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  #26  
Old 07-12-2016, 10:34 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Garrosh's involvement in Gilneas basically constituted turning it into a joint Horde offensive when the wall got breached by the Cataclysm. Based on Curse of the Worgen, the Forsaken had already been trying unsuccessfully to get into Gilneas ever since they took over Silverpine (via Vanilla-era questing), basically replacing the Scourge that were previously battering at the gates with their own army doing the same.
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  #27  
Old 07-12-2016, 10:34 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Technically it was both, I don't entirely rule out the Garrosh bit but I still don't doubt the Forsaken would have invaded it anyway to secure their borders.

Mostly due to this reading from a blue post here:

http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...postcount=7479

They kinda failed to conquer it and Cataclysm gave the notion that it was still under Alliance control, but later on retcons made by the writers from WoW Insider changed it to being plagued and ultimately a victory for Forsaken.

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Garrosh's involvement in Gilneas basically constituted turning it into a joint Horde offensive when the wall got breached by the Cataclysm. Based on Curse of the Worgen, the Forsaken had already been trying to get into Gilneas ever since they took over Silverpine (via Vanilla-era questing), basically replacing the Scourge that were previously battering at the gates with their own army.
This as well.
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  #28  
Old 07-12-2016, 01:02 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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The Horde is so fucked up right now that without Sylvanas it would be the worst and weakest Warcraft faction.

I bet the Blood Elves would even pull a Shal'dorei/Shaohao and hide Quel'Thalas from everything.
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  #29  
Old 07-12-2016, 02:29 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
The Horde is so fucked up right now that without Sylvanas it would be the worst and weakest Warcraft faction.

I bet the Blood Elves would even pull a Shal'dorei/Shaohao and hide Quel'Thalas from everything.
You know, just destroy Kalimdor and Draenor, then you can focus on the important continent. Alliance of humans and lil'-humans versus the Horde of elves and dead-elves.
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  #30  
Old 07-12-2016, 03:54 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
The Horde is so fucked up right now that without Sylvanas it would be the worst and weakest Warcraft faction.

I bet the Blood Elves would even pull a Shal'dorei/Shaohao and hide Quel'Thalas from everything.
This is a thread about whether Sylvanas is qualified to lead the Horde based purely off her merit as a military leader.

Please stop sperging out over the fact that your waifu is being criticized and take your butthurt elsewhere.
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  #31  
Old 07-12-2016, 04:25 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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uniting the newly-freed masses of Lordaeron.
reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

(but I agree with the substance of your post)
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  #32  
Old 07-12-2016, 04:30 PM
Arashi Arashi is offline

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Why does this thread even exist?
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  #33  
Old 07-12-2016, 04:36 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Frostwolf View Post
This is a thread about whether Sylvanas is qualified to lead the Horde based purely off her merit as a military leader.

Please stop sperging out over the fact that your waifu is being criticized and take your butthurt elsewhere.
Well,

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but is she truly the most qualified person in the Horde to be Warchief? Discounting whatever Vol'jin may or may not "see" in her, disregarding any sort of "hidden potential" she might have, is she the most qualified character to be Warchief based purely on her military history?
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>saying Sylvanas is the Horde's only capable leader


shush bby, u can l2read stop crying now.

EDIT: also, she is resourceful. I mean, she probably had the RAS "study" Koltira while he was kidnapped, she has shards of Frostmourne within her possession and she has the Val'kyrs. There's only one person more resourceful than her in the horde, and that's Gallywix.
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  #34  
Old 07-12-2016, 04:44 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Originally Posted by Arashi View Post
Why does this thread even exist?
Why are you posting in this thread, if you don't care about it?

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reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

(but I agree with the substance of your post)
Freed from the LK's mind control but enslaved to the will of the Banshee Queen...

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Well,

shush bby, u can l2read stop crying now.
You're not making any sense. You quoted your own shitpost. I'm going to write you off now.
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  #35  
Old 07-12-2016, 04:46 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Sorry, I don't really busy myself with retroactively reading every post by some random no-name sperg.
The butthurt is showing.

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You're not making any sense. You quoted your own shitpost. I'm going to write you off now.
Had to translate it for you.
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  #36  
Old 07-12-2016, 05:00 PM
Veryyawn Veryyawn is offline

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How many hundreds or thousands of years old is she? The king she was serving as the head of his military was over 3000 years old.
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  #37  
Old 07-12-2016, 05:05 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arashi View Post
Why does this thread even exist?
I've forgotten what Warcraft-based arguing feels like, so this helps
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  #38  
Old 07-12-2016, 05:21 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Veryyawn View Post
How many hundreds or thousands of years old is she? The king she was serving as the head of his military was over 3000 years old.
Wasn't Alleria the Ranger-General before her?
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #39  
Old 07-12-2016, 05:31 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Everyone makes mistakes but she secured Lordaeron for the Horde by wiping out a lot of resistance groups. The biggest mistake she did was to put herself on the front line and by the time of Andorhal we see she got more cautious. In Legion it's not like she has much of a choice... Chemical warfare isn't cheating. It's war dammit, there are no rules. Combine this with the blood elves in the north and the Horde has a huge advantage in Lordaeron. The Alliance won't get it anytime soon.

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How many hundreds or thousands of years old is she? The king she was serving as the head of his military was over 3000 years old.
Are you calling Alleria a pedo?
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  #40  
Old 07-12-2016, 05:56 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Wasn't Alleria the Ranger-General before her?
Alleria has never been described as a ranger-general. Sylvanas is the only known ranger-general in lore, serving from earlier than the Second War.

Alleria was described as serving in the Troll War (which would make her age comparable to Anasterian's), but this is old lore and will probably be changed if Blizzard ever broaches the subject again. Sylvanas' age is unknown except that she is older than Vereesa but younger than Alleria. Nothing is known of Sylvanas's life or military experiences before being ranger-general during the Second War.

(Because Blizzard is really bad at backstory.)
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  #41  
Old 07-12-2016, 06:01 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Alleria has never been described as a ranger-general. Sylvanas is the only known ranger-general in lore, serving from earlier than the Second War.

Alleria was described as serving in the Troll War (which would make her age comparable to Anasterian's), but this is old lore and will probably be changed if Blizzard ever broaches the subject again. Sylvanas' age is unknown except that she is older than Vereesa but younger than Alleria. Nothing is known of Sylvanas's life or military experiences before being ranger-general during the Second War.

(Because Blizzard is really bad at backstory.)
Is a backstory really necessary? Other than some family interaction I don't see what we'd need. Most of her career as ranger probably amounted to uneventful scouting and troll raids. Her romantic life is non-existent. She doesn't seem to share the human fetish her sisters have. At least not as openly... You think Nathanos was summoned for some late night appointments?

Last edited by SmokeBlader; 07-12-2016 at 06:04 PM..
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  #42  
Old 07-12-2016, 06:10 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
Is a backstory really necessary? Other than some family interaction I don't see what we'd need. Most of her career as ranger probably amounted to uneventful scouting and troll raids. Her romantic life is non-existent. She doesn't seem to share the human fetish her sisters have. At least not as openly... You think Nathanos was summoned for some late night appointments?
Medivh has early childhood stories, a few of them, that give insight to his character. Orgrim Doomhammer has different, conflicting stories of his youth and young days of service. We will follow Thrall's life from his mom's pregnancy to his grave.

With Sylvanas, we don't know what century she was born. What distinguished her to reach the highest military position among her people?
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  #43  
Old 07-12-2016, 06:21 PM
Veryyawn Veryyawn is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Alleria was described as serving in the Troll War (which would make her age comparable to Anasterian's), but this is old lore and will probably be changed if Blizzard ever broaches the subject again. Sylvanas' age is unknown except that she is older than Vereesa but younger than Alleria. Nothing is known of Sylvanas's life or military experiences before being ranger-general during the Second War.
If Sylvanas was born around the time of Alleria, that would make her 3000+ years old right? That's a bit of experience to put on the ol' "Warchief Job Application".
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  #44  
Old 07-12-2016, 06:28 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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If Sylvanas was born around the time of Alleria, that would make her 3000+ years old right? That's a bit of experience to put on the ol' "Warchief Job Application".
Sure, but

1) We have no indication Sylvanas is anywhere near as old as Alleria.

2) Blizzard will probably tell us that Alleria is not so old, and that her Troll War was probably not THE Troll War. The only reference we have to her in the Troll War is the Warcraft Encyclopedia, written 2006, and it probably was talking about the pre-Portal troll conflicts described at the beginning of Day of the Dragon.
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  #45  
Old 07-12-2016, 08:28 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veryyawn View Post
If Sylvanas was born around the time of Alleria, that would make her 3000+ years old right? That's a bit of experience to put on the ol' "Warchief Job Application".
If all you've done for 3,000 years is fight scattered bandit raids, you really aren't any more qualified to lead an army than a guy who has been fighting bandit raids for 10 years.

If living a long time made you a military genius, high elves would not have needed the help of humans during the Troll Wars. Night elves wouldn't have needed the assistance of a demigod to fight an orc clan. So on and so forth.
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  #46  
Old 07-12-2016, 08:38 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Someone in the big Legion Beta Thread said that Nathanos and Sylvanas had a thing when alive.
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  #47  
Old 07-12-2016, 09:04 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Someone in the big Legion Beta Thread said that Nathanos and Sylvanas had a thing when alive.
Nobody knows it's just weird fan shit
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  #48  
Old 07-12-2016, 09:18 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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their talk during the demon attack at Vol'jin's funeral is kinda medieval-flirty and Nathanos kinda talked about her when she came to him as a messiah but thats it afaik.

I'd love for Frostwolf to start rolling out suggestions of more capable leaders though.
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  #49  
Old 07-12-2016, 09:19 PM
Tilgath Tilgath is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
They kinda failed to conquer it and Cataclysm gave the notion that it was still under Alliance control, but later on retcons made by the writers from WoW Insider changed it to being plagued and ultimately a victory for Forsaken.
How were writers from WoW Insider involved in changing the story?
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  #50  
Old 07-12-2016, 09:38 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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WoW Visual Guide made the guy in charge of Gilneas defense surrender Gilneas for her daughter. The plague bombed abandoned ruin part is from WoW though.
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