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  #57951  
Old 07-17-2019, 09:26 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Unfortunately, there's no way he can be found guilty at this point. Years of blocking federal court appointments (not just SCOTUS seats) has resulted in a stacked judicial branch that doesn't care about the Constitution and will make the president a monarch. There's no real chance of even the blatant violations of the emoluments clause sticking.
The only hope we have is a huge blue wave to remove those justices from their seats and put good ones in their place. Unfortunately, the right is trying to impede democracy at all costs and send us spiraling further into fascism.
This is the real danger with what Trump and the Repubs have done, they've changed the votes needed so one party can ignore others for a lot of things, and they've altered the way our democracy... WORKED in fundamental ways just so they can get their way.
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Old 07-17-2019, 01:20 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Okay, I do think this is a problem the Democrats are facing: it doesn't look like they have any idea what to even impeach Trump for.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/07/17/p...ote/index.html
Quote:
Green has dismissed calls from within his party to hold off on the resolution, which he introduced Tuesday evening, arguing that impeachment should follow Tuesday's House vote that condemned the President's racist tweets.

"I should not hold off, we should go forward as expeditiously as possible and we should do so because on yesterday we convicted the President ... The condemnation was a conviction. Today we have the opportunity to punish," Green said a reference to the resolution that passed Tuesday condemning racist language used by the President. "As a result of what we did yesterday, the President suffers no harm, he doesn't have to pay any fine, he's not going to lose his job. But today we have the opportunity to punish."
Quote:
But Green said he chose to move forward with his resolution because he thinks Congress should send Trump "a powerful message that this country will not tolerate bigotry, racism, hate, xenophobia, Islamophobia."

He noted that his impeachment resolution is not connected to Mueller or the findings of his investigation.

"You don't delay justice. The Mueller hearing has nothing to do with what we're doing now. The Mueller hearing is all about obstruction, this is about bigotry and racism and that racism that's been infused into policy," Green said.
So Representative Green introduced a resolution to impeach Donald Trump for...
for racist and hateful tweets he made on Twitter? Is that even a thing?

And the rest of them are anticipating that Mueller will give testimony that makes stronger grounds for impeachment than his report was able to give?

Pelosi has a point. They can't just impeach the president for being a jackass. That won't help them.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 07-17-2019 at 02:09 PM..
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  #57953  
Old 07-17-2019, 02:33 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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TBF, there's no reason they couldn't bring up articles of impeachment multiple times for unique criminal violations. I don't really see that happening, but who the fuck knows?

The argument in favor of impeachment is that it gives the minority party the bully pulpit (much as Repubs did with Clinton in the 90s) and allows them the media space to get more clips and soundbites out into the public that will harm Trump's image. It's the same thing with the Mueller testimony. Most people didn't read the redacted Mueller report, so having him testify and get a lot of the same statements on camera will could go a long way to chip away at the "Totally Exonerated" narrative.
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  #57954  
Old 07-18-2019, 11:22 AM
Ardeiute Ardeiute is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
The cop that murdered that innocent man in the hotel room a while back was rehired so that the department could give him free money for life.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48969432

If you haven't seen the video, I recommend going and finding it. You need to see what our police force is doing and what the "thin blue line" types are defending.
The fact that this whole thing was just glossed over and barely reported on just outrages me.
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  #57955  
Old 07-19-2019, 08:06 AM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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The fact that this whole thing was just glossed over and barely reported on just outrages me.
Welcome to the shit show.
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  #57956  
Old 07-20-2019, 02:21 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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It seems that for the religious right, adultery and concentration camps are fine, but saying "goddamn" is just the worst.
https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/...-said-goddamn/
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  #57957  
Old 07-20-2019, 04:53 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Ah yes, "friendlyatheist.patheos.com" sounds like such a great source of news for well-reasoned individuals.
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  #57958  
Old 07-20-2019, 10:44 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Ah yes, "friendlyatheist.patheos.com" sounds like such a great source of news for well-reasoned individuals.
Not an argument.
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  #57959  
Old 07-21-2019, 04:10 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Not an argument.
Regardless it's anecdotal and not really relevant.
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Old 07-22-2019, 01:07 AM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Yes, this is nothing.

If Trump saying, "Goddamn" is the line in the sand for "True Christians™"....
instead of family separations and Muslim bans and paid off/intimidated victims of sexual assault and rape, then that's insane.

EDIT: Oops, there I go drunkposting in politics again. I'll piggyback off this to pivot to something more substantive:

Trump says Mueller should not be allowed to testify about investigating possible obstruction of justice

Quote:
In the end it will be bad for him and the phony Democrats in Congress who have done nothing but waste time on this ridiculous Witch Hunt. Result of the Mueller Report, NO COLLUSION, NO OBSTRUCTION!
How is that not intimidating a witness? Do right wingers even see this stuff in the first place? What sort of cognitive dissonance do you need to be on to think this doesn't make Trump look super weak, insecure, and above all, really guilty?
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Last edited by Saranus; 07-22-2019 at 11:31 AM..
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  #57961  
Old 07-22-2019, 02:49 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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So if America wasn't great and needed to be "made great again," why didn't the MAGAts just leave?
Also, if you should leave your country if you don't like what's going on there, why do the people who now claim this have a problem accepting refugees?
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Old 07-22-2019, 03:11 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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https://www.nola.com/news/crime_poli...e15730e4f.html

Meanwhile, this is seems to be becoming a trend. Threatening and violent language toward sitting members of Congress from law enforcement. At least the Gretna PD actually held these fools to account and fired them. Why can't the CBP have this standard of integrity? Is anyone going to suggest that we should implicitly trust law enforcement?

But honest to god, I'm worried eventually some unhinged individual is going to act on this rhetoric and one of these young ladies is going to be hurt. I really hope not.
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  #57963  
Old 07-22-2019, 04:19 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
https://www.nola.com/news/crime_poli...e15730e4f.html

Meanwhile, this is seems to be becoming a trend. Threatening and violent language toward sitting members of Congress from law enforcement. At least the Gretna PD actually held these fools to account and fired them. Why can't the CBP have this standard of integrity? Is anyone going to suggest that we should implicitly trust law enforcement?

But honest to god, I'm worried eventually some unhinged individual is going to act on this rhetoric and one of these young ladies is going to be hurt. I really hope not.
He'll be hired by another department by the end of the year.
And you're forgetting the right has already tried quite a few attacks now. Even the guy who mailed a bunch of bombs wasn't that long ago.
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  #57964  
Old 07-22-2019, 07:26 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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I just... I just don't understand how a fat, cheeto-haired New Yorker who openly writes books about conning people, who is physically incapable of a hard day's work, who can barely go through a speech without cursing, who's on his third wife and proud of his affairs, who seems to mimic the gestures of Benito Mussolini... how can he be anything resembling our understanding of "charismatic"? Especially for rural, or Southern, or Christian-identifying parts of the country?

I mean, look at this crazy movie. I saw this on the shelves of fucking Walmart: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Prophecy

No one's going to beat him in 2020, are they? But he'll be gone after that. If the next president isn't another reality star celebrity, maybe things will normalize enough for me to argue with all of you as much as I'm supposed to again.
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  #57965  
Old 07-22-2019, 07:36 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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I just... I just don't understand how a fat, cheeto-haired New Yorker who openly writes books about conning people, who is physically incapable of a hard day's work, who can barely go through a speech without cursing, who's on his third wife and proud of his affairs, who seems to mimic the gestures of Benito Mussolini... how can he be anything resembling our understanding of "charismatic"? Especially for rural, or Southern, or Christian-identifying parts of the country?

I mean, look at this crazy movie. I saw this on the shelves of fucking Walmart: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Prophecy

No one's going to beat him in 2020, are they? But he'll be gone after that. If the next president isn't another reality star celebrity, maybe things will normalize enough for me to argue with all of you as much as I'm supposed to again.
Depends on how hard republicans and Russia work to steal the election (they've been hard at work for years now) and whether anybody is able to stop them. Failing that, you're assuming donnie will cede power peacefully.
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Old 07-22-2019, 08:04 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Failing that, you're assuming donnie will cede power peacefully.
Psshaw, he'd need military pledging themselves to him for that to be a thing. And if it somehow became a thing, I'm sure there'd be some sort of resistance group for me to be killed in. Or something.

But really, when you take his dipstick mouth out of the equation, how many Republican policies has he actually shifted? Just tariffs. Everything else he's just made more crazy - but in the same direction.

Nah, we can be more scared of the guys who come AFTER Trump and aren't imbeciles, the ones who are competent and frightening. But maybe that means they won't be as popular.

Maybe only imbeciles can be popular enough to be elected nowadays. That should make us feel better, knowing that the conniving masterminds have no hope of defeating the oafs and blunderbusses - the reality stars.
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Old 07-24-2019, 08:23 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Someone dumb down this testimony for me. I don’t think it’s going anywhere.
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Old 07-24-2019, 09:22 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Someone dumb down this testimony for me. I don’t think it’s going anywhere.
Basically Republicans are smearing Mueller and Democrats are drawing attention to the fact that Mueller's report in no way exonerated Trump and in fact he could be charged with obstruction if he weren't a sitting president.
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Old 07-24-2019, 09:26 AM
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Earlier in his testimony, under questioning from Nadler, Mueller torpedoed two of Trump’s favorite lines.

Nadler asked Mueller if it was true that his report did not clear the president of obstruction of justice. Mueller answered, “Correct—it is not what the report said.”

“What about total exoneration?” Nadler asked, referring to a phrase the president has tweeted many times. “Did you actually totally exonerate the president?”

“No,” Mueller replied.

He also confirmed that Trump refused to sit for an interview with his team.
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Old 07-24-2019, 09:31 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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It's honestly kind of terrifying looking at twitter, it feels like Republicans live in an entirely different world.
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Old 07-24-2019, 02:38 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Basically Republicans are smearing Mueller and Democrats are drawing attention to the fact that Mueller's report in no way exonerated Trump and in fact he could be charged with obstruction if he weren't a sitting president.
I'd like to point out that the only backing behind "you can't indict a sitting president" thing is a memo from the Nixon administration. In other words, nothing except partisan right-wing obstruction. If a Democrat ever does anything indictable in office, they'll be held accountable. The law only applies to them.

Mueller also avoided the word "impeachment" but did effectively recommend it, referring to it as "the Constitutional process."

But it really doesn't matter what he said or what he recommends. The reich, er, sorry, the right will cover for their team no matter what they've done. Even if it means America plays bottom bitch to Russia, as they've proven.

At any rate here are some fun quotes from today:

Demings: Did "lies by Trump campaign officials and administration officials" impede your investigation?
Mueller: "I would generally agree with that."



Schiff: Russia committed federal crimes in order to help Donald Trump?
Mueller: When you're talking about the computer crimes charged in our case, absolutely.
Schiff: Trump campaign officials built their strategy - their messaging strategy around those stolen documents?
Mueller: Uhm, generally that is true.
Schiff: And then they lied to cover it up?
Mueller: Generally that is true

Lieu: The reason you didn't indict Trump is because of OLC opinion that you cannot indict a sitting president, correct?
Mueller: That is correct

Hurd: Did you think that this was a single attempt by the Russians to get involved in our election or did you find evidence to suggest they’ll try to do this again?
Robert Mueller: It wasn’t a single attempt. They’re doing it as we sit here

MUELLER: . . .What we did is provide to the attorney general in the form of a confidential memorandum our understanding of the case, those cases that were brought, those cases that were declined, that one case where the president cannot be charged with a crime.
BUCK: Okay, but the … could you charge the president with a crime after he left office?
MUELLER: Yes.
BUCK: You believe that he committed … you could charge the president of the United States with obstruction of justice after he left office?
MUELLER: Yes.

NADLER: So the report did not conclude that he did not commit obstruction of justice, is that correct?
MUELLER: That is correct.
NADLER: And what about total exoneration? Did you actually totally exonerate the president?
MUELLER: No.
NADLER: Now, in fact, your report expressly states that it does not exonerate the president.
MUELLER: It does.
NADLER: And your investigation actually found, quote, “multiple acts by the president that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian interference and obstruction investigations.” Is that correct?
MUELLER: Correct.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:08 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Old 07-25-2019, 09:32 AM
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This addresses several of the point that have been discussed on the last few pages here. It's a bit long, but worth the watch. Sort of cuts through the hysteria coming from all sides, and takes a measured historical look at stuff like concentration camps, fascism, and the incremental slide into state-sponsored atrocities.

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Old 07-25-2019, 10:16 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I feel like there worldviews of Republicans and Democrats have changed irreconcilably, I worry there's no way to find common ground anymore because the fundamental beliefs of what's TRUE regarding what's happening are so different.
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Old 07-25-2019, 05:18 PM
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I feel like there worldviews of Republicans and Democrats have changed irreconcilably, I worry there's no way to find common ground anymore because the fundamental beliefs of what's TRUE regarding what's happening are so different.
Really? I don't think the core belief set of either has changed all that much. It's just coming out in an unfiltered way.
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