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Old 03-28-2014, 02:42 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Default As Of MOP, Horde has no reason to fight the Alliance

By Mists Of Pandaria, the Horde's greatest enemy is itself. The Horde has been more oppressed by itself by anything else at this point, and it looks Warlords of Draenor will continue to make the Horde's greatest enemy...the Horde. Basically every single orc in MOP was portrayed as Evil or villainous except Thrall, Saurfang, and Eitrigg. Yay...only three out of the entire race.

Meanwhile Alliance had virtually no morally dubious characters for the Horde to want to oppose, even the ones they did have disappeared or became generically good.

For all everyone's claims of Blizzard favoring the Horde, they sure made them look bad. And gave positively them absolutely no reason to hate the Alliance.

You know what, if the worgen be what they were promised, wild beasts who weren't afraid to get their hands and do dirty deeds, not only would this have helped the Worgen have an actual identity, but it'd give the Horde an actual reason to oppose the Alliance.

Last edited by JorgeAxe; 03-28-2014 at 02:54 PM..
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:51 PM
Mark_Romaneck Mark_Romaneck is offline

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sylvanas will find a way
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:53 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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This thread contributes a lot and the forums are better for its existence.
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:54 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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sylvanas will find a way
She already has.

Gilneas is in Lordaeron.

Lordaeron belongs to the Forsaken, now and forever.
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:57 PM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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Originally Posted by JorgeAxe View Post
By Mists Of Pandaria, the Horde's greatest enemy is itself. The Horde has been more oppressed by itself by anything else at this point, and it looks Warlords of Draenor will continue to make the Horde's greatest enemy...the Horde. Basically every single orc in MOP was portrayed as Evil or villainous except Thrall, Saurfang, and Eitrigg. Yay...only three out of the entire race.

Meanwhile Alliance had virtually no morally dubious characters for the Horde to want to oppose, even the ones they did have disappeared or became generically good.

For all everyone's claims of Blizzard favoring the Horde, they sure made them look bad. And gave positively them absolutely no reason to hate the Alliance.

You know what, if the worgen be what they were promised, wild beasts who weren't afraid to get their hands and do dirty deeds, not only would this have helped the Worgen have an actual identity, but it'd give the Horde an actual reason to oppose the Alliance.
*Standing at the top of Mount Everest, the farthest peak in the world, he can hear the chanting of thousands of Horde Players calling out with a desire for blood, death, and torture, the name of one woman... Jaina Proudmoore.*
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:25 PM
Insipid_Lobster Insipid_Lobster is offline

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*Standing at the top of Mount Everest, the farthest peak in the world, he can hear the chanting of thousands of Horde Players calling out with a desire for blood, death, and torture, the name of one woman... Jaina Proudmoore.*

<A sharp gust of wind carries a voice "remember Taurajo!" it whines.>
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:53 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Originally Posted by Vexander View Post
*Standing at the top of Mount Everest, the farthest peak in the world, he can hear the chanting of thousands of Horde Players calling out with a desire for blood, death, and torture, the name of one woman... Jaina Proudmoore.*
Actually most Horde players invested in the story feel the destruction of Theramore was intensely out of character for the Horde, and feel its been totally demonized for no reason.

Last edited by JorgeAxe; 03-28-2014 at 04:00 PM..
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Old 03-28-2014, 04:02 PM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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Actually most Horde players invested in the story feel the destruction of Theramore was intensely out of character for the Horde, and feel its been totally demonized for no reason.
Yes, but that doesn't mean they don't feel like Jaina needs to die due to the Purge of Dalaran and her comments in the ending cinematic for the Siege of Orgrimmar.
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Old 03-28-2014, 04:06 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I need to be liberated by the Alliance. Save me from the Horde's oppression!
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Old 03-28-2014, 04:24 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Yes, but that doesn't mean they don't feel like Jaina needs to die due to the Purge of Dalaran and her comments in the ending cinematic for the Siege of Orgrimmar.
Actually most Horde players invested in the story aren't saying that. All I've seen are a few Blood elf players.

Most of them were disgusted with how out of character the Horde was in the whole destruction of theramore, and annoyed with the Alliance losing all their flaws and morally dubious characters without explanation.

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I need to be liberated by Good Writers. Save me from the Kosak's oppression!
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Old 03-28-2014, 04:39 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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I need to be liberated by the Alliance. Save me from the Horde's oppression!
Repent then, heathen!
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Old 03-28-2014, 05:26 PM
Insipid_Lobster Insipid_Lobster is offline

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Originally Posted by JorgeAxe View Post
By Mists Of Pandaria, the Horde's greatest enemy is itself. The Horde has been more oppressed by itself by anything else at this point, and it looks Warlords of Draenor will continue to make the Horde's greatest enemy...the Horde. Basically every single orc in MOP was portrayed as Evil or villainous except Thrall, Saurfang, and Eitrigg. Yay...only three out of the entire race.
Blizzard have really shot themselves in the foot as far as the orcs are concerned, given how they failed to learn from the first and second war, are Blizzard even going to let them learn from Garrosh's? I... doubt it, I have a feeling that the entire "we sided with the rebellion, we're not like Garrosh" will be all that we're getting. The orcs will go on naming their cities, towns and outposts after their "heroes" and will continue to feel oppressed and beaten by the Alliance, for... reasons. Cue Garrosh 2: Electric Boogaloo. The orcs really need to progress as a people, not just Thrall. If this plot cycle continues then it will paint them as complete and utter idiots and the rest of the Horde as idiots for putting up with it and allowing them any degree of power beyond owning a boar farm. Then again, this could be what WoD will be about: the orcs learn that they have always been rather shitty and set out to find a less war-like culture that will profit them and the Horde rather than damage it by being slapped on the wrist by the Alliance.

I know and understand that an MMO isn't the greatest platform to tell a story but... I'm becoming increasingly annoyed by the orcish focus -- which shouldn't even happen in the first place but that's a rant for another time -- when the progression that takes place is forgotten as soon as one of them gets a sharp axe in their hand.
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Old 03-28-2014, 05:39 PM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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Blizzard have really shot themselves in the foot as far as the orcs are concerned, given how they failed to learn from the first and second war, are Blizzard even going to let them learn from Garrosh's? I... doubt it, I have a feeling that the entire "we sided with the rebellion, we're not like Garrosh" will be all that we're getting. The orcs will go on naming their cities, towns and outposts after their "heroes" and will continue to feel oppressed and beaten by the Alliance, for... reasons. Cue Garrosh 2: Electric Boogaloo. The orcs really need to progress as a people, not just Thrall. If this plot cycle continues then it will paint them as complete and utter idiots and the rest of the Horde as idiots for putting up with it and allowing them any degree of power beyond owning a boar farm. Then again, this could be what WoD will be about: the orcs learn that they have always been rather shitty and set out to find a less war-like culture that will profit them and the Horde rather than damage it by being slapped on the wrist by the Alliance.

I know and understand that an MMO isn't the greatest platform to tell a story but... I'm becoming increasingly annoyed by the orcish focus -- which shouldn't even happen in the first place but that's a rant for another time -- when the progression that takes place is forgotten as soon as one of them gets a sharp axe in their hand.
In before the next major Orc fortress or city in some expansion is named, "Garroshanar."
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Old 03-28-2014, 05:46 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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The reason for Bladefist bay and the like, was Blizzard retcons not being at all consistent on Kargath's personality.

As for Warlords Of Draenor, we've already seen they retcon many of the orc characters sympathetic traits away, so needless to say it'll suck.
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Old 03-28-2014, 05:49 PM
Insipid_Lobster Insipid_Lobster is offline

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In before the next major Orc fortress or city in some expansion is named, "Garroshanar."
Razor Hill burns down in a tragic fire, the orcs weep and curse their harsh climate. If it wasn't for the wretched humans and night elves, they could live happily in Ashenvale! It's their fault they're here! They then build a giant iron fortress to scheme against the night elves from. New Garrosh'ar, with drake wing curtains and skull sconces.

Meanwhile, the trolls, tauren and blood elves who have no reason to fight the Alliance as a whole and nothing to gain from it, simply nod and smile while standing behind the orcs. "W-we're with t-the green guys!".
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:30 PM
Melorandor Melorandor is offline

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Razor Hill burns down in a tragic fire, the orcs weep and curse their harsh climate. If it wasn't for the wretched humans and night elves, they could live happily in Ashenvale! It's their fault they're here! They then build a giant iron fortress to scheme against the night elves from. New Garrosh'ar, with drake wing curtains and skull sconces.

Meanwhile, the trolls, tauren and blood elves who have no reason to fight the Alliance as a whole and nothing to gain from it, simply nod and smile while standing behind the orcs. "W-we're with t-the green guys!".
Or they can just find a way to irrigate the over flooded Southfury river and with help from Druids grow crops with some odd common sense baseball bat hitting each and every Orc in the head where they don't give a shit about Ashenvale anymore.
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:41 PM
Insipid_Lobster Insipid_Lobster is offline

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Or they can just find a way to irrigate the over flooded Southfury river and with help from Druids grow crops with some odd common sense baseball bat hitting each and every Orc in the head where they don't give a shit about Ashenvale anymore.
You make too much sense for this here Horde, yer' one of those Alliance folks ain't yer? With yer oppression, we don't appreciate your kind round these parts. <Readies the blunderbuss.>

Jokes aside, yeah, the orcs don't really have any reason why they can't work Durotar any more. It would be something neat that could be done, but I very much doubt we'll ever get a revamped zone again unless it's Org or SW.
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:46 PM
Vexander Vexander is offline

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You make too much sense for this here Horde, yer' one of those Alliance folks ain't yer? With yer oppression, we don't appreciate your kind round these parts. <Readies the blunderbuss.>

Jokes aside, yeah, the orcs don't really have any reason why they can't work Durotar any more. It would be something neat that could be done, but I very much doubt we'll ever get a revamped zone again unless it's Org or SW.
Well, the Southfury has been polluted, and who knows how long that'll take to clean up? Supposedly the pollution only makes the water bad for drinking, though it should still be good for farming. Regardless, their best option is to clean the river.
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:50 PM
Melorandor Melorandor is offline

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Well, the Southfury has been polluted, and who knows how long that'll take to clean up? Supposedly the pollution only makes the water bad for drinking, though it should still be good for farming. Regardless, their best option is to clean the river.
Nothing like a good ol' Shaman and Druid( maybe a Earthen ring and Cenarion team up) working pair wouldn't hurt the Southfury river.
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Old 03-28-2014, 06:59 PM
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To be honest, the Horde never had a good reason to fight the Alliance. That's been the truth since Warcraft II and it's the truth now.

You don't get to kill someone and steal their house just because you burned yours down and have to walk on the broken glass and splintered wood of its remains.
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:04 PM
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To be honest, the Horde never had a good reason to fight the Alliance. That's been the truth since Warcraft II and it's the truth now.
Not really. Warcraft II did not provide the explanation that we have now. The orcs were simply conquering lands.

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You don't get to kill someone and steal their house just because you burned yours down and have to walk on the broken glass and splintered wood of its remains.
Sounds like the founding Quel'thalas.
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:09 PM
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Sounds like the founding Quel'thalas.
Or the Human kingdoms, save for the fact their house burning down was caused by the Curse of Flesh.

But yeah, the Horde fighting the Alliance was never made particularly compelling or at all thought out, which makes it particularly perplexing when you get to the temple of the White Tiger to find that apparently, Varian is the thing in the world my PC hates most, despite having never interacted with the guy, and having never been given any reason I should even know who he is.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:58 PM
Kynrind Kynrind is offline

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Blizzard have really shot themselves in the foot as far as the orcs are concerned, given how they failed to learn from the first and second war, are Blizzard even going to let them learn from Garrosh's? I... doubt it, I have a feeling that the entire "we sided with the rebellion, we're not like Garrosh" will be all that we're getting. The orcs will go on naming their cities, towns and outposts after their "heroes" and will continue to feel oppressed and beaten by the Alliance, for... reasons. Cue Garrosh 2: Electric Boogaloo. The orcs really need to progress as a people, not just Thrall. If this plot cycle continues then it will paint them as complete and utter idiots and the rest of the Horde as idiots for putting up with it and allowing them any degree of power beyond owning a boar farm. Then again, this could be what WoD will be about: the orcs learn that they have always been rather shitty and set out to find a less war-like culture that will profit them and the Horde rather than damage it by being slapped on the wrist by the Alliance.

I know and understand that an MMO isn't the greatest platform to tell a story but... I'm becoming increasingly annoyed by the orcish focus -- which shouldn't even happen in the first place but that's a rant for another time -- when the progression that takes place is forgotten as soon as one of them gets a sharp axe in their hand.
Excellent post.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:36 PM
Valtheria Valtheria is offline

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Not really. Warcraft II did not provide the explanation that we have now. The orcs were simply conquering lands.

Sounds like the founding Quel'thalas.
I was mostly referring to the current Second War lore.

As for Quel'Thalas, it sure does.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, or that the orcs are more wrong than the humans or high elves. I'm saying that it's pretty wrong no matter who does it. It can be done, sometimes has to be done, but it's not a "good", "just" reason in my eyes.

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But yeah, the Horde fighting the Alliance was never made particularly compelling or at all thought out, which makes it particularly perplexing when you get to the temple of the White Tiger to find that apparently, Varian is the thing in the world my PC hates most, despite having never interacted with the guy, and having never been given any reason I should even know who he is.
Would have been fantastic if, for death knights, your hatred turned into Arthas. Just saying.
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:00 PM
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