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Old 09-05-2010, 06:34 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Default The Naga - Empire or Kingdom?

I'm confused mostly because of how Azshara is refered. She has been refered, to my knowledge, both as Queen and Empress. At first I thougt she was merely called Queen when refering to her time as regent of the Night Elves, and that she became Empress and assumed that title upon her transformation. But even when adressing Azshara in her current state, she is refered to as Queen at times, and Empress at others.

This makes me wonder a bit about Nazjatar and the Naga itself. A Naga kingdom is all well and good, but a Naga Empire spanning the seafloor would strike me as a much more interesting enemy to combat in an upcoming expansion.

What do you think? Azshara; Queen or Empress?
Nazjatar - Kingdom or Empire?
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Old 09-05-2010, 06:57 AM
Shaman Shaman is offline

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I think it was a Kingdom before she became a Naga, now I'd call it an Empire.
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Old 09-05-2010, 07:10 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Actually, wasn't the Kaldorei civilazation also an empire? Zin'Azhari itself has been speculated to be gigantic in size.

Then again, it could merely have been seen as an empire by the trolls.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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Old 09-05-2010, 07:13 AM
tufy tufy is offline

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It can be both Empire and Kingdom at the same time, depending on internal ordering. Let me give you an example: United Kingdom was always clearly a kingdom. On the other hand, when considered together with its colonies, it was a British Empire. Likewise, the british monarch was usually called a king/queen, but for a short period held the title of emperor as well (even though the title was soon abandoned in favor of the tradition).

Side note: an empire does not need to be extensive. Byzantine Empire wasn't much larger than Constantinopolis in its final stage of existence and the German Empire (Keiserreich) was just slightly more extensive than modern Germany. So "Empire" does not mean extensive Naga underwater possessions (though based on Vashj'ir,I'd say that description might actually be true) - it could mean Naga intent to create an Empire eventually, as they have expressed such desires time and again.
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Old 09-05-2010, 07:55 AM
Thekar Thekar is offline

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Generally an empire is a political entity where one ethnic group/nation rules over others and has holdings outside of their homeland. Seeing as the Naga do rule over Mur'gul and some Murlocs and had territory in Outland (again ruling over some Broken Draenei) they could indeed be called an empire.
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:03 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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An empire, because they have many enslaved races under their command, and their rule seems to be dictatorship.

In the end, there's no difference at all, but I think empire defines it better. Azshara is the empress of the Naga empire, and she's the queen of the kingdom of Nazjatar, too.
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Old 09-05-2010, 12:04 PM
Thekar Thekar is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
An empire, because they have many enslaved races under their command, and their rule seems to be dictatorship.

In the end, there's no difference at all, but I think empire defines it better. Azshara is the empress of the Naga empire, and she's the queen of the kingdom of Nazjatar, too.
The difference between a Kingdom and an Empire can get awfully sketchy. As pointed out previously there are examples of Empires calling themselves Kingdoms (the British Empire) and Kingdoms calling themselves Empires (Brazil for a time, though with all the ethnic groups there it might have had a legitimate claim to the title).
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Old 09-05-2010, 12:50 PM
Tabarax Tabarax is offline

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also in terms of tv-tropes, kingdom = good, Empire = Evil.
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Old 09-05-2010, 12:58 PM
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Dagran also call himself emperor rather than king.
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Old 09-05-2010, 06:18 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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So the Dark Irons, The Naga, The Aqir, the Trolls, The Night Elves and the Pandaren all had empires?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:17 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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She also was called the "Sorceress-Queen of Kalimdor". Doesn't mean she was the queen of all of Kalimdor though right?

The Dragonmaw said they had a Dragonmaw empire too.
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Old 09-06-2010, 03:27 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolandius View Post
She also was called the "Sorceress-Queen of Kalimdor". Doesn't mean she was the queen of all of Kalimdor though right?

The Dragonmaw said they had a Dragonmaw empire too.
But... There were no dragons on Outland prior to the opening of the portal...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:31 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
But... There were no dragons on Outland prior to the opening of the portal...
That has to do with their name, not if they had an empire or not.
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Old 09-07-2010, 01:41 AM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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I would say Empire since they probably have cities all over the seas plus lots of "colonies" where we kill them in quests.
Other large kingdoms and empires in Warcraft atm seems to be the Dwarves, Humans, Night Elves and the Forsaken. Naga seems to be the only "enemy" with a great deal of land.

Last edited by RobLore; 09-07-2010 at 01:54 AM..
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:07 AM
Thekar Thekar is offline

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I'd say at it's height the Scourge was surely an Empire. Even if they had a "King" ruling them. "Lich Emperor" doesn't have the same ring I guess.
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Old 09-11-2010, 04:33 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolandius View Post
That has to do with their name, not if they had an empire or not.
Dragons are the only thing they have going for them though. What other possible means have they had to create an empire?

I thougt that the pre-Warlock orcs were shamanistic and lived in huts. The Maya-esque empires were built by the trolls, I can't imagine how the Dragonmaw of all creatures would accomplish that.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-11-2010, 05:40 PM
Thekar Thekar is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
Dragons are the only thing they have going for them though. What other possible means have they had to create an empire?

I thougt that the pre-Warlock orcs were shamanistic and lived in huts. The Maya-esque empires were built by the trolls, I can't imagine how the Dragonmaw of all creatures would accomplish that.
Maybe it's one of those bullshit empires that's not really a physical empire but a metaphysical one, like an "empire of fear" or some crap.
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