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  #1  
Old 02-01-2016, 11:12 PM
Bolvar Bolvar is offline

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Orc Icon (War3) The 2016 Presidential Election Thread

The Iowa Caucus is in the books.

Well, mostly. Bernie and Hillary are still undecided. But nobody cares. Voter apathy towards the DNC is at an all-time high (#ThanksObama) so it's really the Republican nominee that matters.

Cruz takes a win. Rubio shows better than expected. Trump is slapped with reality.

NH will be interesting. Rubio could win, or Cruz gets a bump and takes it.

I'm waiting for Hillary to get indicted, prompting half a dozen new Democrats to throw their hats in the ring.

Heck, Trump himself may look into switching parties at this point.

Last edited by Shaman; 02-14-2016 at 12:57 PM..
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Old 02-02-2016, 01:07 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Yay it's time to elect our global overlord again!

He is the leader no one wants but one we probably deserve as a wicked form of divine punishment for our many human failures


Anyway go Bernie, but Hillary pls no, most republicans are less bad but probably bad news for my region.
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Old 02-02-2016, 02:13 AM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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You want Rubio, internet foreigner, if you don't want to see Hilary.
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Old 02-02-2016, 02:33 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Throwing my fancy hat in for Sanders. It'd be good to be able to read about American foreign policy without facepalming for once.

Edit: It'd be neat with a poll, just to see where SoL's users sympathies lie.
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Old 02-02-2016, 02:35 AM
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Isn't Ted Cruz something like a US Marine Le Pen but as a male while Trump was basically Petain ? From what we get, none of the Republicans candidates seem even a little non-dangerous for the rest of the world...
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Old 02-02-2016, 03:50 AM
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I think Bernie would get destroyed in a general election. He wouldn't have swing state appeal and the Republicans would attack him over going on a honey moon to the Soviet Union hard. Congress would stop him from doing too much damage.
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Old 02-02-2016, 04:55 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
Edit: It'd be neat with a poll, just to see where SoL's users sympathies lie.
Seconded.


Also I must admit I am weary of heeding Bolvar's prediction that only the Republican candidates matter, I mean he said that the last time too and look who got elected
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Old 02-02-2016, 05:04 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
I think Bernie would get destroyed in a general election. He wouldn't have swing state appeal and the Republicans would attack him over going on a honey moon to the Soviet Union hard. Congress would stop him from doing too much damage.
This is probably what I would think if I had an opinion.

I have no stomach for politics, and part of me would like to believe Bernie Sanders is enough of an antiparticle to make actual changes to the government, but I can't imagine he'd be allowed to get very far.
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Old 02-02-2016, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
I think Bernie would get destroyed in a general election. He wouldn't have swing state appeal and the Republicans would attack him over going on a honey moon to the Soviet Union hard. Congress would stop him from doing too much damage.
As much as I'd like Bernie to win, the only way I can see that happening is if Trump takes the Republican ballot, and even then it's the balance between the US's hatred of socialism or that Trump is a complete and utter disingenuous hateful fucknugget.
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Old 02-02-2016, 05:26 AM
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As much as I would loathe to see Cruz win the presidential election, I would be curious to see how that would impact GOP internal politics. GOP Congressmen, for the most part, absolutely hate Cruz. But if he gets elected, would the party shift his way or would it lock in its heels and further resist Cruz? And would Cruz as president help the Democrats regain additional seats in Congress?
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Old 02-02-2016, 05:26 AM
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As much as I'd like Bernie to win, the only way I can see that happening is if Trump takes the Republican ballot, and even then it's the balance between the US's hatred of socialism or that Trump is a complete and utter disingenuous hateful fucknugget.
Why college kid!
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Old 02-02-2016, 05:46 AM
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Trump 2016boys
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Old 02-02-2016, 06:14 AM
Torch Torch is offline

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Why college kid!
Because of my shallow Liberal affections, that's why.

Also because it's amusing when Americans scream "SOCIALISM" at things that are very, very mildly socialistic.
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Old 02-02-2016, 06:56 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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I see either Sanders or Trump winning.
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Old 02-02-2016, 08:51 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Because of my shallow Liberal affections, that's why.

Also because it's amusing when Americans scream "SOCIALISM" at things that are very, very mildly socialistic.
Americans like their low cost of living, GDP growth, and high wages.
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Old 02-02-2016, 08:55 AM
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Americans like their low cost of living, GDP growth, and high wages.
GDP growth doesn't help anyone if wages don't increase for the lower and middle classes PJ.
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:04 AM
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GDP growth doesn't help anyone if wages don't increase for the lower and middle classes PJ.
Where do you think that line is drawn? Most people with any sort of skill set make more in the United States, including teachers.
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:08 AM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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GDP growth doesn't help anyone if wages don't increase for the lower and middle classes PJ.
Increasing wages destroys small businesses. It also drives up the cost of goods. In other words: it doesn't do shit for lower and middle class people.
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:21 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Originally Posted by Ganishka View Post
Increasing wages destroys small businesses. It also drives up the cost of goods. In other words: it doesn't do shit for lower and middle class people.
Having a large, undocumented population of low skilled workers does not help wages either. Youth unemployment and general underemployment are because of companies abusing the visa system and because of the large swath of illegals that drive the cost of labor down. Lastly, having many of your jobs exported to poor countries also hurts your people, either in the service industry (call centers) or manufacturing.
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:25 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Increasing wages destroys small businesses. It also drives up the cost of goods. In other words: it doesn't do shit for lower and middle class people.
Except history says it doesn't.

http://business.time.com/2014/02/28/...-minimum-wage/


http://www.dol.gov/featured/minimum-wage/mythbuster


http://benjaminstudebaker.com/2015/0...-to-inflation/

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Yet Another Attempt to Make the World a Better Place by Writing Things
Misconceptions: Raising the Minimum Wage Does Not Automatically Lead to Inflation
by Benjamin Studebaker

In recent weeks, I have had the very same conversation with a number of my friends. Each time I?m told that they were participating in a discussion about the minimum wage when someone claimed that there was no point in raising wages because firms would just raise their prices to cover the increase. This is a very intuitive, appealing argument, but it?s deeply misleading and fallacious. Let me explain why.


If minimum wage hikes automatically resulted in price increases, we would expect to see the inflation rate rise whenever the minimum wage rises. This does not happen. Here?s the US federal minimum wage since 1938:



The grey line shows the raw minimum wage. The blue line shows the real value of that wage when you take inflation into account. Here?s the inflation rate over the same period:



There is no clear relationship. The minimum wage more than doubled in inflation-adjusted value between 1948 and 1968, but inflation during most of this period was stable. From 1968 to 1988, the inflation-adjusted value of the minimum wage actually fell by around one third, but inflation still spiked throughout the 70?s. In 2008, the minimum wage saw its largest increase in decades in both real and nominal terms, but inflation not only failed to rise, it cratered.

Indeed, the very fact that you can raise the inflation-adjusted minimum wage at all shows that this argument is completely false. If minimum wage hikes were entirely offset with price increases, it would not be possible to raise the inflation adjusted minimum wage from $4.07 to $10.56, but this is precisely what happened between 1938 and 1968. Instead, the blue line would simply be flat, or at the very least it would rapidly re-converge to some flat trend line. The graph looks nothing like this, which suggests that this argument is fundamentally broken in a basic way.

What?s wrong with it? It relies on the assumption that firms pay their workers the maximum amount they can possibly pay while staying in business, such that any increase in wages necessitates raising prices. This could not be further from the truth?firms do not try to maximize wages, they try to maximize profits. To maximize profits, firms need to minimize their labor costs, not maximize them. So firms try to pay their workers as little as they can get away with. Historically, the minimum a worker could be paid was traditionally the subsistence wage?the amount of money the worker needed to buy food and pay rent, i.e. to subsist. Over the last couple centuries, wages have risen above the subsistence level for three core reasons:

Scarce Skills?many firms now need skilled workers. There are often fewer skilled workers than firms need, and this means that firms must compete for skilled workers by offering them higher wages. So skilled workers have more bargaining power than unskilled workers (provided that the specific skills the worker has are in high demand).
Trade Unionism?governments have legalized unions and created union rights. Collectively workers have more bargaining power than they do individually, and this allows them to negotiate higher wages.
Minimum Wages?governments have set floors on wages above the subsistence level to increase the purchasing power and standard of living of workers.
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:18 AM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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It's obvious that you've never owned or watched the business of a small or startup business, Mutters.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...all-businesses

Note that that is from the Guardian, not exactly a "conservative friendly" newspaper, and half of the people interviewed said that their businesses would go under from a mandatory $15 minimum wage, not to mention the adding of service charges, increasing product costs, and and mandatory tipping.

>Written by the Department of Labor.
>Under Obama.



You could link an article from the old Soviet "Pravda", and it would be about as accurate.

I could find as many articles giving proof to my point, as well. You know, like this:

http://www.businessinsider.com/raisi...-people-2015-4
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:24 AM
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I will vote for Hillary.
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:25 AM
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Just like small businesses historically went und- Oh wait no they didn't.
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:26 AM
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What role will Bill play if Hillary wins?
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:26 AM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Small businesses sometimes have very tight budgets, and I can see an increased minimum wage being a very real risk for those starting out. A higher minimum wage can discourage entrepreneurs from starting firms.

One could argue that a person unable to provide above the minimum wage has no business starting a company, but small companies provide a lot of employment.

That said, I suspect we'll eventually see some kind of basic guaranteed income in the future (probably not for a few decades, though), just because there won't be enough jobs to go around. Not saying this is necessarily a good thing or a bad thing; just that it may well be a thing.
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