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  #1  
Old 09-14-2013, 04:30 PM
Schro Schro is offline

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Default Kill the heart kill the sha?

Is it just me, or does anyone else think the whole destruction of the sha by the death of the heart completely eradicate the point of the sha? as well as making the titans look like incompetent idiots?

The Sha are the death curse of Y'shaarj.

So if he is dead dead, why does the hearts destruction mean they go away?

If that was the case and this terrible curse could be lifted, then why did the titans even keep the heart, why not just destroy it? Or if that is not possible let some idiot (like garrosh) absorb the hearts power and then destroy said idiot.


Part of me hopes that blizzard thought this through, and either the essence of the sha or the old god remains in the land, or Garrosh is keeping the old gods power alive, either as a separate personality or acting as his replacement.
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Old 09-14-2013, 04:33 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by Schro View Post
Or if that is not possible let some idiot (like garrosh) absorb the hearts power and then destroy said idiot.
That's pretty much what happened.
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Old 09-14-2013, 04:42 PM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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Originally Posted by Schro View Post
Is it just me, or does anyone else think the whole destruction of the sha by the death of the heart completely eradicate the point of the sha? as well as making the titans look like incompetent idiots?

The Sha are the death curse of Y'shaarj.

So if he is dead dead, why does the hearts destruction mean they go away?

If that was the case and this terrible curse could be lifted, then why did the titans even keep the heart, why not just destroy it? Or if that is not possible let some idiot (like garrosh) absorb the hearts power and then destroy said idiot.


Part of me hopes that blizzard thought this through, and either the essence of the sha or the old god remains in the land, or Garrosh is keeping the old gods power alive, either as a separate personality or acting as his replacement.
They made a mess about the story... specially Kosak. For example, he said in Twitter that the heart was resurrected. But the Dungeon Journal says the Heart was awakened, linking with the 5.3 scenario in which Y'shaarj says "I only sleep".

He was never "dead dead", not even physically (you can see the Hearth beating even before being thrown to the Pools).

The problem is that Y'shaarj is likely not ended. Yes, the hearth was killed in the process of being drained by Garrosh. But said energy (the OG essence) evaporated when he was beated: he was "de-sha-ified". I think that, in the best case, he has been sent away to the OG's original dimension... or maybe he has lost his physical form completely.
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Old 09-14-2013, 04:43 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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It is entirely possible that there are horrible unforeseen consequences to physically eradicating an old god, like we did to Yoggy, YS and possibly Big C.

Expect this nebulous danger to manifest when it is most convenient for Blizzard.
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Old 09-14-2013, 04:43 PM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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I wonder what happened to the whole "If you kill Old Gods, you destroy Azeroth" thing.
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Old 09-14-2013, 04:55 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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I like how the facebook ad for SoO is this
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Let the Reckoning begin! Garrosh Hellscream has taken Orgrimmar. It's time to take it back.
OMG HORDE BIAS!!!!
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Old 09-14-2013, 05:04 PM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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I wonder what happened to the whole "If you kill Old Gods, you destroy Azeroth" thing.
We haven't killed any OG. Nyorloth already said that it is not so simple to kill OG. They are outside life and death, time and space.

If it was so simple... the Titans would have done that.
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Old 09-14-2013, 05:26 PM
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I like how the facebook ad for SoO is this


OMG HORDE BIAS!!!!
Wrong thread, dude...
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Old 09-14-2013, 06:44 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Wrong thread, dude...
It totally wasn't when I posted this.. What the hell is up with SoL these days? I'm clicking on threads and its taking me to different threads and shit.
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  #10  
Old 09-15-2013, 11:58 PM
Stormcrusher Stormcrusher is offline

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I still stand by my theory that the reason the Titans didn't kill the Old Gods is because the only way to truly kill them is to destroy Azeroth itself. That's why they say that killing the Old Gods would destroy Azeroth, because that is the only way to kill them.

Ulduar calls them parasites and we know they exist outside of life and death, I think they are tied in with the planet itself almost Gaia like. An cancer within the genetic code of Azeroth itself. Killing them only allows them to re manifest within Azeroth. This is why the Titans imprisoned them they way they did. By keeping the heart of Y'shaarj alive and locked away, it kept him from returning. Same with the other Old Gods, this is why the versions we fight seem incomplete, we are fighting butchered remains that have been locked up by the Titans to keep them from regenerating into their Old Forms. This lead to the Old Gods actually wanting us to kill them so they can be released and reborn. The Titans fought the Old Gods for a millennium it is said, were they really that strong that it took a 1000 years to defeat them? or is it that it took the Titans 1000 years to figure out how to keep them from coming back from the dead?

So we aren't killing Old Gods, we are freeing them from their Titan Imprisonment. The Titans simply put them in stasis style prisons to keep them from coming back at them full strength, because the only way to keep them from coming back is either destroying Azeroth or not letting them completely die.


So if destroying the heart caused the Sha to disappear, its not so much that they were killed as much as now Yshaar'j can now finally begin regenerating and has recalled all his energy.

Just my view on things.

Last edited by Stormcrusher; 09-16-2013 at 12:02 AM..
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Old 09-16-2013, 06:06 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Well for what it is worth it is a pretty sound one that many of us share.
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Old 09-16-2013, 06:48 AM
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Time to lay down a mindfuck:

Y'Shaarj died when Garrosh resurrected the heart.

The Old Gods are immortal and discretely indestructible. There's no way to eradicate an Old God (what I suppose we could call "true death") without also killing the host (Azeroth). So the Titans did the next best thing: they destroyed as much as they could, and sealed away the tiny remnant that remained. Now rendered impotent and heavily weakened, the Old Gods may not have been truly dead, but were as dead as they can be. I find it analogous to someone who's brain dead and depends on life support to keep their body alive. They're technically still alive, but only in the most literal sense, and you still get the occasional echo of the being that was once there.

Now the Titans figured that so long as the Old Gods were sufficiently sealed, they'd remain in this state indefinitely. They were wrong. The Old Gods were able to slowly recover and now, millions of years later, have grown strong enough to struggle against their bonds. C'Thun and Yogg-Saron were fortunate enough to have help from the Qiraji and corrupted watchers of Ulduar respectively. They managed to escape their prisons and rapidly accelerate their regeneration. Y'Shaarj, by contrast, has been sealed away this entire time and has regenerated significantly more slowly (perhaps not at all). Regardless, the Titans seals didn't work, and Y'Shaarj was able to extend a tiny bit of influence out across Pandaria - this manifests as the Sha.

Then along comes Garrosh. He kicks the heart into a pool of Titan energy, specifically designed to create and mold life. My theory is that by exposing the heart to this, the Titan energy effectively purged the Old God part of Y'Shaarj and resurrected it as mortal flesh. The destruction of the Vale was the death throe of the Old God Y'Shaarj. All that's left is, in essence, a mortal frame heavily corrupted by an Old God (essentially indistinguishable from any heavily corrupted person, such as Cho-Gall). This is why Garrosh and his forces bear the hallmarks of generic Old God corruption rather than Sha corruption. As a now-mortal being, the heart can now also be fully eradicated and experience true death. If true, this could be seeding for a pretty huge plot device for any "showdown" between the Titans and Old Gods in the future.

It would also explain why Thorim is able to destroy the Faceless Ones during the Yogg-Saron encounter. And possibly why the Sha were never really a threat to Lei Shen's empire. Vita, the Titan energy of creation, is the polar opposite of whatever energy births an Old God (let's loosely term is as Chaos for lack of a better word). As such, the two nullify each other. The term necrophotic, "dead light," also makes more sense in this context.

It also sheds more light on the nature of the Curse of Flesh. Vita creates souls and being. Chaos created organic flesh, that constant cycling of life, death, and mutation. Hence why Titan creations have essence/souls but no fleshy bodies, whereas Old Gods have "pure" bodies but no soul or spark of life (does this sound like Zerg vs. Protoss to anyone?). The Curse of Flesh is what happens when Vita is completely nullified in a being - said being no longer has the purity of essence of a Titan but also does not have the immortal flesh of an Old God. What's left is us - simple organic beings.

TL;DR

What Garrosh did in the Vale was the Curse of Flesh in reverse.

This idea of nullification also better explains the reorigination device. If its purpose was to flood Azeroth with Vita, it'd leave the pure Titan constructs unharmed, since they're specifically designed to resist/contain it. The Old Gods would in turn all be nullified (with destructive results) and all organic matter would likely be overwhelmed and eradicated.
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  #13  
Old 09-16-2013, 06:54 AM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Stormcrusher and Odok's posts are good and might be right, but my personal theory is that the mortal raiders, having conquered all of the Sha through questing, were filled with so much of the anti-Sha aspects that they did what the mechanically-minded titans could not.
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:20 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by Odok View Post
It would also explain why Thorim is able to destroy the Faceless Ones during the Yogg-Saron encounter. And possibly why the Sha were never really a threat to Lei Shen's empire. Vita, the Titan energy of creation, is the polar opposite of whatever energy births an Old God (let's loosely term is as Chaos for lack of a better word). As such, the two nullify each other. The term necrophagic, "dead light," also makes more sense in this context.
This is where you lost me, but otherwise interesting theorycrafting.
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:35 AM
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This is where you lost me, but otherwise interesting theorycrafting.
Titan and Old God energy can zero-sum each other. Like a matter-antimatter reaction.

Also I misspelled it. I meant "necrophotic" aka the Tribunal designation for the Old Gods. If the Titans view themselves as life-giving creators, it'd make sense that they see their energy as "living light" (vitaphotic?) and the Old Gods as "dead light."
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:50 AM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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I mostly agree with your view on the subject, guys.

However, I think OG are not only tied to Azeroth's "code". Remember... they are outside time and space, also. I think they are tied to existence itself.

Maybe the Titans couldn't destroy them because, in order to do that, you would need to erase them from the timeway itself. With all the counsequences, that would likely mean the destruction of Azeroth as we know it... and all the future in which that "infected Azeroth timeline" would take part.

Aman'thul likely didn't want to screw the timely-woobily-continuum. Imagine a universe without Azeroth... It could be the end of it, considering the essential and special role this world and its inhabitants have dad in the present timeway.
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:52 AM
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Shas are like Davy Jones. Kill the Heart, kill the guy.
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:03 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by Odok View Post
Titan and Old God energy can zero-sum each other. Like a matter-antimatter reaction.

Also I misspelled it. I meant "necrophotic" aka the Tribunal designation for the Old Gods. If the Titans view themselves as life-giving creators, it'd make sense that they see their energy as "living light" (vitaphotic?) and the Old Gods as "dead light."
I see now, a bit confusing way to put that though. You said that "dead light" makes sense now but nowhere did you dub vita as living light.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:09 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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I still think the Celestials are also tied to Y'Shaarj, balancing the negative "Sha" emotions into the perfect Tao.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
Stormcrusher and Odok's posts are good and might be right, but my personal theory is that the mortal raiders, having conquered all of the Sha through questing, were filled with so much of the anti-Sha aspects that they did what the mechanically-minded titans could not.
Where did this mechanically-minded Titans come from?

Eonar, anyone?
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Old 09-16-2013, 02:28 PM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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Where did this mechanically-minded Titans come from?

Eonar, anyone?
The Titans seemed to be quite... human-like in the way they spoke to the Aspects. Some even made jokes.
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Old 09-16-2013, 05:06 PM
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Is it just me, or does anyone else think the whole destruction of the sha by the death of the heart completely eradicate the point of the sha?
Yeah.
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Old 09-16-2013, 05:40 PM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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Originally Posted by Cemotucu View Post
The Titans seemed to be quite... human-like in the way they spoke to the Aspects. Some even made jokes.
'xactly.
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Cemotucu View Post
The Titans seemed to be quite... human-like in the way they spoke to the Aspects. Some even made jokes.
Where did you read that? I must know!
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:35 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Where did you read that? I must know!
Just wowpedia malygos
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