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Old 05-04-2017, 09:32 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Default Society from scratch

Hello, proto-governator. You have been selected by the Master AI to design a template for the political system of the colony at Sared Mar.

About the colony: Sared Mar is a temperate peninsula on the planet of Dorr, which is earthlike in both gravity and environment. It is roughly the size of Brazil. It contains a fair amount of resources, though nothing too rare. It will contain a population of twenty-thousand, all selected from your state of origin. It will not be the only colony on this world. The territories of Dorr world have been divided at the Third Interplanetary Geographical Congress, resulting in a total of 72 states establishing colonies.

Due to the limitations on light speed communication, the colonies will be effectively independent from their founding nation. As such, it provides an opportunity to create a society from scratch. That is where you come in. You will not be the leader of your people by default. You will instead choose the format which the government will take.

How is your government formed? What will be its duties? What will be its checks and balances? What rights will it grant the people? What restrictions will be imposed upon them? Will the progression of the colony's development alter any of these?

tl;dr: You get the opportunity to design a government for a modern society essentially from scratch. Whachu gonna do?
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Old 05-04-2017, 09:41 AM
Bolvar Bolvar is offline

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Bolvar is a benevolent dictator.
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Old 05-04-2017, 09:56 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Early European settlers in North America were starving and dying because individuals were too lazy to work. John Smith had to deny food to people that didn't work in order to ensure not everyone died.
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Old 05-04-2017, 10:15 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Early European settlers in North America were starving and dying because individuals were too lazy to work. John Smith had to deny food to people that didn't work in order to ensure not everyone died.
Sometimes I just wonder what the hell goes on in that head of yours.
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Old 05-04-2017, 10:17 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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How is your government formed? What will be its duties? What will be its checks and balances? What rights will it grant the people? What restrictions will be imposed upon them? Will the progression of the colony's development alter any of these?
Consent of the governed.

To provide a baseline foundation for the social contract, ensuring life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness through regulation of monopolies and protection of minority interests from abuse by more dominant majorities or lobbies, and providing support for technological and artistic ventures for the public good.

Total transparency, public figures financials are public information during, 3 years prior, and for 5 years after they enter office. Citizens can track votes and decisions from their representatives on mobile devices and public terminals.

Essentially the US bill of rights, though with tighter gun control.

Don't murder people. Don't steal. Don't Con people.

Alterations would be made as time passes, minimum income would in fact have to come after initial development of infrastructure.
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Old 05-04-2017, 10:20 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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@Mutter: And how will the government be structured?

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Bolvar is a benevolent dictator.
How will you tax the benevolently subjected? What will you do with those taxes? How will your successor be chosen?
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Old 05-04-2017, 11:20 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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@Mutter: And how will the government be structured?



How will you tax the benevolently subjected? What will you do with those taxes? How will your successor be chosen?
Will probably write up something small tomorrow or this weekend, already swamped by Solthris. Speaking of, you should join in the fun if you have the time.
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Old 05-04-2017, 11:22 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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My military junta arms the populace of Mutterstopia and encourages them to break their chains of tyranny.
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Old 05-04-2017, 11:28 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Old 05-04-2017, 11:37 AM
Bolvar Bolvar is offline

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How will you tax the benevolently subjected? What will you do with those taxes? How will your successor be chosen?
1. Flat tax at a rate of 25%. Roads, schools, and police/fire/military funded. Everything else? You're on your own. As long as my Presidential palace is fully staffed and equipped...

2. Successor? Why should I care about what happens to you plebes after I die? I suppose I could groom one of my children for the job... I'd sure hate to have to pick a favorite...
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Old 05-04-2017, 11:43 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Roads, schools, and police/fire/military funded.
Socialist!
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Old 05-04-2017, 11:52 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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You motherfraker! You ripped this idea straight out of my head! I was just about to bump my discussion thread with this exact scenario


Alright then I will just lay out my idea:

-It would be a decentralized, hierarchical state. Every neighbourhood would have a council and some funds they will be able to decide how to spend. Each neighbourhood sends a few representatives to a wider, town or city district council and these people rule that area. They send representatives to a regional council which does the same for the nation-wide parliament, there would possibly be more or fewer steps depending on country size. While the local councils have great leeway and self-rule there is top-down rule coming from higher councils limited by the constitution ofc. Councilmen vote and elect public figures from their numbers, a city council will vote on major and helpers the parliament will vote in the PM and ministers.
There is also a great deal of direct democracy. Most questions of public interest are voted on. Even some technical decisions are voted on but you need to have a degree or appropriate certificate to show you know what you are talking about. Indeed every vote has a small quiz that needs to be passed to show the citizen knows the issues at hand. This allows the greatest degree of democracy while eliminating the "idiot voter" issue. The govt. would only internally handle minor decisions and day to day running of govt. There would be an independent judiciary, possibly at some or all council levels. Also lots of checks and balances to prevent govt. abuse and tyranny of the majority situations.
This might seem like a whole lot of bureaucracy and it is intended. The govt. is intended to be like a company and every citizen is a shareholder and so they are expected to be politically active to some degree. Besides as automation takes more and more jobs political engagement is a great way to both employ and give a purpose to people. As a bonus you get a very democratic, tranparent and easily engaged govt.

-Rule of law is absolute, there is no leeway or special favors. Corruption is punished most severely. Dura lex, sed lex.
Crimes get flexible punishments for example someone could get out quicker on good behavior but someone clearly mentally unhinged might never get out even if in on a smaller offense. Not 100% on this, there is a loophole to put political enemies away indefinitely so maybe put in maximum (and minimum) sentences for crimes. No death penalty.

-Economically the country would have property rights or at least semi-permanent rights in the form of "everything is govt. owned but you own a part of the govt. and ergo your personal affects are effectively yours."
If labour is still needed (i.e. full automation not achieved) there would be inequality but it would be more like a gentle slope and not like a stalgmite like it is now. Indeed regardless of the level of automation the idea is that everyone should proportionally benefit from increasing national prosperity. If national wealth doubles everyone gets double what they were getting before, rather than someone getting nothing and someone getting a 10fold increase.
The country would strive towards a base level of prosperity available to all that would include housing, food, utilities, healthcare, education and further privileges as economy allows. Those who contribute more get more based on their utility to the country, again unless there is full automation in which case there is full on socialism.
I think a good way to control population growth (which could be especially problematic if people lived forever) is to require of parents to pay for the child's "base level of prosperity" from their own accumulated wealth. So for example someone with no children could be 11x as better off as someone who had 10 kids leaving his kids and themselves at the "base level of prosperity" while the childless person has kept their growing wealth. This way you use people's greed against them, if they want more affluence then have fewer kids which limits growth. If pop. growth is needed just give subventions on kids. In line with this philosophy there would also be no inflation, meaning value gained cannot decline only increase or at worst remain the same.

-Culturally there would be freedom of speech (and religion and most forms of diversity), probably completely unrestricted though there is a whole discussion to be had about that and similar issues (i.e. what if a majority votes to kill or deport the minority, is that allowed? I'd say not but where is the limit to democratic action).
Also civic-mindedness would be paramount and children would be raised to abhor corruption of any kind. This probably means the country's constitution would be designed to be very difficult to change or even impossible. Corruption seeks to seep in through any crack and then widen those cracks until the whole structure is in shambles, it must be fought constantly and reduced to the smallest possible extent. People are raised and encouraged to love and take pride as well as take part in the government. Prosperity of state and citizens is paramount and any foreigners are a distant consideration in comparison.
Social cohesion is a good thing and to that extent immigration should be very slight, useful and similar people gain obvious preference and assimilation is highly emphasized.
In short the welfare of the people is the most important thing, the people are taught to be forward looking, educated and open minded but also to take pride and zealously maintain their institutions by participating in them and defending them from all threats.


In short it would be a a highly democratic, nationalistic, civic minded country whose main goal is the prosperity of its own citizens and their cultural and material enrichment. It would be rather inward looking, dealing only peacefully with other countries but not afraid to defend itself and reciprocate. Ironically starting from scratch I've created something that sounds a lot like how the US founding fathers envisioned America, though my country would be a lot more equal and democratic.

A bit of a long read, if someone gets this far be sure to tell me so I know I didn't waste a lot of my time just now

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Old 05-04-2017, 11:54 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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My military junta arms the populace of Mutterstopia and encourages them to break their chains of tyranny.
My content and untyrranized populace decline your offer and report this attempted subversion to the proper authorities

Trade sanctions follow
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Old 05-04-2017, 11:58 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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My content and untyrranized populace decline your offer and report this attempted subversion to the proper authorities

Trade sanctions follow
Sounds like they need to be liberated!
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Old 05-04-2017, 02:37 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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What's the matter, Douglas Adams is too mainstream for you hipsters?

And why is this in the Halls?
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Old 05-04-2017, 03:44 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I would just do a flat 18% tax on business, income, investments ect... with a flat cap on deductions. The government would be restrained and there would be more local power. The government would be organized on a bottom up approach where things would be handled at the lowest level reasonable. The military would be properly funded and so would the police. There would be a big focus on STEM because by utilizing technology we can better our people.
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Old 05-04-2017, 03:59 PM
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We're bringin' back feudalism, baby!

The people will bring me a portion of the fruits of their labour, and in exchange, I'll provide them with protection and a place to live.

Only in space.
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Old 05-04-2017, 10:47 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Do I choose my inhabitants as well, or is it predetermined? You know, because there is no universally perfect society, only a perfect society for a certain kind of people.
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Old 05-04-2017, 10:55 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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What's the matter, Douglas Adams is too mainstream for you hipsters?

And why is this in the Halls?
The Hitchhiker?
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Old 05-04-2017, 11:59 PM
Yakitori Yakitori is offline

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In true Civ fashion, I go full barbarian; spawn camps around your societies early on, and just begin wrecking your shit because you didn't build any slingers early on.

Plus, my stick is the biggest.
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Old 05-05-2017, 12:03 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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In true Civ fashion, I go full barbarian; spawn camps around your societies early on, and just begin wrecking your shit because you didn't build any slingers early on.

Plus, my stick is the biggest.
Sorry, you're playing Civ but I'm playing Starcraft Co Op.

*Solar Lances.*
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Old 05-05-2017, 12:43 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Default Sorry.

It always starts with a small innocent looking scratch, and before you know it, you see yourself turning into some monstrosity straight out of Canada! Canadians, I believe they are called.
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Old 05-05-2017, 03:12 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Quote:
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Do I choose my inhabitants as well, or is it predetermined? You know, because there is no universally perfect society, only a perfect society for a certain kind of people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
It will contain a population of twenty-thousand, all selected from your state of origin.

Anyway a bit disappointed with a lot of answers here. A lot of joke answers but that is to be expected and IJ should have discouraged them in the OP. But a lot of you seem to have political ideals that amount to a flat tax of X%. How underwhelming and lame is that?
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Old 05-05-2017, 03:56 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Alright, I deleted two of my three stupid jokes. Don't make me delete the last one, please. It's my baby!
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Old 05-05-2017, 07:03 AM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Plus, my stick is the biggest.
Phrasing?

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Anyway a bit disappointed with a lot of answers here. A lot of joke answers but that is to be expected and IJ should have discouraged them in the OP. But a lot of you seem to have political ideals that amount to a flat tax of X%. How underwhelming and lame is that?
It's a Jiffy thread. You're going to get goofy answers. But what's wrong with starting off with just a little feudalism until society can find its legs? Then you just wean 'em onto a little bit of democracy, and pretty soon you've got a half-decent, functioning society.

(I'm referring to anacyclosis, by the by)

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It always starts with a small innocent looking scratch, and before you know it, you see yourself turning into some monstrosity straight out of Canada! Canadians, I believe they are called.
Well I'm preserving this one in case you change your mind.
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