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  #51  
Old 03-13-2015, 01:53 PM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

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I have a new headcanon where succubi and imps are corrupted fey creatures, namely a nymph-type creature (bipedal, unlike the dryad-like ones) and grells. Because the Emerald Dream exists as a coterminous plane that underlines all worlds, even the unordered ones (again, my headcanon) there is a "fey world" occupying that plane on most worlds - and after demons corrupt those worlds, they take the useful fey and turn them into demons.

Because of that, succubi actually can look very different from one another - because they're actually from many different worlds. So a person transformed into a demon with one spell can end up looking vaguely succub-ish - because there's no set succubus appearance other than the external traits, like horns.

The name sayaad? It's derived from "shay", which is what those bipedal nymphs are called!
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  #52  
Old 03-13-2015, 02:00 PM
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I have a new headcanon where succubi and imps are corrupted fey creatures, namely a nymph-type creature (bipedal, unlike the dryad-like ones) and grells. Because the Emerald Dream exists as a coterminous plane that underlines all worlds, even the unordered ones (again, my headcanon) there is a "fey world" occupying that plane on most worlds - and after demons corrupt those worlds, they take the useful fey and turn them into demons.

Because of that, succubi actually can look very different from one another - because they're actually from many different worlds. So a person transformed into a demon with one spell can end up looking vaguely succub-ish - because there's no set succubus appearance other than the external traits, like horns.

The name sayaad? It's derived from "shay", which is what those bipedal nymphs are called!
Your fan-lore made me dislike the weird transformations less, but they still irk me. Mostly because Blizzard won't confirm or deny that it's a case of reused models.
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  #53  
Old 04-20-2015, 08:52 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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As for why the Legion resides in the Twisting Nether, one might point to the fate of MU Draenor. It's possible that when the Legion destroys any world, its sterilized remnants are similarly blasted into the Nether, where the perpetually chaotic energies saturating that realm prevent life from reasserting itself again.

So the "Legion World" of Argus referenced in WoD is possibly - perhaps probably - a scorched husk of a planet, suspended in the Twisting Nether where it serves as a physical staging point for the demons while being unable to rejuvenate itself or produce more life of its own under constant direct exposure to the raging Nether.

It might even be a collection of chunks of its former self, considering we've been told that Outland's in a constant state of deterioration due to its position in the Nether, losing physical cohesion and continuing to break apart over time.

Which is hardly surprising; floating in the Twisting Nether as it is, Outland lacks basic things like a stable gravitational center and the orderly light of a regular sun to let it regain some natural semblance of balance.

Even in its healthiest regions the edges are desolate and crumbling apart, and when they float away those fragments lose what little Outland still maintains that keeps life going on the central landmass.

Except in reality, he "enlightened" the man'ari eredar by turning them into instruments of his grand design who all believe the same things he does about the universe around them, and enabled them to spread that "knowledge" in the form of corrupting other races into the same belief while inflicting his apocalyptic vision upon the rest of creation.
The Legion didn't destroy Draenor, though not for a lack of trying. That was Ner'zhul. Even then, if their goal is to wipe out all of creation, why would they settle on Outland for some many years while multiple races either fight or hide from them?

You can argue that instead of the Nether, it's the constant use of Fel that corrupted Argus. It may not even be as corrupted as we imagine, as there are examples of enslaved worlds as well as destroyed ones. Most of the Eredar gave themselves willingly to Sargeras, so maybe he was more merciful.

While I'm sure most demons blindly follow the Legion and their goals, I'm sure that there are individual groups and races who have their own reasons for following. Enslavement, power, and in the case of Illidan, some follow the Legion out of Fel addiction.
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  #54  
Old 04-26-2015, 09:14 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Considering that the new fel orcs are already different from the ones we are accustomed to and that Gul'dan has been turning his followers into demons, I wish that Blizzard had gone less with sha-fel-corrupted orcs and more with demon orcs. Orcs with horns and leathery wings, wouldn't they have looked great?

Edit:
What's up with Aggonar and his son Aggonis? How do you think their relationship works?
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  #55  
Old 04-26-2015, 09:17 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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What's up with Aggonar and his son Aggonis? How do you think their relationship works?
Blizz just made him a felguard, no higher thought involved.

Lazy bullshit.
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  #56  
Old 04-26-2015, 09:25 AM
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Blizz just made him a felguard, no higher thought involved.

Lazy bullshit.
Unless demons are humanoid bijū-like beings made out of fel instead of chakra. That would also explain why orcs can turn into shivarra and night elves into sayaad and terrorfiends. A demon's base race would only matter if they are turned slowly*, instead of being transformed rapidly by a demon or warlock. Theoretically, some man'ari eredar might not even have been eredar before they turned into demons!

*If you just take in fel you end up looking very similar to how you used to look but might get a new coloration and wings or horns. If you eat souls your new demon form reflects your gluttony, but you still resemble what you used to look like.

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  #57  
Old 04-26-2015, 09:35 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Unless demons are humanoid bijū-like beings made out of fel instead of chakra. That would also explain why orcs can turn into shivarra and night elves into sayaad and terrorfiends. A demon's base race would only matter if they are turned slowly*, instead of being transformed rapidly by a demon or warlock. Theoretically, some man'ari eredar might not even have been eredar before they turned into demons!

*If you just take in fel you end up looking very similar to how you used to look but might get a new coloration and wings or horns. If you eat souls your new demon form reflects your gluttony, but you still resemble what you used to look like.
No.
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  #58  
Old 04-26-2015, 09:36 AM
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Unless demons are humanoid bijū-like beings made out of fel instead of chakra. That would also explain why orcs can turn into shivarra and night elves into sayaad and terrorfiends. A demon's base race would only matter if they are turned slowly*, instead of being transformed rapidly by a demon or warlock. Theoretically, some man'ari eredar might not even have been eredar before they turned into demons!

*If you just take in fel you end up looking very similar to how you used to look but might get a new coloration and wings or horns. If you eat souls your new demon form reflects your gluttony, but you still resemble what you used to look like.
I'm not a fan of the idea that species is something demons take on and off like a coat.

What's the point of culture if it's that malleable?
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  #59  
Old 04-26-2015, 09:38 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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I'm not a fan of the idea that species is something demons take on and off like a coat.

What's the point of culture if it's that malleable?
I don't like it either, but it's the only way I can explain some transformations Blizzard has allowed to happen. It would also explain why demons are immortal.
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  #60  
Old 04-26-2015, 09:44 AM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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But keep in mind those transformations.

Gul'dan transformed an orc into a shivarra. That's the form he wanted, and that's the form he gave her. But we don't know if it was a temporary or permament transformation...

Sargy transformed the saytr into the form that he wanted. He corrupted their form with his magics.

Dragons do the same thing. They transform their bodies into whatever shape they want. Nothing saying that only dragons can learn this magic.

We know that Gul'dan has been transforming orcs into demons.

Now we do know that other demons existed prior to the BL. We know that the Titans used demons to hunt down magic and those demons look exactly the same as they are now despite being around all of that fel.

And lastly, orcs, like dragons, seem to have a DNA that is extremely rewritable.
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Old 04-26-2015, 09:52 AM
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But we don't know if it was a temporary or permament transformation...
I'd say permanent, considering that she was a shivarra in the MU too.
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  #62  
Old 04-26-2015, 09:55 AM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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I'd say permanent, considering that she was a shivarra in the MU too.
I think that in her case, it was a call back to her BC self where she evidently learned how to transform herself into another demon species.

But once you kill her, doesn't she change back into her orc form?
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Old 04-26-2015, 09:58 AM
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I think that in her case, it was a call back to her BC self where she evidently learned how to transform herself into another demon species.

But once you kill her, doesn't she change back into her orc form?
Hmm, I think she stays a shivarra. It's more like she learned how to conceal her new nature, so she could start/continue leading her orclings and corrupt them, which led to them being warlocks when we arrived.
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  #64  
Old 04-26-2015, 10:05 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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I feel like y'all are assuming too many things and are trying to make it canon.
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  #65  
Old 04-26-2015, 10:05 AM
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I haven't played WoD, who are we talking about?
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  #66  
Old 04-26-2015, 10:06 AM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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I suspect that they were corrupted long before we got there.

They were members of the Kil'sorrow Clan who were already agents of the Shadow Council and worked for the Burning Legion.

Giselda always wanted to be beautiful, so she chose the form of the most "beautiful" species of demon.

Shivarra
Species: Shivarra
Affiliation: Burning Legion
Function: Priestesses, Military Chaplains
Devout and exceedingly charismatic, these priestesses live only to evangelize the power of Sargeras' dread vision.
They are the driving heart of the Burning Crusade.

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http://wow.gamepedia.com/Giselda_the_Crone
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  #67  
Old 04-26-2015, 10:10 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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But she also changed her name to the Crone though, or someone did.
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Old 04-26-2015, 10:13 AM
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But she also changed her name to the Crone though, or someone did.
Exactly. That's why I think that she was disguising herself as an orc, which she'd been in her youth. If she had learned how to turn into a shivarra out of vanity, would she have kept it a secret and still allowed her followers to call her "the crone?"
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Old 04-26-2015, 10:31 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Exactly. That's why I think that she was disguising herself as an orc, which she'd been in her youth. If she had learned how to turn into a shivarra out of vanity, would she have kept it a secret and still allowed her followers to call her "the crone?"
Start over. What are you people trying to argue?
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Old 04-26-2015, 10:35 AM
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Thanks.

Frankly turning into demons that aren't one's own species still strikes me as silly.
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Old 04-26-2015, 10:49 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Thanks.

Frankly turning into demons that aren't one's own species still strikes me as silly.
Why? It's the same thing as Worgen.
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  #72  
Old 04-26-2015, 10:53 AM
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Why? It's the same thing as Worgen.
Worgen are a druid form. A human can't turn into a night elf, yet.

@Your previous post: I say that Giselda was permanently transformed and then learned how to disguise herself. Tackle Maki says that she can probably only transform herself temporarily.
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Old 04-26-2015, 10:58 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Worgen are a druid form. A human can't turn into a night elf, yet.

@Your previous post: I say that Giselda was permanently transformed and then learned how to disguise herself. Tackle Maki says that she can probably only transform herself temporarily.
The point is that despite being explained as a curse, Worgen are referred to as a race. That they form a culture despite being cursed people. Demons could be that as well, along with being a species. We don't know about the demons or their origins.

I might agree with you.
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  #74  
Old 04-26-2015, 11:05 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Worgen are a playable race that Blizzard treats more like a sub-race for some reason.

Also transformations in-game are weird to me. Where the fuck did Dragonmaw orcs learn how to turn into Drakonid?
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Old 04-26-2015, 11:05 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Why? It's the same thing as Worgen.
In my opinion worgen were handled badly too.
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