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  #5701  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:19 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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Originally Posted by Mustrum View Post
The anger, he is saying, is justified by Blizzard's apathy and disregard for the original characterization of the Alliance.

But sure, if you want to join in with the talking shit, go right ahead.
I like you for this post.
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Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
  #5702  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:20 PM
Grunn Grunn is offline

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Originally Posted by Mustrum View Post
The anger, he is saying, is justified by Blizzard's apathy and disregard for the original characterization of the Alliance.

But sure, if you want to join in with the talking shit, go right ahead.
Getting angry over a fictional faction is never "justified".
  #5703  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:22 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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Originally Posted by Grunn View Post
Getting angry over a fictional faction is never "justified".
"the faction of carebears"

You aren't exact Mr. Moral superiority yourself.

And I think most of us are able to seperate our anger about factions. I'm not "angry" that the Horde exists - I like the Horde as much as I like the Alliance.

I don't like that the Alliance has had almost no attention paid to it in the last few expansions, thus making it rather dull and boring to replay, whereas Horde has epic replay value.
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Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
  #5704  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:22 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by Grunn View Post
Getting angry over a fictional faction is never "justified".
I think that kinda covers 40% of the people on this forum. Partly since any other forum has banned them or would ban them if they acted out like they do here.
  #5705  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:24 PM
Mustrum Mustrum is offline

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Originally Posted by Grunn View Post
Getting angry over a fictional faction is never "justified".
Yes it is. Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.
  #5706  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:25 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Originally Posted by Mustrum View Post
The anger, he is saying, is justified by Blizzard's apathy and disregard for the original characterization of the Alliance.
The thing is, not even the night elves were originally portrayed as having a tendency for brutal displays of slaughter. Not once were they ever portrayed stuffing heads on pikes, crucifying people, not even to their hated enemies the satyrs.

There is only one race on the Alliance that I could see going for such brutality, and that's the worgen. For all the night elves strength in Warcraft 3, their "savagery" is vastly overplayed. The only thing savage about them was their clothing. And even then, their clothing was ridiculously ornate for a bunch of "feral forest elves" like so many people claimed they were.

I find that a lot of people are simply asking for night elves that never were.


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Can't we have both?

No, but seriously, there are major differences of opinion regarding how the Alliance story should develop. Personally, I want there to be introfactional friction between those who, as you say, crucify headless orcs on the roads in Ashenvale and those who are unwilling to sacrifice their moral high ground for anything. The player, ideally, should fall somewhere in between, and be given the choice to take bloody, vicious quests from one side of the ideological divide or pacific, restorative quests from the other.
I certainly think that'd be interesting, as I'm quite fond of introspective stories and whatnot, but it's really gotta be handled well for it to be pulled off. Also, there's also the challenge of getting it to fit. I could see such a story fitting perfectly for the worgen. Not so much the entirety of the Alliance, though.
  #5707  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:27 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by cosmictimelion View Post
There is only one race on the Alliance that I could see going for such brutality, and that's the worgen. For all the night elves strength in Warcraft 3, their "savagery" is vastly overplayed. The only thing savage about them was their clothing. And even then, their clothing was ridiculously ornate for a bunch of "feral forest elves" like so many people claimed they were.

I find that a lot of people are simply asking for night elves that never were.
.
I think a lot of them confuse 1 line said by Hellscream as meaning they were a incredibly savage race. The only 'savage' elves we saw never even made it into WC3 and that was the concept art in the WC3 manual with them having blood on their faces and etc.
  #5708  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:28 PM
Grunn Grunn is offline

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Originally Posted by Quirnheim View Post
"the faction of carebears"

You aren't exact Mr. Moral superiority yourself.

And I think most of us are able to seperate our anger about factions. I'm not "angry" that the Horde exists - I like the Horde as much as I like the Alliance.

I don't like that the Alliance has had almost no attention paid to it in the last few expansions, thus making it rather dull and boring to replay, whereas Horde has epic replay value.
I interpret the jist of "Millenia's" post to be "I'm angry because my faction is a bunch of carebears in-game, so the answer clearly is to compensate in faction forum wars!"

Don't try and interpret that as an attempt at insulting the Alliance fanbase (we all know the Human paladins are just as gank happy as the undead rogues).
  #5709  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:29 PM
Mustrum Mustrum is offline

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Originally Posted by cosmictimelion View Post
The thing is, not even the night elves were originally portrayed as having a tendency for brutal displays of slaughter. Not once were they ever portrayed stuffing heads on pikes, crucifying people, not even to their hated enemies the satyrs.

There is only one race on the Alliance that I could see going for such brutality, and that's the worgen. For all the night elves strength in Warcraft 3, their "savagery" is vastly overplayed. The only thing savage about them was their clothing. And even then, their clothing was ridiculously ornate for a bunch of "feral forest elves" like so many people claimed they were.

I find that a lot of people are simply asking for night elves that never were.
You have a good point here. Night Elves were never cruel. But they were effective. One might even say ruthless. And they had long memories, inclined to remember old grudges. I don't want to see Night Elves skinning Orcs alive. Leave that to the Worgen and the crazy humans. No, I want to see them wiping out Orcish expeditions, leaving no traces, and vanishing as though they were never there.

And while we're on the subject of the impossible, a missile pony would be nice.
  #5710  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:31 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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Originally Posted by Mustrum View Post
You have a good point here. Night Elves were never cruel. But they were effective. One might even say ruthless. And they had long memories, inclined to remember old grudges. I don't want to see Night Elves skinning Orcs alive. Leave that to the Worgen and the crazy humans. No, I want to see them wiping out Orcish expeditions, leaving no traces, and vanishing as though they were never there.

And while we're on the subject of the impossible, a missile pony would be nice.
That's the thing. Night Elves were good at what they did, and they did it with ruthless precision.

In WoW< the Elves(and the Alliance in general) are portrayed as utterly stupid and racist to a point that these people seem to be in 7th grade military wise.

OH LET"S JUST SEND OUR FORCES ALL IN AT ONCE NO FLANKING WOOO
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Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
  #5711  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:34 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
I think a lot of them confuse 1 line said by Hellscream as meaning they were a incredibly savage race. The only 'savage' elves we saw never even made it into WC3 and that was the concept art in the WC3 manual with them having blood on their faces and etc.
The funny thing is that Grom was comparing them to high elves. Anything is more savage-looking than a high elf.

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Originally Posted by Mustrum View Post
You have a good point here. Night Elves were never cruel. But they were effective. One might even say ruthless. And they had long memories, inclined to remember old grudges. I don't want to see Night Elves skinning Orcs alive. Leave that to the Worgen and the crazy humans. No, I want to see them wiping out Orcish expeditions, leaving no traces, and vanishing as though they were never there.

And while we're on the subject of the impossible, a missile pony would be nice.
Yeah. If Blizzard is going to go a certain route with the night elves, they should be depicted as cold and detached. Firing off arrows with stone cold faces. Unconcerned with their appearance. Blood spatters on their face and clothes? They stand there silently, not even caring to wipe it off of them.

Right now, the night elves are way too weepy and emotional. The blood elves actually come off as an older race than they. You don't see blood elves crying and moaning nearly as much as you see night elves do it.
  #5712  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:35 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by cosmictimelion View Post
The funny thing is that Grom was comparing them to high elves. Anything is more savage-looking than a high elf.



Yeah. If Blizzard is going to go a certain route with the night elves, they should be depicted as cold and detached. Firing off arrows with stone cold faces. Unconcerned with their appearance. Blood spatters on their face and clothes? They stand there silently, not even caring to wipe it off of them.

Right now, the night elves are way too weepy and emotional. The blood elves actually come off as an older race than they. You don't see blood elves crying and moaning nearly as much as you see night elves do it.
Yea honestly I find the characterization of the blood elves so much better as the old elvish race. I mean, part of that is due to the fact that Blizz kinda made half the night elf things neutral but still.

Last edited by Leviathon; 02-09-2012 at 06:38 PM..
  #5713  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:41 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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I'm just confused at how people could have possibly played WC3, then come to the forums saying stuff like: "WE WANT OUR OLD NIGHT ELVES BACK! WE WANT TO BATHE IN ORC BLOOD!"

Night elves were never portrayed doing shit like that. Ironically, it's only recently in Cataclysm, with the Desolace artifact chain, that we've seen anything that could even hint towards that kind of behavior.

Kind of funny how the expansion "that most fucked over the Kaldorei" is the expansion that revealed the first hints of true barbarity in the night elf race.
  #5714  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:43 PM
Mustrum Mustrum is offline

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Originally Posted by cosmictimelion View Post
I'm just confused at how people could have possibly played WC3, then come to the forums saying stuff like: "WE WANT OUR OLD NIGHT ELVES BACK! WE WANT TO BATHE IN ORC BLOOD!"

Night elves were never portrayed doing shit like that. Ironically, it's only recently in Cataclysm, with the Desolace artifact chain, that we've seen anything that could even hint towards that kind of behavior.
Part of it, I suspect, is the fact that while all the stops are out for the Horde in this war, the Alliance remains passive. It aggravates already impatient players and drives them to demand more than they initially thought they wanted.
  #5715  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:45 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Originally Posted by Mustrum View Post
Part of it, I suspect, is the fact that while all the stops are out for the Horde in this war, the Alliance remains passive. It aggravates already impatient players and drives them to demand more than they initially thought they wanted.
I understand that. I believe Blizzard truly dropped the ball when it came to the worgen. They were supposed to be the Alliance's answer to all these problems. Yeah, it's cool that they do suicide bombings in Silverpine and shit, but after that they just become fuzzy night elves. Really sucks.
  #5716  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:45 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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They still were called "perfect warriors". By orcs. We need to see more of that
  #5717  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:49 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Originally Posted by GenyaArikado View Post
They still were called "perfect warriors". By orcs. We need to see more of that
Theoretically, someone who can shoot while being invisible does sound like the perfect warrior.

However, it's obvious they weren't perfect. The Warsong Clan slaughtered many elves. There's even pictures of the carnage.

Got a feeling Ferlion's gonna come in here soon talking about "game mechanics aren't lore. It depends on what difficulty you had the game, etc." If you read this Ferlion, calm down. I'm talking about pictures. Visual displays of lore.

Last edited by Frostwolf; 02-09-2012 at 06:52 PM..
  #5718  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:52 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Originally Posted by Grunn View Post
So you realized you were playing a carebear faction and decided the best way to deal with it was to talk shit and roleplay angry xenophobes on the forums?
People can get passionate and irrational and thus act silly.

But talking about things on the forums is the only way to voice displeasure.

I can go do For the Alliance on a daily basis, but even if such attempts are successful, what would that say to Blizzard? It's not like they'd notice one specific character getting faction leader kills on a daily basis.

I can go to BGs and win some of them, but there is no indication that Blizzard changes storylines based on Alliance/Horde win ratios for BGs.

I can run around killing every flagged and non-flagged Horde NPC I can find, but would they even notice without someone putting in a ticket for me killing a certain questgiver X times in an hour? And would that even result in anything more than a chiding?

Even if I go out and buy every Alliance centric comic and book, Blizzard is unlikely to notice the slight uptick of sales. Unfortunately, I'm not Batman, so I can hardly buy them all out. And what would Blizzard even get from that?

I don't have a direct line to any of the developers, and even if I did would they even read it among the pile of hundreds they likely get every day?

So, in the end, the only possible outlet is bitching on the forums. At least Blizzard noticed that.

Also, what Mustrum said.

Finally, your abrasive language is ill-conducive to proper dialogue. If you did not intend proper dialogue, then I suggest not proposing questions that aren't accusatory, sarcastic, or loaded. Or if your question was one of the above, then I apologize for missing the intent. Unfortunately, I am oftentimes ignorant of certain social subtleties. (Here is a good opportunity to point out my ignorance of a proper dispassionate state of mind when discussing perceived flaws in World of Warcraft, probably in a manner that is amusing to your fellow Horde players.)

Last edited by Millenia; 02-09-2012 at 06:54 PM..
  #5719  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:56 PM
Slywyn Slywyn is offline

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Mustrum, did you level a Nelf recently or something?
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  #5720  
Old 02-09-2012, 06:57 PM
Mustrum Mustrum is offline

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Mustrum, did you level a Nelf recently or something?
Hardly. I'm just an omniscient badass.
  #5721  
Old 02-09-2012, 07:03 PM
Slywyn Slywyn is offline

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Hardly. I'm just an omniscient badass.
*moves respect-o-meter up a few notches*
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  #5722  
Old 02-09-2012, 07:06 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Originally Posted by cosmictimelion View Post
Theoretically, someone who can shoot while being invisible does sound like the perfect warrior.

However, it's obvious they weren't perfect. The Warsong Clan slaughtered many elves. There's even pictures of the carnage.

Got a feeling Ferlion's gonna come in here soon talking about "game mechanics aren't lore. It depends on what difficulty you had the game, etc." If you read this Ferlion, calm down. I'm talking about pictures. Visual displays of lore.
Of course they would lose people. But the Night Elves still rolfstomped the orcs until they drank Manny blood. They are superior.
  #5723  
Old 02-09-2012, 07:09 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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I should note that the "us vs them" mentality was deliberately encouraged by Blizzard. The same Blizzard that is "surprised" at said mentality, yet keeps on feeding it regardless.
  #5724  
Old 02-09-2012, 07:11 PM
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I should note that the "us vs them" mentality was deliberately encouraged by Blizzard. The same Blizzard that is "surprised" at said mentality, yet keeps on feeding it regardless.
Alpha Squadron wouldn't have sent such mixed signals. Now that's what I call sloppy.
  #5725  
Old 02-09-2012, 07:14 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Very sloppy indeed.

Especially since Blizzard's egging on is mainly in the form of pandering to the Horde non-stop. And giving them the Alliance's stuff. And all that other stuff that's been ranted about since forever and a half ago.
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