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  #726  
Old 09-04-2010, 08:34 AM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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Originally Posted by Reyson View Post
It's funny and sad at the same time, so far science has proved thousands of things that were thought to be done by God, from weather to evolution, stars, genetics, vulcanos, earthquakes, medicine, chemistry,... and what have the believers proved?
The only answer any religious person has given is "Well, you haven't succesfully proved X, that must be the work of God!", yet a few years later, someone finds the scientific answer for that problem.
Its like the old adage goes, Science too hard to understand? Try religion!
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  #727  
Old 09-04-2010, 09:09 AM
Chrise Chrise is offline

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If by chance, some omnipotent entity did create the universe, I'd like to think he wouldn't give a flying fuck about humans or any other creature
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  #728  
Old 09-04-2010, 09:15 AM
Reyson Reyson is offline

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomEvilGuy View Post
The question I would ask is, did they truly believe that God or gods were responsible for those things, or did they say it just because they didn't know what actually caused in and just wanted to attribute something to it (if you believe God created the world anyway, he would be indirectly or directly responsible for it anyway, so if that's your belief in a way he did cause all those things) or even in a tongue in cheek kind of way? I mean, people thank God for all sorts of things without really meaning it or thinking that it was God's doing, so I wouldn't be surprised if people previously mentioned these things in a not all together serious way.

Hardly a small thing to be fair.
If I'ld go to some foreign planet, and took a dump there, which ended up being the fertiliser a plant need, which then caused more life to sprout, one-celled species,tiny insects which in turn continued to evolve to become an alien civilisation. Would that make me their God, because I did something that unknowingly ended up being the reason they exist, millionq/billions of years later?
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  #729  
Old 09-04-2010, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Reyson View Post
If I'ld go to some foreign planet, and took a dump there, which ended up being the fertiliser a plant need, which then caused more life to sprout, one-celled species,tiny insects which in turn continued to evolve to become an alien civilisation. Would that make me their God, because I did something that unknowingly ended up being the reason they exist, millionq/billions of years later?
Only if you get worshiped for it.
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  #730  
Old 09-04-2010, 11:26 AM
SomeRandomEvilGuy SomeRandomEvilGuy is offline

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Originally Posted by Reyson View Post
If I'ld go to some foreign planet, and took a dump there, which ended up being the fertiliser a plant need, which then caused more life to sprout, one-celled species,tiny insects which in turn continued to evolve to become an alien civilisation. Would that make me their God, because I did something that unknowingly ended up being the reason they exist, millionq/billions of years later?
Ah, but you're not omnipotent or omnisient. Try to understand the perspective here - God knows what he's doing. He's not going to accidently cause the creation of the universe, he's going to start it on purpose.
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Last edited by SomeRandomEvilGuy; 09-04-2010 at 12:37 PM..
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  #731  
Old 09-04-2010, 11:53 AM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Ah, but your not omnipotent or omnisient. Try to understand the perspective here - God knows what he's doing. He's not going to accidently cause the creation of the universe, he's going to start it on purpose.
how do you know he might not even be conscious
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  #732  
Old 09-04-2010, 11:59 AM
Yuber8900 Yuber8900 is offline

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how do you know he might not even be conscious
Cool story bro.
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  #733  
Old 09-04-2010, 11:59 AM
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Azathoth???
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  #734  
Old 09-04-2010, 12:36 PM
SomeRandomEvilGuy SomeRandomEvilGuy is offline

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Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
how do you know he might not even be conscious
Hence understanding the perspective of those who believe God caused the Big Bang. If the causer of the Big Bang isn't conscious, then it isn't God (or at least, not in the Judeo-Christian religions).
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  #735  
Old 09-04-2010, 01:05 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomEvilGuy View Post
Hence understanding the perspective of those who believe God caused the Big Bang. If the causer of the Big Bang isn't conscious, then it isn't God (or at least, not in the Judeo-Christian religions).
The correct term is Abrahamic religions
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  #736  
Old 09-04-2010, 01:34 PM
SomeRandomEvilGuy SomeRandomEvilGuy is offline

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The correct term is Abrahamic religions
Unless I was not including Islam.
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And whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who allows the protestor to burn the flag."
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  #737  
Old 09-05-2010, 09:19 AM
Jigsaw Complex Jigsaw Complex is offline

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I reject the concept of a god for several reason.

1: There is no "just and loving" invisible man watching over us.
2: If there was, they don't care; what makes us important enough to watch?
3: More harm has been done in the name of "god" then anything else.
4: All religion serves to do is control the weak and "order" the masses.
5: There is more science that disproves "miracles" every few years.
6: We are a vain people; we love the idea of a perfect being that looks like us.
7: religion is the only club that charges for its handbooks
8: religion by nature garners hate by the "we're right; you're damned" motto.
9: It's one of the few bronze age concept we still use. Is the world flat?
10: religion, all the way back to its most basic form, was created to do 2 things. It served to explain the unknown before there was science, and it served to control the ignorant masses via fear and in a more modern sense, promises of paradise. Nobody likes to bring up the fact that all the stories from these religions are retellings of pagan stories and beliefs. religion is completely hypocritical in every sense. The crazy cult who drinks the kool-aid when the meteor passes are crazy, but the organized cult with more members that believes in a talking snake, the noah story, and that a jewish zombie came to save them (and bailed on us, but it's ok cause he's coming back) are in the moral right about every matter?

No, i reject the concept of a god and religion. I reject the mental shackles that have been on humanity since our beginning. Do you know why religion tells us "he" is coming back? It puts a timer on everything we do. Nothing seems to matter as much cause at some random unknown point, "he" returns and it's all moot and our enemies will suffer while we prosper cause we picked the right team.

I reject religion because if there is a god that watches over us, they are pretty fucked. I reject religions because it invalidates everything we do cause it won't matter in the "end". Revelations is a self-fulfilling prophecy, and it's our fault. We are told our hate and warmongering are "signs" and we continue to fear, hate, and control our fellow man.

It would be rather funny if we weren't in the middle of it all.
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  #738  
Old 09-05-2010, 07:56 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Originally Posted by Jigsaw Complex View Post
I reject the concept of a god for several reason.

2: If there was, they don't care; what makes us important enough to watch?
3: More harm has been done in the name of "god" then anything else.
4: All religion serves to do is control the weak and "order" the masses.
5: There is more science that disproves "miracles" every few years.
6: We are a vain people; we love the idea of a perfect being that looks like us.
7: religion is the only club that charges for its handbooks
8: religion by nature garners hate by the "we're right; you're damned" motto.
9: It's one of the few bronze age concept we still use. Is the world flat?
10: religion, all the way back to its most basic form, was created to do 2 things. It served to explain the unknown before there was science, and it served to control the ignorant masses via fear and in a more modern sense, promises of paradise. Nobody likes to bring up the fact that all the stories from these religions are retellings of pagan stories and beliefs. religion is completely hypocritical in every sense. The crazy cult who drinks the kool-aid when the meteor passes are crazy, but the organized cult with more members that believes in a talking snake, the noah story, and that a jewish zombie came to save them (and bailed on us, but it's ok cause he's coming back) are in the moral right about every matter?
2. The mere fact that they were created by them? I guess kids aren't important enough to be cared by parents?

3. Read some history.

4. I think that is called people.

5. Science disproves science every few years too. On some subjects scientists don't even agree with other scientists.

7. You are thinking of Scientology or something.

8. Same thing as number 3. There have been, oh, maybe more than 1 person in history that didn't use religion, or even had science as their excuse, to "hate" people.

9. We still use bronze. Should we stop that? How about the concept of the wheel? That is old. No more wheels allowed?

10. I guess good Samaritism, charity, helping others, etc. are all garbage.
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  #739  
Old 09-05-2010, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Rolandius View Post
2. The mere fact that they were created by them? I guess kids aren't important enough to be cared by parents?

3. Read some history.

4. I think that is called people.

5. Science disproves science every few years too. On some subjects scientists don't even agree with other scientists.

7. You are thinking of Scientology or something.

8. Same thing as number 3. There have been, oh, maybe more than 1 person in history that didn't use religion, or even had science as their excuse, to "hate" people.

9. We still use bronze. Should we stop that? How about the concept of the wheel? That is old. No more wheels allowed?

10. I guess good Samaritism, charity, helping others, etc. are all garbage.
So you're saying that religion is the only source of morality and that without it we're a lost barbaric people who will inevitably kill each other off?

Hyperbole, yes, but the point is making short blunt rebuttals about shit you know nothing about is not an answer to the above accusations (just as those accusations themselves don't stand up unless tested against what's known about history.)

And to get off the topic of religion alltogether, I fucking hate talking to radical libertarians who believe that anarchism is actually a viable option. And Ron Paul...oh dear god why do they have to love that jackass the way they do? The man even claims he's a doctor when the fact of the matter is he couldn't even get a license from the AMA and just up and decided to make his own medical board so he could hawk his skills off as reasonable enough to practice. Who in their right fucking mind does that?
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  #740  
Old 09-05-2010, 08:23 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Cantus, that actually reminds me of a group that annoys me: the folks who think that in the event of total economic collapse gold is the ideal commodity to own. It's only valuable because it's rare, it has nearly no practical applications. Yet for some reason, folks think that if we fall into some sort of Mad Max style social apocalypse people are going to have some interest in trading them useful and valuable and valuable goods for a metal you can't even make tools from.
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  #741  
Old 09-05-2010, 08:26 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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So you're saying that religion is the only source of morality and that without it we're a lost barbaric people who will inevitably kill each other off?

Hyperbole, yes, but the point is making short blunt rebuttals about shit you know nothing about is not an answer to the above accusations (just as those accusations themselves don't stand up unless tested against what's known about history.)
Where did I say that? I am saying religion = a source of morality for some. Religion doesn't = only thing that has made people hate other people in history.

You are assuming I know nothing about what I am talking about though. I was just throwing in some rebuttals of, to me, inaccurate statements like, and I am paraphrasing here, "religion is to be blamed for pretty much all the bad things/events that people have done", "all religions charge you for their handbooks", and similar thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Volkrin View Post
Cantus, that actually reminds me of a group that annoys me: the folks who think that in the event of total economic collapse gold is the ideal commodity to own. It's only valuable because it's rare, it has nearly no practical applications. Yet for some reason, folks think that if we fall into some sort of Mad Max style social apocalypse people are going to have some interest in trading them useful and valuable and valuable goods for a metal you can't even make tools from.
I would stock clean water.
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Last edited by Rolandius; 09-05-2010 at 08:29 PM..
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  #742  
Old 09-05-2010, 10:53 PM
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I would stock clean water.
Toilet paper, tampons, whiskey, and tobacco will be worth 20x their weight in gold should we ever encounter the end of civilization.
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  #743  
Old 09-05-2010, 11:13 PM
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There's one that everyone forgets. Salt. The stuff in your kitchen is an aberration, and so getting an adequate amount of salt in your diet come worlds end would actually become a difficult endeavor.

Also, a knife sharpener, solar water boiler, and batteries.

Damn it all, now I just want to write (and subsequently use) a survival guide. It's oddly a lot of fun to plan if just because it feels like you're about to embark on a real life RPG (Fallout anyone?).
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  #744  
Old 09-06-2010, 12:10 PM
Wulfang Wulfang is offline

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Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
There's one that everyone forgets. Salt. The stuff in your kitchen is an aberration, and so getting an adequate amount of salt in your diet come worlds end would actually become a difficult endeavor.

Also, a knife sharpener, solar water boiler, and batteries.

Damn it all, now I just want to write (and subsequently use) a survival guide. It's oddly a lot of fun to plan if just because it feels like you're about to embark on a real life RPG (Fallout anyone?).
Now that's a project I'd gladly join.

The RPG Geek's Survival Guide.
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  #745  
Old 09-06-2010, 12:12 PM
SicilianNecktie SicilianNecktie is offline

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Suvivalism is an interesting concept, if ya'll have heard of it. These are the kind of people who have an alternate home in the backcountry rnching sheep or having a subsitience garden. I can't say I haven't looked into the idea before...

Although a little comment on the gold; it would be quite valuable if you were able to escape the disaster area. Not to mention, the constant inflation of the U.S. dollar means gold is an actual constant of worth that doesn't "decay" in value. That in mind, if an economic breakdown, a second depression if you will, were to hit your country, gold would maintain a constant value, enabling you to barter a way out of where you are to a new place and the potential to set up a new life there. Gold isn't being saved only for a physical disaster.
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  #746  
Old 09-06-2010, 12:36 PM
Jigsaw Complex Jigsaw Complex is offline

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FYI: If such disaster happens and if i survive, i'm so claiming a small city and cataloging humanity and saving what books from every library i can. That, or degrade to a pirate and steal anything i want and live on a yacht at sea.
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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
The thought of Genn and them entering Darnassus amuses me.

'Yea see that purple light? Just walk into that to enter the city. Just trust me you'll be fine!'.

We are Sex Bob-Omb! And we're here to make you think about death and get sad and stuff!

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  #747  
Old 09-06-2010, 01:20 PM
Chrise Chrise is offline

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Capture zombie chicks
Collect paper bags and handcuffs
Start a brothel
???
Profit
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  #748  
Old 09-06-2010, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrise View Post
Capture zombie chicks
Collect paper bags and handcuffs
Start a brothel
???
Profit
You sir are an evil, evil genius.

And Sicilian, the current recession has severely inflated the value of gold beyond its actual net worth. Individuals who buy into it now will lose a horrific amount of their net worth once that bubble pops. Personally, in terms of survivalism, I'm investing in only those things that are most important to my and my fellow's survival. If it came to a fallout like state, I'd only collect gold if I knew electronics manufacturing (and thus advanced technology) would be more difficult.
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  #749  
Old 09-06-2010, 04:23 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Telocites
WOAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!


edit:More WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

Leg saved by adult stem cells
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  #750  
Old 09-06-2010, 05:39 PM
Yuber8900 Yuber8900 is offline

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Telocites
WOAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!!


edit:More WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

Leg saved by adult stem cells
The fuck does any of that have to do with this thread?
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