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  #1226  
Old 02-14-2017, 12:39 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
Here let me finish this thread real quick:

People who think something is murder aren't going to be convinced that it isn't murder. Stop trying to convince them.
New subject then, what's the best way to counter those people and keep abortion safe and legal?
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  #1227  
Old 02-14-2017, 01:09 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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New subject then, what's the best way to counter those people and keep abortion safe and legal?
Stop arguing with people online. Full Stop. Did you know people take classes at church to learn how to argue with pro-choicers?
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  #1228  
Old 02-14-2017, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
Here let me finish this thread real quick:

People who think something is murder aren't going to be convinced that it isn't murder. Stop trying to convince them.
However, people are fine with murder in specific situations, usually when prescribed by law. Capital punishment is by all accounts murder, but many people are fine with it.
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  #1229  
Old 02-14-2017, 01:40 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Stop arguing with people online. Full Stop. Did you know people take classes at church to learn how to argue with pro-choicers?
How do you handle the people in real life? Is it easier to make your case in a face-to-face discussion?
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  #1230  
Old 02-14-2017, 01:44 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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However, people are fine with murder in specific situations, usually when prescribed by law. Capital punishment is by all accounts murder, but many people are fine with it.
Isn't murder specifically defined as unlawful killing?
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  #1231  
Old 02-14-2017, 01:57 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Stop arguing with people online. Full Stop. Did you know people take classes at church to learn how to argue with pro-choicers?
I was not, but I'm not surprised
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  #1232  
Old 02-14-2017, 02:48 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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I have seen churches offer classes for learning English as a second language. Nutjobs, clearly.
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  #1233  
Old 02-14-2017, 03:00 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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If people want to prevent abortions, they should work on getting religious "morality" out of sex ed and then throw a ton of money at organizations like Planned Parenthood. Oddly enough, they tend to do the exact opposite.
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  #1234  
Old 02-14-2017, 03:20 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Isn't murder specifically defined as unlawful killing?
Legally, yes. Morally, it's more about amoral killing versus necessary or honorable killing, though this varies greatly even in this day and age, as one can see in relation to this very topic.
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  #1235  
Old 02-14-2017, 03:26 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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If people want to prevent abortions, they should work on getting religious "morality" out of sex ed and then throw a ton of money at organizations like Planned Parenthood. Oddly enough, they tend to do the exact opposite.
You posit that in order to reduce/eliminate abortions, we should give even more money to the largest abortion provider in the nation. That sounds backwards. I mean, look:

https://top5ofanything.com/list/047a...Abortion-Rates

The highest abortion rates are in the northeast states. Are you saying that these are the states where religious morality has smothered sex education to the point that contraception isn't as available as it is in, say, the less religion-obsessed southern and midwest states?

If not, then why hasn't the already generous funding of Planned Parenthood resulted in the elimination of abortion in these sections of the country?
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  #1236  
Old 02-14-2017, 03:38 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
You posit that in order to reduce/eliminate abortions, we should give even more money to the largest abortion provider in the nation. That sounds backwards. I mean, look:

https://top5ofanything.com/list/047a...Abortion-Rates

The highest abortion rates are in the northeast states. Are you saying that these are the states where religious morality has smothered sex education to the point that contraception isn't as available as it is in, say, the less religion-obsessed southern and midwest states?

If not, then why hasn't the already generous funding of Planned Parenthood resulted in the elimination of abortion in these sections of the country?
You might want to throw in comparisons for attempted home abortions and dead children or teens due to related factors

planned parenthood doesn't just provide abortions they also provide sex education and a lot of other services
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  #1237  
Old 02-14-2017, 04:03 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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How do you handle the people in real life? Is it easier to make your case in a face-to-face discussion?
Would it surprise you to learn it literally never comes up? I generally don't go around arguing with people about abortion.
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  #1238  
Old 02-14-2017, 04:04 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
You might want to throw in comparisons for attempted home abortions and dead children or teens due to related factors
Find me the comparison numbers. I bet it's still going to show higher abortions in places where they are most easily available.

Because more availability = more practiced. That's how things work.

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planned parenthood doesn't just provide abortions they also provide sex education and a lot of other services
Maybe they should provide those services without providing abortions. Why would that be so terrible?

EDIT:
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Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
Would it surprise you to learn it literally never comes up? I generally don't go around arguing with people about abortion.
Shouldn't you practice? You're going to get blindsided someday, if you don't exercise the muscles.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 02-14-2017 at 04:06 PM..
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  #1239  
Old 02-14-2017, 04:27 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Shouldn't you practice? You're going to get blindsided someday, if you don't exercise the muscles.
What like I'm gonna get hit by a rhetorical drone strike at the grocery store?
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  #1240  
Old 02-14-2017, 04:32 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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What like I'm gonna get hit by a rhetorical drone strike at the grocery store?
Maybe if you lead with the "an acorn is not a tree" argument...

We sharpen each other. I want you pro-choicers to improve your arguments as I improve mine. I don't want a gag bill. Silence never helps, in these historic controversies.
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  #1241  
Old 02-14-2017, 09:25 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Find me the comparison numbers. I bet it's still going to show higher abortions in places where they are most easily available.

Because more availability = more practiced. That's how things work.



Maybe they should provide those services without providing abortions. Why would that be so terrible?
1. Nah, I don't actually doubt that there's more in those areas, I just think you should consider those things too.


2. Because then women who are carrying ill fetuses that won't survive anyway will be forced to carry them to term and possibly die as well, and women who don't want children or aren't ready for them will be forced to bring children into homes that are plainly unsuited to care for them, and even if they're put up for adoption (which is an alternative to raising a child, not an alternative to birth) the foster system is in terrible shape.
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  #1242  
Old 02-14-2017, 09:25 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Planned Parenthood isn't the only organization that can provide sex education and 'other services.' We can serve people better by just giving them a check and telling them they can use it at any healthcare facility that doesn't provide any abortions. There are hardly any Planned Parenthoods in many states and coercing money from people and sending it to a specific organization is very anti-choice. It has just become this precious liberal thing that they have to defend to make team liberal win because if the goal was to offer poor women healthcare there are so many better ways to do it. The eugenics angle of the founder should be taken seriously considering the gender imbalance caused by sex selective abortions in patriarchal societies or how many people abort special needs fetuses. If there was a way to detect homosexuality in the womb I wonder how okay with it some of these pro-choicers would be if people aborted their homosexual babies?

I just don't know how you couldn't feel sentimental for the fetus. There are apps and websites that detail out the various stage of development. We have ultra sounds in order to see the fetus. Babies can hear their mother's voice and even move. Women get round bellies when they are pregnant. Comparing it to a parasite is so callous. Miscarriages are devastating to families. If you kill a pregnant women's fetus you get charged with murder. Some women just so unconsciousness. Is the sentiment around the fetus really this terrible thing? How do you twist something that is just maternal and empathetic with something so hateful with labels like "pro-birth."
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  #1243  
Old 02-14-2017, 10:43 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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2. Because then women who are carrying ill fetuses that won't survive anyway will be forced to carry them to term and possibly die as well,
That's a pretty small percentage of the abortions PP throws together. I can't see them allowing themselves to be limited on choice so drastically.

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and women who don't want children or aren't ready for them will be forced to bring children into homes that are plainly unsuited to care for them, and even if they're put up for adoption (which is an alternative to raising a child, not an alternative to birth) the foster system is in terrible shape.
These are strong arguments for infanticide, for exactly the same reasons. But you don't support infanticide, so they haven't convinced you. If they haven't even convinced you, then I feel like I can dismiss them.
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  #1244  
Old 02-15-2017, 12:22 AM
Rufin Rufin is offline

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Planned Parenthood isn't the only organization that can provide sex education and 'other services.' We can serve people better by just giving them a check and telling them they can use it at any healthcare facility that doesn't provide any abortions. There are hardly any Planned Parenthoods in many states and coercing money from people and sending it to a specific organization is very anti-choice. It has just become this precious liberal thing that they have to defend to make team liberal win because if the goal was to offer poor women healthcare there are so many better ways to do it. The eugenics angle of the founder should be taken seriously considering the gender imbalance caused by sex selective abortions in patriarchal societies or how many people abort special needs fetuses. If there was a way to detect homosexuality in the womb I wonder how okay with it some of these pro-choicers would be if people aborted their homosexual babies?

I just don't know how you couldn't feel sentimental for the fetus. There are apps and websites that detail out the various stage of development. We have ultra sounds in order to see the fetus. Babies can hear their mother's voice and even move. Women get round bellies when they are pregnant. Comparing it to a parasite is so callous. Miscarriages are devastating to families. If you kill a pregnant women's fetus you get charged with murder. Some women just so unconsciousness. Is the sentiment around the fetus really this terrible thing? How do you twist something that is just maternal and empathetic with something so hateful with labels like "pro-birth."
Every time you make a post I consider dropping out of college because I don't want a degree from any place you've ever visited, much less attended. How can you have so many consistently terrible thoughts and ideas at such a constant rate?
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  #1245  
Old 02-15-2017, 10:23 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Every time you make a post I consider dropping out of college because I don't want a degree from any place you've ever visited, much less attended. How can you have so many consistently terrible thoughts and ideas at such a constant rate?
If you need a convenient excuse to drop out of college then you have my permission to use it. Just blame me for why you can't do it.
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  #1246  
Old 02-15-2017, 11:16 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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(Don't major in liberal arts unless you plan to teach. Or do school-like research forever while connected to a museum or something. Which is fine, if that's what you want.)
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  #1247  
Old 02-15-2017, 11:37 AM
Rufin Rufin is offline

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(Don't major in liberal arts unless you plan to teach. Or do school-like research forever while connected to a museum or something. Which is fine, if that's what you want.)
I take it you made that mistake.
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  #1248  
Old 02-15-2017, 01:47 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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I take it you made that mistake.
Only a mistake if you don't want it.
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  #1249  
Old 02-15-2017, 08:01 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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"The world’s largest porn site has launched a centre dedicated to educating people about sexuality and sexual health – because of poor standards of sex and relationship education (SRE)."
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/02/07...3c354c456e1db2
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  #1250  
Old 02-15-2017, 08:19 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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"The world’s largest porn site has launched a centre dedicated to educating people about sexuality and sexual health – because of poor standards of sex and relationship education (SRE)."
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/02/07...3c354c456e1db2
Where are these schools that don't tell people about contraceptives?

Does comprehensive sex ed mean schools also talk about butt sex and abortions or something?
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