Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > WarCraft Lore Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 05-16-2016, 06:22 PM
Yorenec Yorenec is offline

Arch-Druid
Yorenec's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,228
BattleTag: Stncold#1786

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AckAck View Post
If you are saying he spends several years in Draenor after going there at year 30 MU Azeroth, then he'd have to technically travel back in time in MU too, in order to spend several years on Draenor and still come back in year 31.

Are you saying, he technically goes back in time from his perspective too? God this is confusing haha
It's unknown whether he goes back in year 30 or year 31 as it's never been clarified what year War Crimes takes place in.

But yes. He goes back to AU Draenor either in year 30 or 31 to year -4 on Draenor, spends two years there building up the Iron Horde/conquering the draenei or whatever, then invades Azeroth when it's year 31 in the MU and year -2 in the AU.

Two years passed for him on Draenor and probably only a few months passed on Azeroth before he invaded.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05-16-2016, 06:38 PM
AckAck AckAck is offline

Keeper of the Grove
AckAck's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 612

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorenec View Post
It's unknown whether he goes back in year 30 or year 31 as it's never been clarified what year War Crimes takes place in.

But yes. He goes back to AU Draenor either in year 30 or 31 to year -4 on Draenor, spends two years there building up the Iron Horde/conquering the draenei or whatever, then invades Azeroth when it's year 31 in the MU and year -2 in the AU.

Two years passed for him on Draenor and probably only a few months passed on Azeroth before he invaded.
That is so unnecessary and complex haha
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05-16-2016, 07:12 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

Elune
Noitora's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 34,691
BattleTag: Chillman#1339

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AckAck View Post
That is so unnecessary and complex haha
It makes perfect sense for normal people.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobebyarlant View Post
All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05-16-2016, 07:18 PM
AckAck AckAck is offline

Keeper of the Grove
AckAck's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 612

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
It makes perfect sense for normal people.
Well aren't you special
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 05-16-2016, 07:24 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

Eternal
MisterCrow's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,421

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AckAck View Post
That is so unnecessary and complex haha
See, and this is why Blizzard tried to handwave as much of the groundwork for this expansion as possible, because if people can't fathom linear temporal mechanics, then anything like causality is just going to be incomprehensible.

I appreciate what they wanted to do with WoD but it was undercooked.
__________________
Lore Observation, Systems Design, and other science dropped at Power Word: Remix


Expect nothing and anything will surprise you.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 05-16-2016, 08:15 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

Eternal
Ethenil's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,666

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterCrow View Post
See, and this is why Blizzard tried to handwave as much of the groundwork for this expansion as possible, because if people can't fathom linear temporal mechanics, then anything like causality is just going to be incomprehensible.

I appreciate what they wanted to do with WoD but it was undercooked.
Yeah :/ It's really not difficult and could have been great.

I wish they could have done this better without worrying about that, and then, I don't know, post a short story explaining what's happening.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 05-17-2016, 01:01 AM
AckAck AckAck is offline

Keeper of the Grove
AckAck's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 612

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterCrow View Post
See, and this is why Blizzard tried to handwave as much of the groundwork for this expansion as possible, because if people can't fathom linear temporal mechanics, then anything like causality is just going to be incomprehensible.

I appreciate what they wanted to do with WoD but it was undercooked.
It's easy enough to understand, it's just stupid they would go with that instead of just saying the timeline is the same. Garrosh leaves for 2 years, 2 years passes on Azeroth. Garrosh comes back. Easy. Garrosh leaves for 2 years to him, but then opens a portal to 1 year after he left. Ok.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 05-17-2016, 02:48 AM
Whitrix Whitrix is offline

Warden
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 731

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AckAck View Post
It's easy enough to understand, it's just stupid they would go with that instead of just saying the timeline is the same. Garrosh leaves for 2 years, 2 years passes on Azeroth. Garrosh comes back. Easy. Garrosh leaves for 2 years to him, but then opens a portal to 1 year after he left. Ok.
According to time travel and 'parallel universe travel' stories the one from WoD is one of the simplest I've seen.
I sincerely started to think you were trolling when 3-4 different users explained Garrosh' voyage and you still didn't understand it.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 05-17-2016, 05:36 AM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

Elune
Cemotucu's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: St. M. of Tucumán, Argentina
Posts: 6,663
BattleTag: CEMOTucu#2138

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AckAck View Post
It's easy enough to understand, it's just stupid they would go with that instead of just saying the timeline is the same. Garrosh leaves for 2 years, 2 years passes on Azeroth. Garrosh comes back. Easy. Garrosh leaves for 2 years to him, but then opens a portal to 1 year after he left. Ok.
Actually, it makes sense for Garrosh to return to a timepoint in MU in which the Alliance and the Horde haven't yet recovered from the losses from MoP. While we the players had months to recover, he had two years to amase a fresh army.
__________________
FOR NYORLOTH, ALWAYS AND FOREVER!

Loremaster on
MundoWarcraft

(Spanish Warcraft Lore Community and Roleplay)
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 05-17-2016, 06:02 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

Elune
Noitora's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 34,691
BattleTag: Chillman#1339

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AckAck View Post
Well aren't you special
No, I'm normal.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobebyarlant View Post
All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 07-04-2016, 11:32 AM
Mordecay Mordecay is offline

Keeper of the Grove
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 685

Default

So here's what I found when I compared the two UVGs. I went into great details, so it's a bit long. Will use (1) for the first UVG and (2) for the newest UVG.

- Events and lore covered up to WoD. Even start of the Legion is there and it's already in the past tense!

- The page dedicated to the titans is still written as if they are alive and around. However, this page and a page prior to this one, had a sentence changed – (1) the titans shaped Azeroth and are absent, + that they had significant role in shaping the worlds. This is not in the second book. All references of titans giving the Aspects powers, removed. These probably hint at the Chronicle where the Keepers were the direct shapers of the world and imbued the aspects.

-No Void Lords in Sargeras's page, still demons big bad. He lost one title, Fallen Titan (no idea why).
(1) While Sargeras once hunted demons in the Twisting Nether, he now resides there, controlling his demon armies sending them forth to conquer.
(2) Although Sargeras once hunted demons in the Twisting Nether, he eventually commanded demon armies there, sending them forth from the Nether to conquer.
(does it mean the same?) In the first one, he was described as creator and leader of the Legion, he is now just creator.

-(1)presented the name kaldorei Empire / Kaldorei Empire. (2) kaldorei empire with the only unchanged name Kaldorei Empire in Azshara's title as the Queen of the Kaldorei Empire.

-Illidan:
(1) Illidan, enraged by Tyrande's choice of Malfurion over him, betrayed Malfurion's plan to destroy the Well of Eternity to Queen Azshara. She ordered her Highborne sorcerers to bring Sargeras himself into Azeroth... Illidan stole vials of water from the Well, claiming its magic as his own...
(2) Illidan deserted the night elf army after realizing that Tyrande had given her heart not to him, but to his twin. He joined the Legion's forces for a time and studied their spellcasting before reuniting with Malfurion and Tyrande.
+ No mention of Well's magic for his own.
(1)He consumed the Skull of Guldan.
(2)He consumed the fel magic of the skull.
One sentence was changed and (2) added that Illidan captured Maiev (the Illidan book ref, maybe? Im not sure coz the three books (chronicle, Illidan and UVG) came out with a month away)
His tattoo (1) of Sargeras's magic is now just (2) powerful magic.
(1)Illidan’s destructive addiction to power turned Tyrande away... is gone.
Ash’alah is still nightsaber and frostsaber...

-Ner'zhul, (1) he wept when discovered how he was tricked, (2) he refused to corrupt his fellow orcs further.
We learned his mother-in-law's name in WoD, but it is not here.

-The First War is still mess. It has weird chronology in both books. +Several words changed, nothing drastic.

The Third War, (1)Arthas disbanded the Silver Hand and sent Uther away (2)Arthas sent Uther and his knights away (top kek).
+Near the end of the books, the organizations page, the disbanding is also replaced to „the knights being decimated during the Third War.“

;Archimonde
(1)Kel'Thuzad used used the book (of Medivh) to summon... Archimonde, loyal and powerful servant of Sargeras, who immediately crushed Dalaran.
(2)Kel'thuzad used the book to summon... Archimonde, who immediately crushed Dalaran.

-Archimonde, first book had many details on Archimonde and now one detail was removed. (1) he loyally served Sargeras and the Burning Legion and that he did the Third War as per the will of Sargeras. The two references to Sargeras are now gone; (2) he loyally served the Burning Legion. (what the heck does that mean? He isn't loyal to Sargeras or what)

-Kil'jaeden now sought Illidan, (2)a former night elf turned demon, instead of (1) night elf demon hunter.

;Grommash not tricked?
-(1)He was tricked into once more drinking the blood of Mannoroth. (2) Once again he drank the blood.
+All appearances of Grom changed to Grommash.

;Alliance of Lordaeron page, Kul Tiras & gnomes
Soldiers of Kul Tiras changed to men of Kul Tiras (wut?)

(1)The gnomes, originally allies of Ironforge, served the Alliance of Lordaeron well during the Second War, providing valuable technology to aid their cause. They formally joined the Alliance as a sovereign nation after the Third War, hoping to reclaim their capital city of Gnomeregan from a trogg invasion.
(2)The gnomes joined the Alliance of Lordaeron during the Second War, providing valuable technology to aid the case, but they suffered a serious blow during the Third War when monstrous troggs invaded their capital.

;Varian’s entry,
(1)Llane’s heart cut off by Garona (That's from the Warcraft II manual, which is not true coz she brought it to Guldan, which in the current lore didn't happen)
(2) just death.
added new High King of the Alliance paragraph: he refrained from killing Garrosh and he placed his trust to the heroes of the Alliance in Draenor. Also, the name Landen is finally changed to Landan, yet Adamant is not Barathen.

The entries of Anduin, Jaina, Malkorok, Eitrigg as well as Aysa, Ji and Taran are a bit updated to include the ending of MoP, but none new info. Among Jaina's new titles is the title of Archmage.
Lilian Voss, Bolvar and Darion are no longer deceased but undead. Lilian's entry wasn't update to reflect her WoD appearance.

Guldan compelling Garona to kill Llane is still not corrected; Millhouse, Gazlowe & Amnenar not updated. J.D. Collie's expertise can no longer shed new light on the titans and their creations (removed).

-Wrathion is no longer Deathwing's son.
(1) directly called Wrathion DW's son.
(2) all references to this are now gone.
Wrathion replaced Sindragosa's place and Nyxondra is listed as his mother, that's all. (even though Kosak had already confirmed new lineage, DW is Wrathion's grandpa). From his entry, the last sentence is interesting: Whether Wrathion’s continued schemes are truly for altruistic purposes, or part of a greater plan, has yet to be determined.

(1)Twilight's Hammer cult's goal was to bring Armageddon to the world. bye bye cool word, (2) their goal was to bring about the world's end.

(1)...with the orc shaman Thrall temporarily taking Deathwing's place as representative of the element of Earth...
(2)....with the orc shaman Thrall temporarily taking Deathwing's place as Aspect of Earth...

Broll (1) works as a member of the new Council of Tirisfal.
(2) He briefly served as a member of the New Order of Tirisfal.

Jarod (2) leads the Watchers. His goal is to hunt down and stop Maiev, before she descends into insanity. Maiev is also listed as leader of the Watchers.

In the night elven page, there is a new character, Cordana Felsong, describing the events of WoD: She was not infallible, she was corrupted by Gul´dan through the Orb of Dominion. Her affiliation was with the Alliance and it is with the Shadow Council now.

Velen’s race was (1) eredar. (2) Now is draenei.

Maraad’s entry updated, Med’an is absent from his relatives (yet the halfbreed isn’t removed from rest of his family’s entries). Maraad fought the orcs on AU Draenor because he sought redemption for his past failures.

Iridi and Ishanah are gone and new additions are Vindicator Nobundo and Exarch Akama... which is odd because AU characters have their own chapter but w/e. AU Nobundo, after the Nagrand stuff, continued to battle the Iron Horde.

(1)Under the iron rule of Warchief Hellscream, the orcs seek to crush their enemies and claim the land and resources that Hellscream believes they rightfully deserve.
(2)Having overthrown the tyrant Warchief Hellscream, the orcs now follow Vol’jin’s leadership, working to rebuild the Horde’s strength and protect its interests.

When on Draenor, Thrall was careful not to reveal his lineage.

-In WoD, we learned the names of Garrosh's family and Thrall's new relatives. Garrosh's family, Golka and Golmash are okay, but are missing in MU!Grommash's entry (there, Garrosh is not even listed as deceased).

Fenris Wolfbrother (who was confirmed in MU to be relative to Durotan and thus to Thrall by Neilson) is absent completely (Ga'nar was last-minute addition to the first book). We learned that Draka had a sister and a brother-in-law in WoD but they too are absent. Also, no name for Thrall's new kid.

The tauren and troll entries are switched, trolls come now right after orcs.

Baine’s entry completely rewritten to include Cata events (WC3 event gone) as well the MoP ending and War Crimes. He is a staunch supporter of Warchief Vol’jin.

Xarantaur (1) was taught by Cenarius in the early days of the world.
(2) he was taught millennia ago.

Sylvanas and Vereesa during Garrosh’s trial are mentioned. Sylvanas vowed to never love again after her sister prevented Garrosh’s assassination.

Alexi and Weldon’s appearance in Draenor is mentioned, they rekindled their old feud but neither of them is listed as deceased.

Sentence on how Lor’themar was injured during the Third War was added and is probably reference to Blood of the Highborne?

;New chapters of (2)
- Siege of Orgrimmar which describes the Thunder Isle events and the goblin dig site in the Vale. It says that Vol'jin was assassinated (attempted) after these two events but it happened in patch 5.1, before the Thunder King. The rebellion happens and then the destruction of the Vale.
It also says that loyalists who were dedicated to Hellscream's cause flocked to Orgrimmar to stand by their Warchief. Mantid threw support behind Garrosh -- or at least behind the dark powers that he had harnessed.

- Next is the Trial of Garrosh Hellscream which details Kairoz, the Timeless Isle and the Vision of Time, which can show events from any period in history and potential futures. At the trial, hundreds were present, and every Horde and Alliance leader. It continues to the escape itself. Garrosh & Kairoz journeyed 35 years into the past to an alternate Draenor. In a few sentences, the Hellscream short story is then summarized.

- Next chapter, The Iron Horde, has turning the color of the Dark Portal's energies, Maraad, Thrall and Khadgar leading fight and being stranded on Draenor, seeking new allies. The Azerothian heroes later re-established contact with Azeroth. Khadgar dedicated himself to strike down Gul'dan. Gul'dan's skin turned from brown to green bc fel corruption from drinking the blood. Thrall kills Garrosh in mak'gora where it all began.

-Next chapter is Highmaul and Blackrock Foundry, sums the both raids.
-Next, Gul'dan and the Legion, was in the preview IIRC.

The last one is Return of the Legion. Gul'dan is banished by demons to Azeroth, he opens the Tomb of Sargeras and is fully devoted to the Legion. Alliance and Horde go to the Isles to stop Sargeras's return - we need the Pillars of Creation.

Although transformed into a demon, Illidan still sought the end of the Legion. It is a legend that Maiev took Illidan's body and the Illidari to the Vault of the Wardens (It's also in the official page, IIRC)

In AU Draenor section, we have Grommash, Gul’dan, orc clans (Blackrock, Bleeding Hollow, Shattered Hand, Frostwolf, Warsong and Shadowmoon) and Yrel with Velen. Grom forsook the Warsong, and named Garrosh as its leader and gave him his Gorehowl. Later, after being imprisoned in Hellfire Citadel and after being freed by the adventurers, he reclaimed Gorehowl and went to fight Gul'dan at the Black Gate (not sure if he had Gorehowl during Zakuun fight?) Guldan summoned Archimonde to deal with the problem (azeroth’s heroes, i guess). Archimonde was defeated but nothing on whether he was perma-killed or what (but I guess not, since Blizz changed its mind). Bleeding Hollow has its name because of a hidden chamber in Tanaan. Kilrogg’s death in Hellfire was glorious for him.
The arena from Lords of War is the same where Kargath dies in Highmaul.
The Frostwolves are one of the smallest of clans.
Shadowmoons have a history of astrology, speaking the language of the stars. Nerzhul's soul was consumed by the shadows of the Void.
Yrel saved Durotan during the Blackhand fight, because she was strengthened by Maraad’s words. Her armor is enhanced by the Holy Light.
Then we have small descriptions of the Primals and Breakers races as well as arakkoa, the pale, saberon and ogres.

-The Old Gods are described as (2) imprisoned or in apparent defeat. (1) only imprisoned.

-The timeline. Year 30 ends with dethroning Garrosh. War Crimes and WoD happened in year 31 and it is named as Assault on the Dark Portal. There is also a new addition in the Fall of Stormwind. The first UVG had it in year 5, now it is year 3-5. You can check it here: https://wow.gamepedia.com/index.php?...&oldid=3659714
-Mistakes such as Baine in the battlecry picture instead of Cairne, Magni as Dagran II's uncle and Lilian's father Archibishop Benedictus; Shakuun confirmed deceased (was not)! This at least is fixed.

-For some reason, Exodar is italized everywhere.

And that's all.

The book is quite good for a newbie together with the Chronicle, despite its several mistakes and discrepancies i guess.

Last edited by Mordecay; 07-04-2016 at 11:34 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 07-04-2016, 02:18 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

Echo of the Past
BaronGrackle's Avatar
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 15,162

Default

Woot, the Gnomes are in the Second War Alliance again!

Arthas no longer disbanded the Silver Hand.

Something.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 07-04-2016 at 02:20 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 07-04-2016, 03:00 PM
Torch Torch is offline

Eternal
Torch's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 4,279
BattleTag: Torch#2569

Default

So Blizzard basically admit that it's okay to murder, mutilate, and call a traitor someone who was corrupted by a mind control orb!
__________________
"Terrorism, a job for lazy people and wankers"

If I die, blame it on BfA
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lore, world of warcraft

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.