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  #601  
Old 10-23-2011, 09:43 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
They really don't 'need' anything.



Good for you...?



Um, okay. And? They've got the Lich King's most powerful servants and a super-plague on their side. They ARE potentially more powerful than a bunch of second war veterans (who quite frankly would be pretty old at this point) and what's left of Stromgarde.
There are four Val'kyr left. I wonder if Sylvanas will risk losing more of them to take Stromgarde...

And the Super-plague that Worgen run through? It doesn't seem as strong as it used to be, considering the Worgen completely ignore it in the last battle at silverpine.

Was it the old super-plague that was used at southshore, or the new water-plague that was used in Silverpine?
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  #602  
Old 10-23-2011, 09:44 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Originally Posted by Crazyterran View Post
There are four Val'kyr left. I wonder if Sylvanas will risk losing more of them to take Stromgarde...
She has minor val'kyr. And yeah, she'll keep using the Val'kyr in all her battles. Why wouldn't she?

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And the Super-plague that Worgen run through? It doesn't seem as strong as it used to be, considering the Worgen completely ignore it in the last battle at silverpine.
That was a pretty minute aesthetic detail in a single zone. It did a pretty good job forcing the entire Gilnean population out of Gilneas city.
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  #603  
Old 10-23-2011, 09:50 PM
Nessy Nessy is offline

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This thread is fucking hilarious, rofl.
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  #604  
Old 10-23-2011, 09:50 PM
Vil'rexin Vil'rexin is offline

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As for Garrosh, based on what Metzen said at the lore panel last Blizzcon, I'm pretty sure Garrosh is being set up for a tragic hero type fall, but not for a long time, perhaps post WoW even.
Tragic hero type fall and Garrosh hmm...

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Aristotle contests that the tragic hero has to be a man “who is not eminently good and just, yet whose misfortune is brought about not by vice or depravity, but by some error or frailty.” He is not making the hero entirely good in which he can do no wrong but rather has the hero committing an injury or a great wrong leading to his misfortune.
Great wrong = Theramore and perhaps Thrall killing Garrosh in a Mak'gora = misfortune?
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  #605  
Old 10-23-2011, 09:52 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Kasarax View Post
Tragic hero type fall and Garrosh hmm...



Great wrong = Theramore and perhaps Thrall killing Garrosh in a Mak'gora = misfortune?
Metzen didn't mention Theramore to me, but I wouldn't be surprised if its involved with that he did say.
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  #606  
Old 10-23-2011, 09:53 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
She has minor val'kyr. And yeah, she'll keep using the Val'kyr in all her battles. Why wouldn't she?



That was a pretty minute aesthetic detail in a single zone. It did a pretty good job forcing the entire Gilnean population out of Gilneas city.

It's still deadly, it's just not as powerful as it used to be. If you can live by running through it, and rip up some catapults, it's not what it used to be, you dig?

And, if she has minor val'kyr, whats the point of the major val'kyr?

We don't know if they are canon, since they just made a significant chunk of Silverpine non-canon.

I mean, they say she only has 4 Val'kyr left. I assume that means 4. As in, Four. Not, Four + unlimited lesser Val'kyr.

You know what I mean?

Everyone but you is totally cool with the Alliance take Stromgarde and Arathi. Why you no like Alliance?
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  #607  
Old 10-23-2011, 09:54 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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Wow, ok I'm debating whether or not to read through all the pages, but in the meantime, wow...losing Theramore. Well, guess it was going to happen at some point.

And I'm still mulling over that comment about Jaina's homeland being "covered in slag" in Varian's mini story.
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  #608  
Old 10-23-2011, 09:56 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Originally Posted by Arakiba View Post
Wow, ok I'm debating whether or not to read through all the pages, but in the meantime, wow...losing Theramore. Well, guess it was going to happen at some point.

And I'm still mulling over that comment about Jaina's homeland being "covered in slag" in Varian's mini story.
Kul'tiras is probably not doing so well once it got moved out to see. I imagine a volcano erupted, and shits gone to hell. Which is why we don't see a huge fleet pissing all over the Horde's navy parade.

Probably to busy doing S&R, using the sailors to rebuild, and defending Kul'tiras while all this shit is going down.
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  #609  
Old 10-23-2011, 09:57 PM
Nessy Nessy is offline

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Originally Posted by Arakiba View Post
And I'm still mulling over that comment about Jaina's homeland being "covered in slag" in Varian's mini story.
The writer probably got the news that the Horde would be attacking Theramore but got the timeline wrong. And then Blizzard didn't notice it.

But wait, that doesn't make sense... Jaina is still all rooting for peace with the Horde in the Varian story.... which doesnt make sense considering what's going down. Fuck. Maybe it's just Kul Tiras or something.
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  #610  
Old 10-23-2011, 09:58 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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The writer probably got the news that the Horde would be attacking Theramore but got the timeline wrong. And then Blizzard didn't notice it.

But wait, that doesn't make sense... Jaina is still all rooting for peace with the Horde in the Varian story.... which doesnt make sense considering what's going down. Fuck. Maybe it's just Kul Tiras or something.
That's why I'm mulling it over, heh. That little bit of dialogue stood out to me when the story was released, and then we learn about this coming up. Timeline wise it is really bizarre yet...

*shrug*
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  #611  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:08 PM
Reyson Reyson is offline

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Originally Posted by Crazyterran View Post
It's still deadly, it's just not as powerful as it used to be. If you can live by running through it, and rip up some catapults, it's not what it used to be, you dig?

And, if she has minor val'kyr, whats the point of the major val'kyr?

We don't know if they are canon, since they just made a significant chunk of Silverpine non-canon.

I mean, they say she only has 4 Val'kyr left. I assume that means 4. As in, Four. Not, Four + unlimited lesser Val'kyr.

You know what I mean?

Everyone but you is totally cool with the Alliance take Stromgarde and Arathi. Why you no like Alliance?
Those 4 are the ones that Sylvanas made a pact with, they're the strongest of the lot and the ones who can ressurect her. They are however, not the only Val'kyr among the Forsaken, just look at WPL where there are dozens of them flying around and none of these are considered to be part of the ones mentioned in the shortstory.
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  #612  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:11 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Crazy is here now?

Anyway, Kayalin or whatever is thinking Blizzards using her idea of setting up the Night Elves to get pissed and decimate Org and other Horde forces in the area while the Orcs and Horde take out Theramore, thus reshifting the leveling paths again.
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  #613  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:12 PM
Gadinhad Gadinhad is offline

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Before I go to bed, I'd just like to say one final thing.

I think people don't realize how crushing a blow this is to roleplayers. Particularly people with Theramore-themed stuff. Their entire Kingdom is basically now coming down and crumbling. I'd be pissed beyond belief if I rp'd.

Come on... we are basically losing a kingdom. It's not right.

Not right at all.
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  #614  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Metzen didn't mention Theramore to me, but I wouldn't be surprised if its involved with that he did say.
The main question, however, is whether or not his fall will be considered either 1) tragic, or 2) heroic. And right now, based on Garrosh's terrible reception on most sides, I'd say that Blizzard is tragically failing.
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  #615  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:15 PM
TerrorhoofMayo TerrorhoofMayo is offline

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Yeah, I liked Theramore too. There will probably be a place fore Theramore refugees too.
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  #616  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:15 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
Crazy is here now?

Anyway, Kayalin or whatever is thinking Blizzards using her idea of setting up the Night Elves to get pissed and decimate Org and other Horde forces in the area while the Orcs and Horde take out Theramore, thus reshifting the leveling paths again.
Now, between you and me, do you think Orgrimmar will be decimated?

Or do you think they'll just leave the Night Elven areas alone, and just update Theramore, and possibly Strom?

/shrug.
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  #617  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:19 PM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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Now, between you and me, do you think Orgrimmar will be decimated?
You are talking to Ferlion, remember? The guy who essentially thinks night elves are the most awesome sauce ever and they should be able to beat anything simply by the virtue of being night elves.
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  #618  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:19 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Originally Posted by Crazyterran View Post
It's still deadly, it's just not as powerful as it used to be. If you can live by running through it, and rip up some catapults, it's not what it used to be, you dig?
...and what... constituted this change...?

This is an incredibly weak argument.

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And, if she has minor val'kyr, whats the point of the major val'kyr?
They're bigger and more powerful?

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Everyone but you is totally cool with the Alliance take Stromgarde and Arathi. Why you no like Alliance?
This is possibly the most desperate argument in a debate one can use. I'm all for some interesting conflict going on in Arathi. Danath's return, a battle between Stromgarde's military forces and the Forsaken, it could be really cool and interesting. With both sides winding up looking cool. (There isn't any point in the game where we play as the Forsaken INVADING territory. And I think that'd be really awesome.)

Having the Forsaken board up Hillsbrad and leave Arathi to Stromgarde? That'd be lame. It'd be pandering to a bunch of whiny Alliance fans who want placation, and it just wouldn't be all that enthralling a story. I like conflict, I like tragedy, I don't like 'Alliance should get Stromgarde because things have been rough and we need it!'. And as I mentioned (though I don't think anyone saw it) I think it'd be cool for Danath to reclaim Stromgarde. But Arathi? I'm not for that at all.

And I like the Alliance fine. Jaina (well WC3 Jaina) and Tyrande are in my top 5 favourite WarCraft characters. (The other three are Kel'thuzad, Ner'zhul and probably Terenas or Grom in case you're wondering.)
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  #619  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:23 PM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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Do not forget the Jaina book could tie into this.
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  #620  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:23 PM
Guntank Guntank is offline

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Like...man. o_o

I really have to wonder if Theramore's destruction will turn out to be the catalyst or the result of Thrall's return as Warchief. Either way, after a blow like that, it's very unlikely Jaina will ever trust the Horde being capable of peace again, Thrall or Garrosh; Coinciding with Metzen's comments on Varian going to be made 'totally awesome' in MoP and with the Alliance finally worshipping him as the true King of the Alliance...it seems Jaina's finally being set up as the next Queen of Stormwind beside him.

Aaargh.
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  #621  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:24 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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I don't think anyone is suggesting for the Forsaken to just let the Allianc to just win in Arathing but for the Alliance to push them out and force a kind of Gilneas situation.
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  #622  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:24 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyterran View Post
And, if she has minor val'kyr, whats the point of the major val'kyr?
I might be mis-remembering, but I think the Sylvannas short story said that if all 9 of the major val'kyr die she will too.
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  #623  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:24 PM
Vil'rexin Vil'rexin is offline

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You are talking to Ferlion, remember? The guy who essentially thinks night elves are the most awesome sauce ever and they should be able to beat anything simply by the virtue of being night elves.
Genesis, never stop posting. Though I do think you might be getting him confused with other pro-night elf posters from the Story forums who insist that they shouldn't lose in an area because, "it's our forests lolz". Does that mean Orcs shouldn't lose in canyons or that Tauren shouldn't lose in the open plains?
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  #624  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:25 PM
Iliya Iliya is offline

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Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
This is possibly the most desperate argument in a debate one can use. I'm all for some interesting conflict going on in Arathi. Danath's return, a battle between Stromgarde's military forces and the Forsaken, it could be really cool and interesting. With both sides winding up looking cool. (There isn't any point in the game where we play as the Forsaken INVADING territory. And I think that'd be really awesome.)

Having the Forsaken board up Hillsbrad and leave Arathi to Stromgarde? That'd be lame. It'd be pandering to a bunch of whiny Alliance fans who want placation, and it just wouldn't be all that enthralling a story. I like conflict, I like tragedy, I don't like 'Alliance should get Stromgarde because things have been rough and we need it!'. And as I mentioned (though I don't think anyone saw it) I think it'd be cool for Danath to reclaim Stromgarde. But Arathi? I'm not for that at all.

And I like the Alliance fine. Jaina (well WC3 Jaina) and Tyrande are in my top 5 favourite WarCraft characters. (The other three are Kel'thuzad, Ner'zhul and probably Terenas or Grom in case you're wondering.)
The major problem with your lame idea to give part of Arathi to the Forsaken is that it cuts off the Wildhammers in Aerie Peak and the other neutrals north of them. Seriously, what would any Argents with half a brain think about the idea that the Forsaken more or less have free reign to do with anything north of the Thandol Span as they please? Bad things, that's what.
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  #625  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:25 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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I don't think anyone is suggesting for the Forsaken to just let the Allianc to just win in Arathing but for the Alliance to push them out and force a kind of Gilneas situation.
I just don't see the appeal in that. It'd basically mean the Forsaken were stuck in a stalemate on two fronts... where the you know... threat?

Quote:
it seems Jaina's finally being set up as the next Queen of Stormwind.
How do you figure?
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