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  #76  
Old 12-17-2018, 03:05 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
Er... is there really that much of a difference?
Not that much from a narrative standpoint (although in general, their anti-Arcane stances established in the manual of Reign of Chaos went largerly unitilized when dealing with the humans and more importantly the blood elves), but there were some subtle changes to their background lore. Notably, the Reign of Chaos era Kaldorei were explicitly said in absolute terms to be all druids (all the men) or warriors (all the women), leaving no room for civilian populations and villages seen in The Frozen Throne, a thing that ultimately brought the night elves a step closer to the archetypal Alliance races from their original inception.
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  #77  
Old 12-17-2018, 03:27 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Eh, I can see them prioritizing different things in a foreign environment where they're hunting Illidan surrounded by undead.

The civilian thing... eh... it's such a small part of the campaign, and I can't imagine they didn't have SOME sort of civilian population. I mean they could all be warrior fisherwomen who need the boats.

I sort of wish at some point they had gone more into how the upbringing and rearing of night elven children went. Since they're immortal they'd probably have to have strict population controls, and no one ever mentions "parents" so I always assumed Night Elven children were raised by the community.
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  #78  
Old 12-18-2018, 01:20 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
Not that much from a narrative standpoint (although in general, their anti-Arcane stances established in the manual of Reign of Chaos went largerly unitilized when dealing with the humans and more importantly the blood elves), but there were some subtle changes to their background lore. Notably, the Reign of Chaos era Kaldorei were explicitly said in absolute terms to be all druids (all the men) or warriors (all the women), leaving no room for civilian populations and villages seen in The Frozen Throne, a thing that ultimately brought the night elves a step closer to the archetypal Alliance races from their original inception.
I don't mean to challenge you. It is not unlikely that I simply forgot or didn't pay enough attention, but I can't recall it being explicitly stated that there were no night elf civilians in RoC. Would it be possible for you to state your source?
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  #79  
Old 12-18-2018, 02:29 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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The Art of Warcraft's lore section was very absolute in its wording that the men are the druids and the women are the warriors, leaving little space for anything else. Of course, like Aldrius alluded to, one could argue that warriors could be civilians, but that sort of logic is not really appliable for pre-modern warrior cultures which did not operate on the civilian-professional divide, but simply combatants (warrriors) vs. non-combatants.

Essentially, when I say that the night elves in Reign of Chaos had no civilian population, I mean they had no non-combatant population, as opposed to their later depictions and as opposed to the archetypal Alliance races (you could see plenty non-combatants for the humans and the high elves in Reign of Chaos).



On a slightly unrelated note, it was also the Art of Warcraft that explained Archimonde's ultimate goals during the Third War (and disloyalty towards Sargeras' own designs), only alluded to in the manual, something no longer even possible to be canon sadly.



There was also this nice artwork I do not remember seeing much elsewhere.

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Old 12-18-2018, 02:45 AM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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You have a copy of Art of Warcraft? Any other neat tidbits that could be reframe debate? Are Demon Hunters listed as an exception to the "men turn into bears women shoot arrows" rule?
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  #81  
Old 12-18-2018, 04:01 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Thank you very much, Marthen. I do not have access to the book, so it is no wonder I was not aware.
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  #82  
Old Today, 01:30 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Yet one more interesting thing

According to Staats' words in the diary, Metzen's original idea for the Forsaken was not that they were exactly undead, it was that they were recently plagued humans battling for survival. This immediately brought to my mind an old Forsaken concept done by Metzen where a Forsaken appeared less like a zombie or some sort of undead and more like a human infected with leprosy, with a mask and shreds of cloth hiding all his skin.



And recently, Staats confirmed on Twitter that Metzen indeed did not want them to be undead, but people infected with the Plague shunned by their society. Interestingly this even fits more with the originally given justification for the Forsaken joining the Horde; that the shaman (who at the time belonged solely to the Horde) could stop, even though not revert, the devastating effects of the Plague.



So, it seems more or less clear that originally (before The Frozen Throne solidified their backstory, to be exact), Metzen envisioned the Forsaken as humans with late stages of the Plague, but not dead yet, shunned by society similarly as to how lepers or victims of various plagues were shunned by society in the pre-modern times.

Edit: Now that I am thinking about this, it might be that this original concept had influenced the Broken later. Disconnected from the Light (I imagine the Plague doing that), shunned by their relatives, disfigured.

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