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  #6151  
Old 07-31-2018, 06:54 AM
Peger Peger is offline

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I think it's going to be Azshara. It seems pretty obvious that the faction war is being manipulated by the void/old gods and is going to end in the Alliance & Horde temporarily putting aside their differences and taking on the Naga/N'zoth. Having Azshara escalate the faction war would fit where they're taking the story.
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  #6152  
Old 07-31-2018, 07:21 AM
zoombini zoombini is offline

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My assumption is that the tree will be set on fire, Sylvanas will clearly be surprised, but they won't show exactly how it happened.

Then a couple patches later Azshara/N'Zoth will pull a "Yes, 'twas *I* who set the tree ablaze!" during their villain speech.
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  #6153  
Old 07-31-2018, 07:29 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Hopeful guess: Tyrande or Khadgar.

Nice twist: Saurfang.

Probably: Malfurion or Sylvanas.
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  #6154  
Old 07-31-2018, 08:28 AM
GIPlayer GIPlayer is offline

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Good. Sylvanas as boss confirmed.

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  #6155  
Old 07-31-2018, 08:32 AM
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This whole situation is stupid, but this was still a better decision than "the old gods tricked us yet again!"
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  #6156  
Old 07-31-2018, 08:40 AM
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As a piece exploring Sylvanas' character, it's fine. Not as good as Jaina's, but good enough. I'm glad that finally the charade is over and she's exposed.

As the cinematic that plays when Teldrassil is burned, it's very underwhelming. This is a huge event, and it's wasted by only showing Sylvanas' PoV. I'd like to see Tyrande's, Nathanos' and Saurfang's reactions at the very least.

(And the way the tree was set on fire was very underwhelming. I expected some azerite shenanigans. It feels forced that catapults would set it ablaze so quickly, and from miles away)
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  #6157  
Old 07-31-2018, 09:03 AM
Sa'danak Sa'danak is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
This whole situation is stupid, but this was still a better decision than "the old gods tricked us yet again!"
I'd normally agree but when you keep going into interviews saying shit like "Trust us, you guys just don't get the full story. Nobody is as black and white as it appears right now!" then well, it doesn't reflect nicely on them to say the least. At least typical boring old gods shenanigans would've actually been in character...
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  #6158  
Old 07-31-2018, 09:10 AM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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So Garrosh nukes Theramore in the MoP prepatch.

Sylvannas nukes Teldrassil in the BfA prepatch.

This is literally MoP 2.0. What a fucking shit show....
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  #6159  
Old 07-31-2018, 09:15 AM
Deicide Deicide is online now

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sa'danak View Post
I'd normally agree but when you keep going into interviews saying shit like "Trust us, you guys just don't get the full story. Nobody is as black and white as it appears right now!" then well, it doesn't reflect nicely on them to say the least. At least typical boring old gods shenanigans would've actually been in character...
Sylvanas being evil is very in-character as well. And a way better story than a copout tentacle conspiracy. If we are doing war, let's do it properly.

Blizzard never hinted at there being a secret perpetrator in this atrocity. If anything, the only thing they keep saying we didn't know was the motivations behind it.

I'm now feeling more confortable with BfA's story. I'm glad Blizzard had the courage to finally expose Sylvanas' true character (which was clear as day, but people refused to see it), rather than introduce some non-sense plot twist to just keep the factions fighting.

The "morally grey" part is going to be explored not in Sylvanas, but in how the Horde will deal with her, and how the Alliance will react.
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  #6160  
Old 07-31-2018, 09:16 AM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Where do I buy these super long range nuclear catapults?
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  #6161  
Old 07-31-2018, 09:24 AM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
The "morally grey" part is going to be explored not in Sylvanas, but in how the Horde will deal with her, and how the Alliance will react.
Except we already did all that in Mists...
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  #6162  
Old 07-31-2018, 09:28 AM
Sa'danak Sa'danak is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Sylvanas being evil is very in-character as well. And a way better story than a copout tentacle conspiracy. If we are doing war, let's do it properly.

Blizzard never hinted at there being a secret perpetrator in this atrocity. If anything, the only thing they keep saying we didn't know was the motivations behind it.

I'm now feeling more confortable with BfA's story. I'm glad Blizzard had the courage to finally expose Sylvanas' true character (which was clear as day, but people refused to see it), rather than introduce some non-sense plot twist to just keep the factions fighting.

The "morally grey" part is going to be explored not in Sylvanas, but in how the Horde will deal with her, and how the Alliance will react.
I never said that Sylvanas wasn't evil. She is and likely always was but the difference is that beforehand the writing was simply sensible enough to allow for the realistic outcome of the Horde coming down on her harder than a tonne of bricks if she was ever stupid enough to go full supervillain. Now they've got around that problem by simply...pretending it isn't there. It is impossible to reasonably explian that the entire Horde, sans one single orc, that just recently deposed Garrosh for a lot less, would not even question this act.

If we are doing a war, doing it properly begins with not ignoring logical sense.
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  #6163  
Old 07-31-2018, 09:53 AM
Deicide Deicide is online now

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sa'danak View Post
I never said that Sylvanas wasn't evil. She is and likely always was but the difference is that beforehand the writing was simply sensible enough to allow for the realistic outcome of the Horde coming down on her harder than a tonne of bricks if she was ever stupid enough to go full supervillain. Now they've got around that problem by simply...pretending it isn't there. It is impossible to reasonably explian that the entire Horde, sans one single orc, that just recently deposed Garrosh for a lot less, would not even question this act.

If we are doing a war, doing it properly begins with not ignoring logical sense.
Once the momentum starts, it's hard to stop. It was not Garrosh bombing Theramore that made the Horde stop following him, it was him abusing of his position as Warchief. I do not expect Sylvanas to do the same mistake. Saurfang is the exception, not the rule, among the Horde.

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Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
Except we already did all that in Mists...
MoP was cut short by Garrosh antagonizing the Horde and making it turn against him, then the Alliance willingly stopping the bloodshed once he was dealt with.

Don't expect Sylvanas to do the same mistake.
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  #6164  
Old 07-31-2018, 10:00 AM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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https://twitter.com/ChristieGolden/s...339233280?s=09

It begins. Wheel of blame, turn turn turn. Which creative director shall we spurn?
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  #6165  
Old 07-31-2018, 10:01 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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  #6166  
Old 07-31-2018, 10:14 AM
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Hey, he she got praised by the Op, so I don't think she's lying about her involvement here to prevent getting shitstormed.

My two cents:

Well.. it's MOP 2.0. Only without Pandas.

And yeah, Blizzard really dropped any subtility here. Need more hints?

http://ptr.wowhead.com/quest=52981/killer-queen

Yeah, the final Questline Quest is called "Killer Queen".
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  #6167  
Old 07-31-2018, 10:25 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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>MORALLY GREY


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  #6168  
Old 07-31-2018, 10:28 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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Yeah, if they wanted to create a meme..... Mission accomplished.
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  #6169  
Old 07-31-2018, 10:32 AM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
MoP was cut short by Garrosh antagonizing the Horde and making it turn against him, then the Alliance willingly stopping the bloodshed once he was dealt with.

Don't expect Sylvanas to do the same mistake.
That's the problem right there. Burning Teldrasil should have antagonized the Horde already, if we're talking the idea of Thrall's and Voljin's Horde. You know, the Horde that appeared to take the reigns again in WoD.
Why are those exact people now just standing by doing nothing about it?
Why are our characters railroaded into jumping through every hoop Sylvanas throws at us again? I do not want to have my main character be complicit in this because that's not who she is.
So what am i supposed to do with her? Pull a Khadgar and have her sit all of this out in the Hall of Shadows?
Unfotunately I already bought the XPac. I guess this is why they kept this a secret. They knew it might hurt sales.
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  #6170  
Old 07-31-2018, 10:37 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
That's the problem right there. Burning Teldrasil should have antagonized the Horde already, if we're talking the idea of Thrall's and Voljin's Horde. You know, the Horde that appeared to take the reigns again in WoD.
Why are those exact people now just standing by doing nothing about it?
Why are our characters railroaded into jumping through every hoop Sylvanas throws at us again? I do not want to have my main character be complicit in this because that's not who she is.
So what am i supposed to do with her? Pull a Khadgar and have her sit all of this out in the Hall of Shadows?
Unfotunately I already bought the XPac. I guess this is why they kept this a secret. They knew it might hurt sales.
I imagine they'll handwave it as "Vol'jin is dead and Thrall is God knows where so there's no one to rally that part of the Horde".
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  #6171  
Old 07-31-2018, 10:37 AM
Temo Temo is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyalin V. Raintree View Post
https://twitter.com/ChristieGolden/s...339233280?s=09

It begins. Wheel of blame, turn turn turn. Which creative director shall we spurn?
Blame for what? Sylvanas being evil has been a looooong time coming. People are not upset over burning a damn tree, but over the implication that they are not "the good guys" in the story. Remember theres a lot of liberals playing this game, its them claiming #notmywarchief.
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  #6172  
Old 07-31-2018, 10:45 AM
Sa'danak Sa'danak is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Once the momentum starts, it's hard to stop. It was not Garrosh bombing Theramore that made the Horde stop following him, it was him abusing of his position as Warchief. I do not expect Sylvanas to do the same mistake. Saurfang is the exception, not the rule, among the Horde.
Please explain how burning thousands of innocents without reason and igniting a faction war literally no-one but her wants all whilst being well known as shady and dishonourable amongst the founding Horde races doesn't count as "abusing your position".

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Originally Posted by Temo View Post
Blame for what? Sylvanas being evil has been a looooong time coming. People are not upset over burning a damn tree, but over the implication that they are not "the good guys" in the story. Remember theres a lot of liberals playing this game, its them claiming #notmywarchief.
Jesus Christ. We really are at the point where people are trying to claim "Liberals" are the problem...with their opinions on a videogame? Not everything in life is a political circlejerk. Go back to 4chan.

Last edited by Sa'danak; 07-31-2018 at 10:52 AM..
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  #6173  
Old 07-31-2018, 10:45 AM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
Unfotunately I already bought the XPac. I guess this is why they kept this a secret. They knew it might hurt sales.
It might be instructive to remember the sunk cost fallacy. If you are dissatisfied with the story, the fact that you already spent $60 on it is not a reason to spend 60 more every three to four months. If you would enjoy it regardless? That's a different story, but as the forum accountant, I would be remiss to ignore such fallacies of personal finance.

As for the fraud (it fits the four legal elements, although good luck bringing a case), it may be just that I'm a Night Elf fan and am used to being lied to or misled about what to expect, but I don't see why this a surprise. These people have been fundamentally untrustworthy for years, and they're not about to stop.

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  #6174  
Old 07-31-2018, 10:49 AM
Deicide Deicide is online now

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
That's the problem right there. Burning Teldrasil should have antagonized the Horde already, if we're talking the idea of Thrall's and Voljin's Horde. You know, the Horde that appeared to take the reigns again in WoD.
Thrall's Horde is dead. Vol'jin died before he could revive it.

The shit hitting the fan was clear the moment Sylvanas took over.

Quote:
Why are those exact people now just standing by doing nothing about it?
Because they are full of resentment, and they lie to themselves that this war is for the Horde's benefit.

Quote:
Why are our characters railroaded into jumping through every hoop Sylvanas throws at us again? I do not want to have my main character be complicit in this because that's not who she is.
Because that's the nature of this game.

Quote:
So what am i supposed to do with her? Pull a Khadgar and have her sit all of this out in the Hall of Shadows?
There will be payback. But things will get worse before they get better.

You may not like it, but Blizzard made me trust BfA more, rather than less. This is what I wanted, considering that there would be war. Not some misunderstanding from characters that strive for peace, but a real declaration of war and all the atrocities that follow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vineyard View Post
Well.. it's MOP 2.0. Only without Pandas.
Doesn't that make it better than MoP already? No Taran Zhu giving us moral lessons that he himself does not uphold. No pandas saying the Alliance is wrong for fighting the Horde, not putting both factions as equally responsible for the bloodshed.

No punches being pulled, finally!

Quote:
And yeah, Blizzard really dropped any subtility here. Need more hints?

http://ptr.wowhead.com/quest=52981/killer-queen

Yeah, the final Questline Quest is called "Killer Queen".
Considering Sylvanas experimented with prisoners, plague-bombed civilians, raised undead, invaded neutral kingdoms, murdered people and tried to enslave demigodesses, and yet people still insisted on Sylvanas being a sympathetic character, Blizzard is very right in finally hammering it down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sa'danak View Post
Please explain how burning thousands of innocents without reason and igniting a faction war literally no-one but her wants all whilst being well known as shady and dishonourable amongst the founding Horde races doesn't count as "abusing your position".
The Horde is as shady and dishonourable as her. The bright spots among the Horde have been silenced or subdued. The Horde learned nothing from Orgrimmar, and the guy that could have changed that died too soon to make any difference.

That's the tragedy of the Horde. And that's why this war is necessary.
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  #6175  
Old 07-31-2018, 11:05 AM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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It's not like the Horde will ever get a suitable comeuppance for once again warring on the Alliance. They've been getting breaks from the devs for awhile now.
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