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  #4026  
Old 09-17-2013, 06:13 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Yuber8900 View Post
One.
Alright.

EDIT: Ah, I read it more carefully. The beginning talks about "excessive spamming" while the end could be interpreted to include single examples. A little poorly written, but nevermind then.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 09-17-2013 at 06:16 AM..
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  #4027  
Old 09-17-2013, 06:16 AM
Yuber8900 Yuber8900 is offline

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Fine. "Excessively" removed.
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  #4028  
Old 09-17-2013, 06:16 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Yuber8900 View Post
Fine. "Excessively" removed.
You're sweet when it was my own reading error, thank you.
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  #4029  
Old 09-17-2013, 06:31 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Originally Posted by Garotar View Post
Then it serves no purpose since all it becomes is another place to chat, not a punishment at all.

Sorry, but it didn't serve a useful purpose that wasn't already covered before it and still isn't covered in some way already in the forums. People just need to get over the fact that people actually get punished now.
You know, some parts of the world don't see prison as merely punishment - but a way to rehabilitate people so that they can intergrate back into society at some point.

If people want to visit interns in HoL, who are you to say they can't? Are people imprisoned only as punishment? Isn't the greater and more important aspect of prison, to keep undesirables away from society?
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Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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  #4030  
Old 09-17-2013, 06:36 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
You know, some parts of the world don't see prison as merely punishment - but a way to rehabilitate people so that they can intergrate back into society at some point.

If people want to visit interns in HoL, who are you to say they can't? Are people imprisoned only as punishment? Isn't the greater and more important aspect of prison, to keep undesirables away from society?
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  #4031  
Old 09-17-2013, 06:40 AM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
You know, some parts of the world don't see prison as merely punishment - but a way to rehabilitate people so that they can intergrate back into society at some point.

If people want to visit interns in HoL, who are you to say they can't? Are people imprisoned only as punishment? Isn't the greater and more important aspect of prison, to keep undesirables away from society?
That's nice. It's still not a compelling reason to being HoL back since this isn't society as a whole, it's a web forum. If you really really want to interact with the people banned from here, there are other ways to do it.
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  #4032  
Old 09-17-2013, 07:31 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Originally Posted by Garotar View Post
That's nice. It's still not a compelling reason to being HoL back
As you can see, quite a few of us are disagreeing with your position on the matter.

This isn't a democracy, and a lot of people agreeing on a matter means jack shit (as does your opinion, we're all completely worthless as this forum belongs to Warlock) - but pretending that bringing HoL back isn't a coveted feature is being ignorant on purpose.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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  #4033  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:01 AM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
As you can see, quite a few of us are disagreeing with your position on the matter.

This isn't a democracy, and a lot of people agreeing on a matter means jack shit (as does your opinion, we're all completely worthless as this forum belongs to Warlock) - but pretending that bringing HoL back isn't a coveted feature is being ignorant on purpose.
That's also nice. And it may be coveted by some, but that doesn't mean that it's a good thing to do for the health of the forum. There's also people who want no moderation, but that doesn't mean that it's going to happen (unless all the mods quit in annoyance with having to deal with the people here).
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Last edited by Garotar; 09-17-2013 at 08:06 AM..
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  #4034  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:15 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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I'm not sure what point you're trying to put across. Because I have a sneaking suspicioun that you're not really trying to say "I don't care what anyone wants, so you might as well not say anything about it".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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  #4035  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:25 AM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
I'm not sure what point you're trying to put across. Because I have a sneaking suspicioun that you're not really trying to say "I don't care what anyone wants, so you might as well not say anything about it".
More people can talk about HoL all they want, they haven't brought up anything that means we should change our minds on it from what I've seen so far.

So you can continue going on about it if you really really want to, but I have yet to see a reason to.
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  #4036  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:30 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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So, just to be clear:

1) Given your continous use of "our", you're talking for everyone in the moderator and admin team. Is this correct?

2) "You" are all in unision that there is no reason to re-open the Halls, nor any need to continue the debate?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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  #4037  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:34 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Who wants to reopen the Halls anyway?

Magistrix
Herr
Probably Bolvar
Anyone else?
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  #4038  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:35 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
Who wants to reopen the Halls anyway?

Magistrix
Herr
Probably Bolvar
Anyone else?
I do.
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  #4039  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:35 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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I am fine with the Halls being reopened, due to reasons laid out by Magi, but I am also fine with harsher moderation (even harsher than now imo).
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  #4040  
Old 09-17-2013, 08:36 AM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
So, just to be clear:

1) Given your continous use of "our", you're talking for everyone in the moderator and admin team. Is this correct?

2) "You" are all in unision that there is no reason to re-open the Halls, nor any need to continue the debate?
Let me put it this way. As much as it gets mentioned here, no one has ever seriously brought up the idea of reopening HoL in the admin forum.

And, as I pointed out, nothing anything has brought up for wanting it back is a good reason to being it back in my opinion. Not liking people being banned is not a reason to have a forum just for people to hang around in who should be banned. And rehab is just another way of saying you don't like people being banned.
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Last edited by Garotar; 09-17-2013 at 08:45 AM..
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  #4041  
Old 09-17-2013, 09:38 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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So any word on Korath? Because this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by handclaw View Post
Greetings everyone.

So, some may have noticed Korath's rather toxic behaviour in the last few days. It isn't the first time he acted like this, but we were too lax back then.

There are various reasons for his banishment:
- advocating fictional genocide, which in my oppinion dangerly close in on Salandrin territory.
- even advocating genocide in real life See for example here...
- very hostile behaviour with anyone who dares to disagree with him

I don't know about you guys, but I don't see merit in such behaviour in our community. It's not the first time he did so, but it's the last time. His banishment is permament.

If anyone has questions, feel free to ask.
^ That is a joke. You gonna ban everyone who talks about eliminating a playable race in Warcraft? You gonna ban everyone who posts an opinion that scares you, in the real life thread? You gonna ban everyone who's hostile?

It's great that you guys don't want the Halls of Lordaeron to reopen. But is this what the next level is? Banning people for acting like everyone else?
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  #4042  
Old 09-17-2013, 09:40 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
So any word on Korath? Because this:



^ That is a joke. You gonna ban everyone who talks about eliminating a playable race in Warcraft? You gonna ban everyone who posts an opinion that scares you, in the real life thread? You gonna ban everyone who's hostile?

It's great that you guys don't want the Halls of Lordaeron to reopen. But is this what the next level is? Banning people for acting like everyone else?
You gotta problem with that?
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  #4043  
Old 09-17-2013, 09:41 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Bring Soldrethar and Salandrin back. Gaiz, they had opinions too!!!
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  #4044  
Old 09-17-2013, 09:44 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
You gotta problem with that?
You gotta reason for it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
Bring Soldrethar and Salandrin back. Gaiz, they had opinions too!!!
I remember one of them or another... weren't their posts almost poetically graphic, to the extent that it was pretty certain their only reason for being here was to create gore porn?
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  #4045  
Old 09-17-2013, 09:47 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
You gotta reason for it?
It's Magic, they don't have to explain it.
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  #4046  
Old 09-17-2013, 09:48 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Rotal View Post
It's Magic, they don't have to explain it.
They have explained it. It's just that the explanation was along the lines of "he says the same things that a third of the people on these forums say anyway, he has a political opinion that's scarier than most but equal to others that have been thrown out around here, and his demeanor is equal to about half or more of the people here".
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  #4047  
Old 09-17-2013, 10:13 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
They have explained it. It's just that the explanation was along the lines of "he says the same things that a third of the people on these forums say anyway, he has a political opinion that's scarier than most but equal to others that have been thrown out around here, and his demeanor is equal to about half or more of the people here".
If they truely followed that list I would have been banned months ago.
To answer Verdande, I too welcome a return of Halls of Lordaeron.
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  #4048  
Old 09-17-2013, 11:44 AM
handclaw handclaw is offline


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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
So any word on Korath? Because this:



^ That is a joke. You gonna ban everyone who talks about eliminating a playable race in Warcraft? You gonna ban everyone who posts an opinion that scares you, in the real life thread? You gonna ban everyone who's hostile?

It's great that you guys don't want the Halls of Lordaeron to reopen. But is this what the next level is? Banning people for acting like everyone else?
Look, I only gave a brief summary of the problem. I observed it for a while, didn't take rash action and also asked for the oppinion of others. His behavior which led to his ban was on par with Quirnheim's if not worse.
Sure, you can shut your eyes and say it's only the evil mods, but there are problems on this forum, which were only promoted by our inaction.

If you get everyday reports about people deciding to cause a scene, abandoning any responsibility for what they post, then sorry, you can't tell me there is nothing wrong.

Now, I'm not that closeminded to go "shut up, things won't change". I'm open to discuss things and a middle-ground could be found. But going "no, only my oppinion counts", demanding things while making a hissy fit about the moderators or trying to smartass your way around things won't get you anywhere. You only end up with pissing of some of the mods and ending up with nothing. Work with us and we work with you.

Now, for the Halls of Lordaeron: Oh sure, you might remember the rosy things, or simply ignore its problems, but I'll recapitulate:

- HoL relies 100% on admins. Moderators can't do anything. So, Moderators can't use it as a proper tool and can only rely on bans anyway. Also, if an admin isn't aviable, people can be locked there longer than intended: See Kyalin Raintree
- HoL should be a punishment. Not the "you can do whatever you want here"-zone. If people go as far as "hey, welcome in my personal thread that is just for me" although they weren't yet in the Halls, then there is something wrong. In the end it only promotes further bad behaviour.
- People began to be more and more worried to get locked into the halls for their threads which perfectly fine for the usual forums.

Anyway, not that it would matter to some...

Fact remains: Korath's behaviour was deemed unacceptable. But I can agree: okay, a permament ban might have been too much for now. Yet, we surely won't promote such behaviour further. If the other mods agree, we can give him another chance.
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  #4049  
Old 09-17-2013, 11:44 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
They have explained it. It's just that the explanation was along the lines of "he says the same things that a third of the people on these forums say anyway, he has a political opinion that's scarier than most but equal to others that have been thrown out around here, and his demeanor is equal to about half or more of the people here".
If the argument is "players who are toxic to the community should get banned" then I'm fine with that.

I recognize that puts a lot of pressure on the mods to come to a quorum about what qualifies as toxic and then moderate accordingly, but if the prime directive of the moderators is to keep the community from devolving into flamewars every two minutes then purging toxic posters is within their purview.

And I agree with Garotar: the Halls don't serve a purpose other than being a dung heap, and banishing toxic posters to the dung heap without barring anyone else from going there just means the cancer gets its own room.

It's to the point where if the mods aren't giving you what want, and they're banning your friends for reasons you don't agree with, and you want a place where everyone can fling poo at each other because flinging poo is fun, then the cost of buying your own hosting and setting up your own forums is pretty much as low as it is ever going to be.
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  #4050  
Old 09-17-2013, 12:00 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by handclaw View Post
- HoL relies 100% on admins. Moderators can't do anything. So, Moderators can't use it as a proper tool and can only rely on bans anyway. Also, if an admin isn't aviable, people can be locked there longer than intended: See Kyalin Raintree
Is there something preventing you (the admins) from giving Moderators access to features which change users ranks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by handclaw View Post
- HoL should be a punishment. Not the "you can do whatever you want here"-zone. If people go as far as "hey, welcome in my personal thread that is just for me" although they weren't yet in the Halls, then there is something wrong. In the end it only promotes further bad behaviour.
If people are unable to participate in discussions outside of HoL, isn't that already punishment? You can't say that it's not a punishment, we are merely disagreeing on whether or not the scale of punishment is adequate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by handclaw View Post
- People began to be more and more worried to get locked into the halls for their threads which perfectly fine for the usual forums.
Do you believe the same people won't be worried for the same reasons and the same threads - which may now have them temporary, or in the case of Korath, surprise-permanently-banished?

And is there something wrong with people actually thinking about their actions before posting like rabid animals? Expecting consequences for their bad behaviour? Isn't that why the world isn't running around raping and killing just about everything - because we have laws and enforcers to maintain society?

Quote:
Originally Posted by handclaw View Post
If the other mods agree, we can give him another chance.
If HoL were re-opened, it wouldn't have to be black or white. It could serve as a gray area - if not as punitive as a permanent banishment.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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