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  #16501  
Old 12-11-2016, 12:54 PM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
"There's no proof Watergate happened, it's just an unnamed source saying it did."
Please, we know it was Forrest Gump.
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  #16502  
Old 12-11-2016, 12:59 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
lol wtf

Well I'm glad that you've dropped the pretense and are now just openly admitting that you think that cities and those who reside in them are inherently "corrupt."

I don't really know what I can say to this since you're making a blanket assumption about an extremely large group of people aside from telling you that we don't hate you.

Then why have votes at all? After all, it isn't a democracy. Just skip the whole "people vote" bit and have the electors just say who's gonna be in charge for the next 4 years.
A republic is different than a democracy

Chicago is corrupt though. The politicians court the support of gang members. They have had several governors and politicians arrested. One governor tried to sell Obama's senate seat which was illegal. About 25% of the entire state's budget goes to public employee pensions so the state has higher taxes than it needs to and can't spend as much on important government functions. Chicago is a corrupt shit hole.

What make New York different than Idaho?

Because a democracy is mob rule and tyranny of the majority and a republic has restraints. You can't just try to change the parts of government that don't put the people you like in power. No one is going to let you change the rules to allow yourself to win more especially when it is so blatant. The Republican party could actually change all kinds of election rules because they own so many state legislatures and it would be legal but there would be a justifiable shit storm if they did that. Every state controlled by Republicans which is over 30 of them could change the rules for their federal elections to guarantee a win and it would give them a super majority.

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Unfortunately, that's just plain how the civilians in the Federal Government tend to be about such things. Stuff that home PC users have known about computer security for over ten years is like rocket science to them.

Because none of them want to give up the privilege of browsing their Classified files from their living rooms while they watch Netflix after a long day on Capitol Hill.

I'm half afraid we'll see a nuke get fired off by some random hackers in the next fifty years because some idiots decided it'd be a grand idea to install Bluetooth on the NORAD satellites so the President can send launch commands via text message from his iPhone.

For all their purported intelligence (hah!), our leaders come across as terrifyingly bad at using modern technology responsibly. Like, way worse than the average person. Which, given the responsibility of the average person on the internet, is a pretty scary thing.
This is why I got a letter from the Office of Personnel telling me my security clearance information was compromised. What are you going to do with my finger prints Vladmir Putin!
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  #16503  
Old 12-11-2016, 05:01 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
They provided proof for Watergate and had a Congressional investigation.
The entire USIC agrees that it was Russia doing the hacking. The RNC admitted they got hacked, but later went back on that statement. What more do you want?
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  #16504  
Old 12-11-2016, 05:03 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
The entire USIC agrees that it was Russia doing the hacking. The RNC admitted they got hacked, but later went back on that statement. What more do you want?
A non-biased source.
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  #16505  
Old 12-11-2016, 05:19 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
A non-biased source.
https://lmgtfy.com/?q=usic+russia+hack
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  #16506  
Old 12-11-2016, 05:24 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Maybe that's why sitting presidents shouldn't campaign for one side.
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  #16507  
Old 12-11-2016, 05:27 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
Maybe that's why sitting presidents shouldn't campaign for one side.
Because literally everyone who works for the government right now is in lock-step with everything Obama supports right now.
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  #16508  
Old 12-11-2016, 05:29 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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The Dangers of Echo Chambers on Campus

Curiously why would the election be determined by Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Ohio if the leak or the FBI was the reason why Clinton lost the election? Virginia, Colorado, New Hampshire, and Nevada are swing states. The American southwest became even more Democratic and not less. Are those states just inexplicable less concerned about email security malpractice or corruption? I don't think so. If Democrats continue to shut out dissenting voices and blame something else why wouldn't they continue to lose?
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  #16509  
Old 12-11-2016, 11:54 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coun...nformation_Act

By the by, this is why the fake news and Russia memes are happening
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  #16510  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:28 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coun...nformation_Act

By the by, this is why the fake news and Russia memes are happening
I don't even know what they meme by fake news and memes and I am sure most people don't. I think they are just looking for excuses to censor people that challenge or disagree with them because it hurts their feelings.
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  #16511  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:32 AM
Urth Urth is offline

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Whose feelings are hurt?

I'm sorry I'm not a more active participant in the thread, but it's a phrase I see used a lot.
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  #16512  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:37 AM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urth View Post
Whose feelings are hurt?

I'm sorry I'm not a more active participant in the thread, but it's a phrase I see used a lot.
If you'd only been a more active participant, you'd know that it was

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  #16513  
Old 12-12-2016, 07:46 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urth View Post
Whose feelings are hurt?

I'm sorry I'm not a more active participant in the thread, but it's a phrase I see used a lot.
Some politicians are talking about censoring 'fake' news. The government shouldn't be able to censor any kind of speech.
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  #16514  
Old 12-12-2016, 08:09 AM
Urth Urth is offline

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Tabloids aren't sold in the same place as newspapers.
That's my pat answer. I'm wise enough to know that an apples to oranges comparison only works in one dimension and from a specific perspective.

Now for my controversial answer: The Internet is bound for dramatic upheaval in how information is delivered, retrieved, and displayed. What I'm not saying is that I want premiums or censorship; what I AM saying is that all technology shifts and changes to best suit its society, and its society shifts and changes to suit its technology. It is NOSTALGIC to think the Internet will remain as the Internet currently exists.

Also, I don't think your answer and this discussion addressed anything about "feelings". Are we discussing politicians' feelings?

Last edited by Urth; 12-12-2016 at 08:14 AM..
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  #16515  
Old 12-12-2016, 08:13 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
Some politicians are talking about censoring 'fake' news. The government shouldn't be able to censor any kind of speech.
Their fake news is news they don't like. But real fake news comes from CNN, MSNBC, ect.
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  #16516  
Old 12-12-2016, 08:16 AM
Urth Urth is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mertico View Post
But real fake news comes from CNN, MSNBC, ect.
Could you please link me stories that you feel are fake from CNN and MSNBC?
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  #16517  
Old 12-12-2016, 08:37 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urth View Post
Tabloids aren't sold in the same place as newspapers.
That's my pat answer. I'm wise enough to know that an apples to oranges comparison only works in one dimension and from a specific perspective.

Now for my controversial answer: The Internet is bound for dramatic upheaval in how information is delivered, retrieved, and displayed. What I'm not saying is that I want premiums or censorship; what I AM saying is that all technology shifts and changes to best suit its society, and its society shifts and changes to suit its technology. It is NOSTALGIC to think the Internet will remain as the Internet currently exists.

Also, I don't think your answer and this discussion addressed anything about "feelings". Are we discussing politicians' feelings?
It is politicians feelings and the feelings of their followers. We don't enshrine the 1st Amendment the way we do so people can talk about the weather. Sometimes people need to hear things that make them uncomfortable or that they disagree with without fear of the government shutting them down or arresting them. Public education and a major news oligarchy shouldn't be the only sources of information. That is totalitarian and more fitting for George Orwell's Ministry of Truth than a society that prides itself on its freedoms.

Even fake news is minor and I don't think most people even gave it a second glance but it will be used as justification to censor more than that. The government had already censored a movie critical of Hillary Clinton but rejected an appeal to censor Fahrenheit 9/11 which was critical of Bush. That is what is going to be typical of government censors. It is too easy to justify why news the censors like is allowed and ones they don't is not. The fact that people are willing to believe even obviously fake news is a sign that people don't trust a specific politician. If that trust and rapport existed people wouldn't believe such nonsense. We shouldn't take a minor issue and use it to justify government action to create an even worse problem.
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  #16518  
Old 12-12-2016, 08:57 AM
Mertico Mertico is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urth View Post
Could you please link me stories that you feel are fake from CNN and MSNBC?
This works.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/12/politi...ion/index.html
http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/12/news...ges/index.html
http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/w...n-829648963964


This entire story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Alan_Kurdi
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  #16519  
Old 12-12-2016, 08:57 AM
Urth Urth is offline

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I misunderstood. I thought "feelings" referred to another bleeding heart liberal crack. I have a hard time imagining politicians as having feelings in the first place.

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
The fact that people are willing to believe even obviously fake news is a sign that people don't trust a specific politician.
That's absolutely fine that people don't trust politicians. I don't advocate blind trust in authority.

What I'm afraid of is the populace lacking the skills to sense bias and fiction. I admit my social media is rife with "liberal" fake news, but I'm intelligent enough to discern where the kernel of truth is, and how much is embellishment, editorial intent, and just plain smoke. I assume you can as well.

It's when people believe that millions of illegal voters are in California and that a pedophile ring operates out of a pizza joint that I have to hit the brakes and listen to where others aren't throttling their own thoughts.
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  #16520  
Old 12-12-2016, 09:06 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urth View Post
Could you please link me stories that you feel are fake from CNN and MSNBC?
I linked a video earlier from the 1990s from CNN where they werected faking a live Saudi Arabia broadcast
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  #16521  
Old 12-12-2016, 09:07 AM
Urth Urth is offline

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No sense in addressing Kurdi, if it's it's indeed entirely fake.

The first is seems like international reporting, the second is sensationalist conjecture. The third is currently under review by Congress and the CIA... While the facts are nebulous at this point, isn't it presumptuous that it can be called "fake"?
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  #16522  
Old 12-12-2016, 09:17 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urth View Post
That's absolutely fine that people don't trust politicians. I don't advocate blind trust in authority.

What I'm afraid of is the populace lacking the skills to sense bias and fiction. I admit my social media is rife with "liberal" fake news, but I'm intelligent enough to discern where the kernel of truth is, and how much is embellishment, editorial intent, and just plain smoke. I assume you can as well.

It's when people believe that millions of illegal voters are in California and that a pedophile ring operates out of a pizza joint that I have to hit the brakes and listen to where others aren't throttling their own thoughts.
But the news itself is an authority that people shouldn't blindly obey. I have more faith in the American people than that but there is a reason people are going to believe one source of new over others. They have their own personal experiences. I am sure it is many a Democrat dreams to shut down Fox News for disagreeing with them and criticizing them constantly. I am more afraid of people who don't understand that part of living in an open society is having to hear things you disagree without without being able to retaliate by silencing them. That is stuff that happens in the middle east. It is the judgment that an elite group of censors is more capable of corruption than millions of Americans who get their news. I assure you that Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Pennsylvania voted Trump because of their reliance on manufacturing and not because of fake news.

Anyone that believes the pedophile ring already hated Clinton in the first place for other reasons. It isn't going to motivate them to vote differently. As for California I don't think we should accept that the people that count the votes do so with the upmost integrity and without personal bias. Democracy doesn't always work that way and there is such a thing as a sham vote count. The US is actually special in that our states are in charge of counting votes and they can even determine how that states electors are awarded. The US doesn't have a uniform voting requirement for voters or a uniform method to count votes. That is why the popular vote doesn't matter because a corrupt state legislature can't just inflate their popular vote totals to gain an advantage. I think the idea that we have cities that refuse to cooperate with the federal authorities when it comes to immigration is something that wouldn't happen but here we are.
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  #16523  
Old 12-12-2016, 09:23 AM
Urth Urth is offline

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I wasn't addressing voting behavior.

I was addressing fake news credibility and the actions of those that believe them. Clinton's remarks regarding fake news is that "lives are at stake". This is true when armed vigilantes "investigate" a story that is undeniably false. How is that curtailed, if not through a form of censorship?

Last edited by Urth; 12-12-2016 at 09:26 AM..
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  #16524  
Old 12-12-2016, 09:27 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urth View Post
I wasn't addressing voting behavior.

I was addressing fake news credibility and the actions of those that believe them. Clinton's remarks regarding fake news is that "lives are at stake". This is true when armed vigilantes "investigate" a story that is undeniably false.
But even mainstream news can put lives at stake.
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  #16525  
Old 12-12-2016, 09:29 AM
Urth Urth is offline

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But even mainstream news can put lives at stake.
Please explain.
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