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  #11651  
Old 03-03-2019, 09:30 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Commies are dumb as dirt. They're very, very good at repeating talking points perpetuated by certain groups.
Well one of the people responding is very adamant they're not communists, they're, from what I can tell, just looking for an ideologically pure candidate. Which is impractical to say the least.
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  #11652  
Old 03-03-2019, 09:39 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Well one of the people responding is very adamant they're not communists, they're, from what I can tell, just looking for an ideologically pure candidate. Which is impractical to say the least.
"Ackshually, I'm not a communist, I'm a 3rd wave Soviet Maoist with a green belt in Marxism."
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  #11653  
Old 03-04-2019, 08:15 AM
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It was only covered by far-right reactionary """news""" sites because that story isn't really newsworthy. It only becomes newsworthy when you can twist it to push your agenda.
So, here's a perfect counter to that. You have this big story going around, CNN even covered it, about woman being charged for leaving food and water for migrants. That's the head line, the reaction is them being charged for leaving food and water, etc.

Except, that's not what happened. They were not charged for leaving food and water. They illegally entered a wildlife Preserve, drove around, left food, water, personal property in the middle of the desert, and THAT's why they were charged.

Nothing to do with refugees, and not even news. It's a story being twisted to push peoples agenda.

Leftwing world.
Rightwing world.
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  #11654  
Old 03-12-2019, 04:47 PM
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  #11655  
Old 03-13-2019, 10:24 PM
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https://kotaku.com/the-makers-of-mag...1833274912/amp

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“After we won, I was not happy,” she wrote in a blog post for Magic community conclave Channel Fireball four months later. “I spent days having panic attacks and feeling terrified whenever a notification popped up on my phone. I turned my phone off to try and concentrate on work. I begged friends to stop showing me the hateful comments. I closed my DMs on Twitter and unfollowed people to revoke messaging privileges...I was called fat and ugly, with many iterations of both. I was told I didn’t deserve the attention and the win because I wasn’t a photogenic physical ideal. In other words, screw the hard work I’d put in—I wasn’t pretty enough to be good at a game I loved.”

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“The thing is, the vast majority of the Magic community shares the same ideals that Wizards of the Coast does. The vast majority of the community is awesome, and welcoming, and supportive,” says Chase. “When you move things out to the internet, when you have a community as large as Magic, you’re never going to get 100 percent of people that all believe the same thing. The problem with harassment is that it only takes a couple hundred.”
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  #11656  
Old 03-14-2019, 04:14 PM
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #11657  
Old 03-14-2019, 10:24 PM
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The world is ENDING.
Eh?
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  #11658  
Old 03-15-2019, 08:08 PM
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Eh?
Wizards of the Coast is caving to the tyrannical demands of radical feminism by making such a statement and so forth.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #11659  
Old 03-15-2019, 09:26 PM
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Wizards of the Coast is caving to the tyrannical demands of radical feminism by making such a statement and so forth.
I think it's a very healthy attempt to broaden the market tbh

Plus every magic/comicbook shop I've gone to in San Antonio (so like, four of them admittedly) has had a good mix of guys and girls so hey, maybe it's working.
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  #11660  
Old 03-16-2019, 02:08 PM
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The anti SJW crowd is a very vocal (on the internet) minority. And they're present in pretty much any online space for "nerdy" stuff. Sadly, D&D is no exception. The talking points are so predictable "SJWs who don't even play just want to ruin our fun." Meanwhile, the actual companies involved understand that diversity and representation sell and opening your hobby to a wider variety of people can only be good for business and public relations.
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.
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  #11661  
Old 03-17-2019, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
The anti SJW crowd is a very vocal (on the internet) minority. And they're present in pretty much any online space for "nerdy" stuff. Sadly, D&D is no exception. The talking points are so predictable "SJWs who don't even play just want to ruin our fun." Meanwhile, the actual companies involved understand that diversity and representation sell and opening your hobby to a wider variety of people can only be good for business and public relations.
Diversity and representation isn't the same as SJW.

Sadly, the anti-SJW crowd is just as rabid as the SJW crowd with their horse shit.

On the other hand, companies have a very bad problem with..... lets say.... uhh.. being very gimmicky with representation.

Blizzard and Overwatch is a good example with Soldier 76 being gay. It doesn't matter, its a game with no story, and it literally doesn't matter. So, sure, say it... It literally doesn't matter either way so it's just there.

Saying he's straight is the same thing. It literally doesn't matter.

But I mean, big boobs and hot women don't matter either. Sex sells. That isn't bad.
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  #11662  
Old 03-17-2019, 12:27 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Diversity and representation isn't the same as SJW.

Sadly, the anti-SJW crowd is just as rabid as the SJW crowd with their horse shit.

On the other hand, companies have a very bad problem with..... lets say.... uhh.. being very gimmicky with representation.

Blizzard and Overwatch is a good example with Soldier 76 being gay. It doesn't matter, its a game with no story, and it literally doesn't matter. So, sure, say it... It literally doesn't matter either way so it's just there.

Saying he's straight is the same thing. It literally doesn't matter.

But I mean, big boobs and hot women don't matter either. Sex sells. That isn't bad.
Eh, nothing new. Companies have been doing hilarious ham-fisted attempts to appeal to modern sensibilities for a long time. Whatever sells.
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  #11663  
Old 03-17-2019, 01:51 PM
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Diversity and representation isn't the same as SJW.

Sadly, the anti-SJW crowd is just as rabid as the SJW crowd with their horse shit.

On the other hand, companies have a very bad problem with..... lets say.... uhh.. being very gimmicky with representation.

Blizzard and Overwatch is a good example with Soldier 76 being gay. It doesn't matter, its a game with no story, and it literally doesn't matter. So, sure, say it... It literally doesn't matter either way so it's just there.

Saying he's straight is the same thing. It literally doesn't matter.

But I mean, big boobs and hot women don't matter either. Sex sells. That isn't bad.
When people say "SJWs ruined/are ruining X", they absolutely mean the people who want to see more diversity and representation in the media. Plenty of examples just in this thread. And saying "I'm fine with diversity as long as it doesn't fuck with the story" or whatever is such a cop out. Like no shit the quality is still important. Still, people will always find something wrong about it and blame it on "forcing diversity", especially if they go in looking to support this expectation.

And to your point about gimmicks: Define "bad problem" and define "gimmicky". I dunno what's being implied there. Because going with your example of Blizzard: They've been gimmicky as fuck with their storytelling long before they ever thought of putting a gay character in one of their games.
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.
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  #11664  
Old 03-17-2019, 08:26 PM
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When people say "SJWs ruined/are ruining X", they absolutely mean the people who want to see more diversity and representation in the media. Plenty of examples just in this thread. And saying "I'm fine with diversity as long as it doesn't fuck with the story" or whatever is such a cop out. Like no shit the quality is still important. Still, people will always find something wrong about it and blame it on "forcing diversity", especially if they go in looking to support this expectation.

And to your point about gimmicks: Define "bad problem" and define "gimmicky". I dunno what's being implied there. Because going with your example of Blizzard: They've been gimmicky as fuck with their storytelling long before they ever thought of putting a gay character in one of their games.
They really don't. The problem is, half the time, the diverse thing is forced. Using Marvel as an example, take some of the pages off of Angela. Or FemThor "Man's man" pages that were pretty hot for awhile. That's forced. It's cheesy. It's bad. And it ruins peoples interests in comics.

As for Blizzard, yes, they have absolutely always been gimmicky. But Soldier 76 was just a drop to distract from the abuse allegations they had at the time.

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Eh, nothing new. Companies have been doing hilarious ham-fisted attempts to appeal to modern sensibilities for a long time. Whatever sells.
I don't necessarily disagree. I just think it's a lot worse now because of Social Media and the echo chamber effects. For both sides. The anti SJW's get fed their opinions, the SJW's get fed their opinions, and everyone is permanently pissed off.
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  #11665  
Old 03-18-2019, 02:19 PM
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They really don't. The problem is, half the time, the diverse thing is forced. Using Marvel as an example, take some of the pages off of Angela. Or FemThor "Man's man" pages that were pretty hot for awhile. That's forced. It's cheesy. It's bad. And it ruins peoples interests in comics.

As for Blizzard, yes, they have absolutely always been gimmicky. But Soldier 76 was just a drop to distract from the abuse allegations they had at the time.
??? Do the anti-SJWs hate diversity or not? You contradict yourself in the first two sentences. Again, you seem to be saying the anti-SJW doesn't have a problem with diversity as long as it's not forced or cheesy. "Forced" and "cheesy" are not objective descriptors. Just because you didn't like something or your interest was ruined, doesn't make it so for everyone else. It's okay if you didn't like something - you don't have to support it, but at the same time, you have no reason to tear down what others are producing when it appeals to them besides petty gate-keeping. I just don't understand your assertions here, because they don't seem backed up by anything in reality. Just a lot of subjective and vague opinions that you still haven't really defined or even defended. I'm sorry, but "It was forced and bad" is not really a legitimate criticism by itself. It's a fine as a personal opinion, but its not a reason to tell someone they shouldn't make something.

You have any reputable source on the Blizzard thing, or is it just your speculation? It's the first time I've heard of any kind of abuse allegation.
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.

Last edited by Saranus; 03-18-2019 at 02:24 PM..
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  #11666  
Old 03-18-2019, 06:03 PM
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Ideally an SJW agenda should convey social justicey ideals without making the neutral consumer of media wonder whether they should feel under attack.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #11667  
Old 03-18-2019, 07:41 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Is "SJW agenda" the new "gay agenda?"
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  #11668  
Old 03-18-2019, 09:14 PM
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Ideally an SJW agenda should convey social justicey ideals without making the neutral consumer of media wonder whether they should feel under attack.
This is assuming the consumer is in fact neutral on the matter. As opposed to to be primed to be hostile toward social justice issues. It also bears mentioning that if you feel under attack by SJW issues (define pls), it's possible that's a personal issue and not the responsibility of the media you consume.

EDIT: Actually, on second thought, who is this nameless, faceless group of "neutrals" who need to be appeased before we can do anything? Fuck that shit. I don't think they really exist. They are a convenient strawman to shut down controversial or challenging discussion. Where is this army of furrowed-brow neutrality? It's just "enlightened centrism" by a different name. Here's another name for it: moral cowardice.
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.

Last edited by Saranus; 03-19-2019 at 10:37 AM..
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  #11669  
Old 03-19-2019, 02:47 PM
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This is assuming the consumer is in fact neutral on the matter. As opposed to to be primed to be hostile toward social justice issues. It also bears mentioning that if you feel under attack by SJW issues (define pls), it's possible that's a personal issue and not the responsibility of the media you consume.

EDIT: Actually, on second thought, who is this nameless, faceless group of "neutrals" who need to be appeased before we can do anything? Fuck that shit. I don't think they really exist. They are a convenient strawman to shut down controversial or challenging discussion. Where is this army of furrowed-brow neutrality? It's just "enlightened centrism" by a different name. Here's another name for it: moral cowardice.
I'm not saying you need to appease anyone. Just maybe don't say things like 'men are pigs' in such a way as to alienate even those men positively inclined toward feminism and so forth.

EDIT: And in a more general sense maybe try to focus on the positive aspects of a society where people relinquish the dated ideas you and I oppose, rather than relying on 'take that' moments where the plucky stand-in for nascent progressivism kicks in the shit of whichever slimy character has been created to serve as a stand-in for those dated ideals, which is cathartic but doesn't serve the purpose of rallying new people to the Cause.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.

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  #11670  
Old Yesterday, 07:45 AM
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I'm not saying you need to appease anyone. Just maybe don't say things like 'men are pigs' in such a way as to alienate even those men positively inclined toward feminism and so forth.

EDIT: And in a more general sense maybe try to focus on the positive aspects of a society where people relinquish the dated ideas you and I oppose, rather than relying on 'take that' moments where the plucky stand-in for nascent progressivism kicks in the shit of whichever slimy character has been created to serve as a stand-in for those dated ideals, which is cathartic but doesn't serve the purpose of rallying new people to the Cause.
First off, who is saying "men are pigs" in earnest that we should listen to? Sounds like a strawman. I'm sure you could dredge youtube for some example if you spent some time, but does the existence of such a thing really justify anti-feminism? I say no. If some random person saying "men are pigs" is enough to turn you off of feminism, I don't think you were much inclined toward it to begin with. Sorry, but I feel no need to acquiesce to the sensibilities of someone like that. Someone like that needs to spend some time in the real world away from their strawmen (eg. the triggered feminazi™ screaming "men are pigs!").

"Focus on the positive aspects of a society". This is fallacious for a couple reasons. First off, we can walk and chew gum at the same time, so the implicit binary of "focus on this instead of this" breaks down pretty much immediately. That is, we can and should absolutely focus on positive aspects while still having bandwidth to spend time addressing the lingering negative aspects that still affect many people. Second, it seems to imply that progressive media doesn't already focus on positive aspects of society. Like, pick any story in games, tv, movies from the last 10 years. You can bet your ass there are some lovely, heartwarming themes about family, friendship, kindness, generosity, heroism, struggle, sacrifice. Does controversy over Tracer being gay somehow nullify her saying "the world could always use more heroes" and saving people's lives? Does it somehow detract from her being heroic?

Point being, acquiescence will never be enough for these people. Their end goal is shutting down diversity. Don't buy into the false logic. It's sophistry and pedantry disguised as rational arguments. They put forward an air of neutrality when they say "I'm fine with it as long as it isn't thrown it in my face", but like clockwork, when a character is revealed as gay or gender queer or whatever, it's always "being shoved down our throats". See Soldier 76. It was an offhand line in a short story that the vast majority of the player-base will never even be aware of. It's not relevant to or even part of the actual game. But the mere revelation that soldier is gay qualifies as "shoving it down our throats" for some people, and has to come as the result of some sinister or greedy ulterior motive by Blizzard. These people will never be pleased, so I see no reason to try. Deconstruct their shit arguments for the audience and move on.
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.

Last edited by Saranus; Yesterday at 08:02 AM..
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  #11671  
Old Yesterday, 10:12 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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??? Do the anti-SJWs hate diversity or not? You contradict yourself in the first two sentences. Again, you seem to be saying the anti-SJW doesn't have a problem with diversity as long as it's not forced or cheesy. "Forced" and "cheesy" are not objective descriptors. Just because you didn't like something or your interest was ruined, doesn't make it so for everyone else. It's okay if you didn't like something - you don't have to support it, but at the same time, you have no reason to tear down what others are producing when it appeals to them besides petty gate-keeping. I just don't understand your assertions here, because they don't seem backed up by anything in reality. Just a lot of subjective and vague opinions that you still haven't really defined or even defended. I'm sorry, but "It was forced and bad" is not really a legitimate criticism by itself. It's a fine as a personal opinion, but its not a reason to tell someone they shouldn't make something.

You have any reputable source on the Blizzard thing, or is it just your speculation? It's the first time I've heard of any kind of abuse allegation.
I mean, but that's not true, right? This shit doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's like Wonder Woman throwing the Lasso of Truth around people and complaining about mansplaining.

The things mentioned, the things said, the things happening are extensions of real world pushes for "diversity" that are attacking certain groups. And instead of inclusivity, they spout racist and sexist rhetoric.

Even Miles Morales (I think it was Miles) getting the talk from someone about how it doesn't matter if this was a person helping you and a nice guy, etc, he was still an Old White Dude doing what Old White Dudes Do and taking advantage of you.

That's included into the "diversity" mix. "Well, we just aren't writing comics for you, we are writing to a diverse crowd!".

No, you are writing towards racists. And hiding behind diversity just protects you from criticism.

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It's just "enlightened centrism" by a different name. Here's another name for it: moral cowardice.
Yes, lets all become extremists. That's a grand plan.
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Old Yesterday, 06:54 PM
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but does the existence of such a thing really justify anti-feminism?
Well I certainly didn't suggest antifeminism.

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If some random person saying "men are pigs" is enough to turn you off of feminism, I don't think you were much inclined toward it to begin with.
I'm saying that if you want to gain allies instead of galvanize your base you should try not to antagonize the middle ground (the support of which is valuable regardless of whether they're naturally inclined to the moral high standard you desire).

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"Focus on the positive aspects of a society". This is fallacious for a couple reasons. First off, we can walk and chew gum at the same time, so the implicit binary of "focus on this instead of this" breaks down pretty much immediately. That is, we can and should absolutely focus on positive aspects while still having bandwidth to spend time addressing the lingering negative aspects that still affect many people.
To be sure, but painting broad strokes, again, serves at best to preach toward the choir and more likely drives away potential allies by presenting them with images of themselves that characterize them and people like them as cartoonish imbeciles.

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Does controversy over Tracer being gay somehow nullify her saying "the world could always use more heroes" and saving people's lives? Does it somehow detract from her being heroic?
Quite on the contrary. Indeed, this is the kind of representation I'm talking about. Incidental positivity. Here's a character who you might be inclined to like, and guess what, she's gay.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #11673  
Old Yesterday, 10:39 PM
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Even Miles Morales (I think it was Miles) getting the talk from someone about how it doesn't matter if this was a person helping you and a nice guy, etc, he was still an Old White Dude doing what Old White Dudes Do and taking advantage of you.
Context?
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  #11674  
Old Today, 09:34 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Context?
It was long enough ago I cant find it, but.... does it matter? I mean, it's still taking a sex and race and using it as a negative pejorative
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Old Today, 02:39 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
It was long enough ago I cant find it, but.... does it matter? I mean, it's still taking a sex and race and using it as a negative pejorative
Context is pretty key to why anything matters

I'm not saying you're lying but you could be remembering wrong or viewing it differently than the writer intended, etc
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