valid information?
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  #42  
Old 05-22-2008, 02:01 PM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Now that I'm actually thinking about this topic...
Why don't we just form a SoL group on WoWWiki and raid the hell out of the place with valid information?
K but I get plate drops
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Quote:
Megatron: You've forgotten something else: I am your prisoner. I've been granted conditional bail while we look for the Knights of Cybertron. Where in my bail terms does it say—where precisely does it say—that I have to risk my life to save a handful of strangers? Where does it say that?

Skids taps Megatron's Autobot badge.

Skids: Right. There. What does that badge even mean to you? How has wearing it forced you to modify your behaviour? I'm serious! How has being an Autobot in any way prevented you from doing exactly what you want? Because if the answer is "it hasn't"—then nothing you've said or done in the last six months counts for anything.
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  #43  
Old 05-22-2008, 06:06 PM
peppelapuke peppelapuke is offline

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Post was reported for moderation: Timolas had a lemonparty picture up. Doesn't matter if the post was old, clearly someone ran into it and was offended.
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  #44  
Old 05-22-2008, 06:14 PM
Yuber8900 Yuber8900 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by peppelapuke View Post
Post was reported for moderation: Timolas had a lemonparty picture up. Doesn't matter if the post was old, clearly someone ran into it and was offended.
My eyes!
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  #45  
Old 05-22-2008, 06:14 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by peppelapuke View Post
Post was reported for moderation: Timolas had a lemonparty picture up. Doesn't matter if the post was old, clearly someone ran into it and was offended.
He probably hotlinked to a site owned by someone that doesn't take too kindly to such things...
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  #46  
Old 05-22-2008, 06:34 PM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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O that lemonparty.

That is so not my kind of party
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Quote:
Megatron: You've forgotten something else: I am your prisoner. I've been granted conditional bail while we look for the Knights of Cybertron. Where in my bail terms does it say—where precisely does it say—that I have to risk my life to save a handful of strangers? Where does it say that?

Skids taps Megatron's Autobot badge.

Skids: Right. There. What does that badge even mean to you? How has wearing it forced you to modify your behaviour? I'm serious! How has being an Autobot in any way prevented you from doing exactly what you want? Because if the answer is "it hasn't"—then nothing you've said or done in the last six months counts for anything.
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  #47  
Old 05-22-2008, 07:45 PM
Darkwind Darkwind is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Now that I'm actually thinking about this topic...
Why don't we just form a SoL group on WoWWiki and raid the hell out of the place with valid information?
It's not a terrible idea, per se, but I have a feeling we'd be beaten. Mikk said that Appendix III is on there because WoWWiki is meant to be all-encompassing of all things Warcraft.

SoL isn't. It's specifically for Lore, and I'm assuming it's going to be a bit more subjegtive then the wiki is.
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  #48  
Old 05-23-2008, 03:46 AM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by peppelapuke View Post
Post was reported for moderation: Timolas had a lemonparty picture up. Doesn't matter if the post was old, clearly someone ran into it and was offended.
But what made you interested in it after two years of inexistence, according to another users?

Hell, we can try to create our own group on WoWWiki. I already have an account there and using it actively.
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  #49  
Old 05-23-2008, 05:17 AM
Timolas Timolas is offline


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Quote:
Originally Posted by peppelapuke View Post
Post was reported for moderation: Timolas had a lemonparty picture up. Doesn't matter if the post was old, clearly someone ran into it and was offended.
Lemonparty?
Wait just a second.

I must have one hell of a memory gap. Because by Jove, I'm not that sick and twisted.
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  #50  
Old 05-23-2008, 05:41 AM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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I'm going with Kak's theory.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pliny the Elder
True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read; and in so living as to make the world happier for our living in it.

Co-creator of UFS, a joint urban fantasy setting.
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