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  #176  
Old 03-10-2018, 12:13 PM
Mordecay Mordecay is offline

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Blizz said that things that are not mentioned in the Chronicles, but are in other canon sources, are still canon, so Deathwing/Prestor still could have wanted to become a king.
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  #177  
Old 03-10-2018, 12:27 PM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Just because it isn't mentioned, doesn't mean it's retconned. Unless it directly contradicts something. Didn't Blizz say something like that in V2?
They did.
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  #178  
Old 03-10-2018, 12:45 PM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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Yeah, but we can assume they made a slight retcons considering his disappearence, so that the Prestor Family still being very influencual makes more sense.

(It's basically how they retconned the ending of "Of Blood and Honor" aka the Tirion/Eitrigg story.)
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  #179  
Old 03-10-2018, 01:29 PM
Mordecay Mordecay is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vineyard View Post
(It's basically how they retconned the ending of "Of Blood and Honor" aka the Tirion/Eitrigg story.)
What's retconned there?
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  #180  
Old 03-10-2018, 02:26 PM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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The Original Short Story ending has Tirion secretly watching how Taelan is introduced into the Order of the Silver Hand.

This is also 15 years after he was exiled, since Taelan is five at the beginning and twenty when he becomes a Paladin.

(Reminder. Metzen wrote this story back in 2000.)

If I remember correctly, there has been a slight hommage to this scene in the Epilogue of the Ashbringer Comic.

Last edited by Vineyard; 03-10-2018 at 02:36 PM..
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  #181  
Old 03-10-2018, 02:30 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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We've suspected for a while that the maps are inaccurate. The artworks were made by professional artists, so I consider them canon in absolute. I'll only consider a map completely canon when they're drawn by a professional cartographer.
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  #182  
Old 03-10-2018, 04:09 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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I smell necrophotic
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  #183  
Old 03-10-2018, 04:40 PM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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http://de.wowhead.com/news=282563/wo...n-amazon-and-p

More stuff.

And an explaination, why we haven't heard of Kul'tiras for a decade.
Their people were pissed because of Dealin's death. And they fully blame Jaina and hate her.

They also tell how Benedictus got corrupted and that it was Cho'gall, who weakend the Prison of Yogg Saron.

Last edited by Vineyard; 03-10-2018 at 04:50 PM..
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  #184  
Old 03-10-2018, 05:59 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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What did Jaina help the Horde against Daelin for again?
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  #185  
Old 03-11-2018, 01:05 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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  #186  
Old 03-11-2018, 08:33 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
We've suspected for a while that the maps are inaccurate. The artworks were made by professional artists, so I consider them canon in absolute. I'll only consider a map completely canon when they're drawn by a professional cartographer.
Why would they hire cartographers to make fictional maps? Why would the lack of one make the maps uncanon? They can use lore writers to make better maps for a second edition.

http://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screen...mal/711593.jpg

That doesn't sound nearly as bad as you people complain about. The Horde didn't instantly trust the Forsaken. The Tauren probably warmed Thrall to the idea.
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Last edited by Noitora; 03-11-2018 at 11:33 AM..
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  #187  
Old 03-11-2018, 02:07 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Why would they hire cartographers to make fictional maps? Why would the lack of one make the maps uncanon?
To please Ethephotic.
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  #188  
Old 03-11-2018, 03:58 PM
Veleth95 Veleth95 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
We've suspected for a while that the maps are inaccurate. The artworks were made by professional artists, so I consider them canon in absolute. I'll only consider a map completely canon when they're drawn by a professional cartographer.
A cartographer wouldn't fix the issues, they need to rethink the scale of everything before making a final map.
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  #189  
Old 03-11-2018, 04:16 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Found this on reddit:

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Start of Cataclysm and The Shattering novel retconned. Garrosh now purposefully assaulted Ashenvale rather than being framed, starting the war. Previously Cairne believed Garrosh did, but Garrosh denied it. Sylvanas also wanted to invade Gilneas, though her short story and Chris Metzen previously implied otherwise. (IMO kinda sucks they are making horde seem more like bad guys ALL the time, when previously there was more nuance to the characters)
Preview source here: https://imgur.com/a/1JDsG

Blizzard now seems to eliminating any shades of grey their characters have and is now fully embracing the horde=evil aesthetic. I don't play horde to be baby-munching evil.

Last edited by Mungo; 03-11-2018 at 04:21 PM..
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  #190  
Old 03-11-2018, 04:44 PM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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https://i.imgur.com/YyducTX.jpg

Well, the Pre Third War Map actually looks quite good in terms of scaling.
(Much better than the current ingame map, which really looks like a hack job imo.)

And in two weeks, we will also have a Post Cataclysm Map.
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  #191  
Old 03-11-2018, 05:24 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is online now

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It really doesn't change things all that much. Given the way Cataclysm was written, not at all really.

The Cataclysm-era conflict (all the way into the post-Cataclysm events of Tides of War) ended up being a sequence of constant ceasefires and renewals of hostilities so that every single individual story could rely on the "this is when the war starts" as a point of tension. So even before the Twilight's Hammer attack on those Cenarion druids, Horde incursions into Ashenvale under Garrosh were why the night elves had already suspended commerce with the Horde when The Shattering began. The reports of Horde forces skinning and dismembering captured Sentinels alive as well as the murder of the druids held credence because the Twilight cultists were able to run around doing that stuff while posing as Horde soldiers in the midst of there already being a growing Horde military presence in the forests that was increasingly antagonizing the night elves.

Garrosh hadn't started an invasion in earnest at that point, but the setup already had the orcs expanding operations in eastern Ashenvale and chafing at the night elves' response of denying trade and demanding that they get out.

The Sylvanas thing is a bit oddly phrased, not necessarily changed either. Curse of the Worgen already indicated that the Forsaken basically replaced the Scourge right away as the undead army besieging the gates of Gilneas once they managed to take over Silverpine. So Garrosh seemed to really just escalate things (albeit significantly so) when he sought to capitalize on the wall being torn open by the Cataclysm by making them throw everything they had at it and bringing in reinforcements from Kalimdor to help them do it.

Last edited by ARM3481; 03-11-2018 at 05:28 PM..
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  #192  
Old 03-11-2018, 06:01 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
Found this on reddit:



Preview source here: https://imgur.com/a/1JDsG

Blizzard now seems to eliminating any shades of grey their characters have and is now fully embracing the horde=evil aesthetic. I don't play horde to be baby-munching evil.
He fell for the Horde being victims of the dastardly meme I see.

The Forsaken were always wretched beasts and the Orcs have yet to show they can be trusted around the inhabitants of the Eastern Kingdoms.
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  #193  
Old 03-11-2018, 06:17 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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The preview we have doesn't even cover that part of The Shattering though. There's no way to say it doesn't still happen.
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  #194  
Old 03-11-2018, 06:23 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
It really doesn't change things all that much. Given the way Cataclysm was written, not at all really.

The Cataclysm-era conflict (all the way into the post-Cataclysm events of Tides of War) ended up being a sequence of constant ceasefires and renewals of hostilities so that every single individual story could rely on the "this is when the war starts" as a point of tension. So even before the Twilight's Hammer attack on those Cenarion druids, Horde incursions into Ashenvale under Garrosh were why the night elves had already suspended commerce with the Horde when The Shattering began. The reports of Horde forces skinning and dismembering captured Sentinels alive as well as the murder of the druids held credence because the Twilight cultists were able to run around doing that stuff while posing as Horde soldiers in the midst of there already being a growing Horde military presence in the forests that was increasingly antagonizing the night elves.

Garrosh hadn't started an invasion in earnest at that point, but the setup already had the orcs expanding operations in eastern Ashenvale and chafing at the night elves' response of denying trade and demanding that they get out.

The Sylvanas thing is a bit oddly phrased, not necessarily changed either. Curse of the Worgen already indicated that the Forsaken basically replaced the Scourge right away as the undead army besieging the gates of Gilneas once they managed to take over Silverpine. So Garrosh seemed to really just escalate things (albeit significantly so) when he sought to capitalize on the wall being torn open by the Cataclysm by making them throw everything they had at it and bringing in reinforcements from Kalimdor to help them do it.
Yeah, I knew that Garrosh was already getting ready to invade Ashenvale, but now it shows the horde starting the war when it was ambiguous before, but like you said it's not that bad.

But the Sylvanas one is odd because it contradicts her short story as well as several quests in Cataclysm. She goes from being ordered to invade Gilneas by Garrosh and not wanting to to cackling about invading as soon she got back from Northrend.

Make no mistake, I greatly dislike Sylvanas and Garrosh had to go but now, according to this new Chronicles, the horde has started every single war since the first in Warcraft I. Can't the alliance get the chance to start a war for once?
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  #195  
Old 03-11-2018, 06:34 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Because starting a war makes you "Evil!!!" in half a heartbeat.

Especially in the Warcraft universe.
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  #196  
Old 03-11-2018, 06:42 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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I don't get it. Doesn't Wolfheart imply that Garrosh started the invasion of Ashenvale first? Cairne challenged Garrosh because of the Twilights framing the Horde by kill Druids at a meeting. So did they change that or are people misreading things?

https://i.gyazo.com/4bd3b997c7466b84...be5b4de8c6.png

From Reignac I think. Overall I'm cool with this. I think it matches with what the Black Harvest did. Alliance probably killed Illidan, Horde beat Ragnaros and Cho'Gall, and the Alliance probably killed Deathwing.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.

Last edited by Noitora; 03-11-2018 at 07:19 PM..
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  #197  
Old 03-11-2018, 07:26 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is online now

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
Make no mistake, I greatly dislike Sylvanas and Garrosh had to go but now, according to this new Chronicles, the horde has started every single war since the first in Warcraft I. Can't the alliance get the chance to start a war for once?
Wars are basically what the Alliance exists to prevent. It was founded (and has continued) defensively by nations that wanted to hold onto what they already had.

Conversely, though he probably wasn't thinking of it in such terms, from day one Thrall basically founded the new Horde as an imperialistic nation in search of lands to conquer and settle.

Which is probably why Blizzard doesn't seem to know what to do with the Horde if it isn't starting shit.
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  #198  
Old 03-11-2018, 07:35 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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The Horde is badly written since they have to somehow be ultra hardcore metal conquerers who are also innocent noble savages and outcasts that the mean Alliance is keeping down.
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  #199  
Old 03-11-2018, 07:58 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
From Reignac I think. Overall I'm cool with this. I think it matches with what the Black Harvest did. Alliance probably killed Illidan, Horde beat Ragnaros and Cho'Gall, and the Alliance probably killed Deathwing.
Not quite. I think the Firelands were invaded by champions of both factions, led by the Cenarion Circle. Remember Malfurion and stuff. As for the Hour of Twilight, I think Dalaran probably had a huge involvement.

Also, Noitora, this has all been discussed in the discord. You should be there.
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  #200  
Old 03-11-2018, 09:48 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
I don't play horde to be baby-munching evil.
If it took you this long to realize that Horde is shit then yes you do
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