Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > WarCraft Lore Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-23-2015, 04:20 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

Elune
Noitora's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 34,693
BattleTag: Chillman#1339

Night Elf Icon (War3) Your opinion on Night Elves as of WoD

A while back Ghostcrawler made a tweet about elves. Liking them when they were fierce. When given a chance to explain, he said

@OccupyGStreet: @1990Sanji I just felt like we allowed WoW NEs to be too much like LOTR or D&D elves. The War3 NEs felt pretty different and new IMO.


Before someone asks why does his opinion matter? GC has been a blunt man. He doesn't really give PR answers. With all of the complaints regarding elves, is he wrong?

Regarding Staghelm, yes he was a dick. I haven't read Stormrage, so to my knowledge I have no idea how people treated their leaders. I've grown mistrustful of people's interpretations however. Staghelm never pretended to be not a dick. Seeing his past, it's not hard to feel pity for him nor is it hard to see why people like him. He provided the elves with a home and way to regain their immortality after spending a few years without it. That's a huge cultural shift. Selfish as it was, and before knowing the truth about him, was he wrong for wanting it?

As for Maiev, yes she was a Punisher type of pursuer, but was she wrong to chase after Illidan? Her methods were wrong, but were her motives? After Illidan, sure I'd say she was a villain. I don't think that killing innocent Highborne should be cheered. They could've done without blaming Malfurion for things if she was just going to be dismissed as a ranting lunatic.

That's why people dislike Malfurion so much. We're told he's this great leader people should listen to, but you only ever see it when he saves the world, tying him into Thrall levels of blindness regarding Garrosh. The books do a better job of writing him than the games. My biggest issue is that he doesn't feel like a person, he's a force of nature.

Another issue I have with Tyrande. After so many years, when you stop to think about it, people don't write nor think of her as a person. She's s plot device. A way to turn the night elves into whatever interpretation players have of them. I think Knaack has done the better job of writing her, which I don't know how to feel about that. Everywhere else she's a plot device for someone, and trying to get her back to her WC3 self has been disastrous.

The night elves are one of the biggest symbols of Warcraft 3, and as we've seen with WoD, trying to bring back the past doesn't work anymore.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobebyarlant View Post
All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-23-2015, 07:26 AM
Apep Apep is offline

Warden
Apep's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Posts: 736

Default

The night elves feel irrelevant as of WoD. When I see one or a group in new content I cannot help but wonder why they are there, and the answer only ever seems to be doing stereotypical night elf things, which is more or less druid related.

They don't feel like a race, more like props.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-23-2015, 08:05 AM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

Eternal
Royalpimp's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,577

Talking

Back during warcraft 3/vanilla/tbc wow I used to think that they're pretty great from all points of view. They had great and diverse armies, great impact on the world, great and at the time ''clean'' magic(Elune was worth something back then and arcane was bad yo), and were made out to be(in my mind at least) as arguably the greatest race on Azeroth. I actually resented them somewhat since I favored the blood elves and I thought that the night elves would forever be the relevant elves in the setting, leaving my peps as the butt monkey elves of the setting.
Now they honestly just suck. They've lost almost everything that made them interesting just so they can fit in the Alliance. They don't seem to matter to the world nearly as much as they did in Warcraft 3, their armies aren't as deadly as they used to be, their druids are mostly neutral apparently, and Elune seems to be a Naaru now. Even their leaders, whom I've never liked but who always seemed capable at least, barely do anything smart and proactive anymore and just feel like props for Varian.
I honestly don't even dislike them since they feel so insignificant to me right now.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
And Lordaeron

ffs I'm the only one who cares aren't I
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
And that is the Drama to being part of the Horde. There are people out there who want you dead. You honestly can’t blame them. Do you lie down and die for them? No. You enjoy the challenge. You keep your head up and move forward.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-23-2015, 08:21 AM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

Elune
Ganishka's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Richland, WA
Posts: 8,297
BattleTag: Ganishka #1520

Default

They need to revert to being Elune ackbar yelling, scantily clad, purple savages, and stop with this stupid hippy Druid crap. It has gotten so bad that Elune is hardly ever mentioned anymore.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Baras
A blind, deaf, comatose, lobotomy patient could feel MY ANGER!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowordfun
The next time you feel like you're about to be triggered, put the barrel in your mouth.

Last edited by Ganishka; 07-23-2015 at 08:29 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-23-2015, 09:09 AM
TerrorhoofMayo TerrorhoofMayo is offline

Arch-Druid
TerrorhoofMayo's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,086
BattleTag: CJFurious#1908

Default

I liked them initially in WC3, but then they got overrated.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-23-2015, 09:19 AM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

Elune
Frostwolf's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,442

Default

Never liked night elves. Not in WC3. Not in WoW. I don't like elves in any medium, though.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-23-2015, 09:28 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

Trade Baroness - Admin
Nazja's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: All the lands of Wonder.
Posts: 40,997

Default

They just need some action, other characters, racial armour and weapons.

They've got my favourite flying mount, so they're already winning in that area. RAF really paid off.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-23-2015, 09:29 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

Elune
SmokeBlader's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 30,980

Default

As great as ever. Only two problems: Being led by Furion, and obeying every command of King Chin and his idiotic son.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-23-2015, 09:36 AM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

Banished
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 13,294

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
As great as ever. Only two problems: Being led by Furion, and obeying every command of King Chin and his idiotic son.
this
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-23-2015, 10:19 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

Elune
Noitora's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 34,693
BattleTag: Chillman#1339

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostwolf View Post
Never liked night elves. Not in WC3. Not in WoW. I don't like elves in any medium, though.
I thought you liked Belves now, or at least Lorthemar.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kobebyarlant View Post
All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-23-2015, 10:45 AM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

Elune
Frostwolf's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,442

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
I thought you liked Belves now, or at least Lorthemar.
Ehhh. I was fairly receptive to them at a few points, yes. I tried to get into them on several occasions. They have a few characters that I don't despise.

They never have been and never will be on the same tier that I hold dwarves, tauren, and orcs. (Or held, in the case of the orcs. Orcs are currently at the bottom of the rung, for me. Still above elves, though.)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-23-2015, 10:49 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

Banished
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,773

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
They just need some action, other characters, racial armour and weapons.
This. Though to be a little more specific, for the fun of it:

The biggest problem Night Elves have in WoW, IMO, is that Blizzard can't make up their minds about what they want them to be. One minute they say they want to make them more "Like WarCraft 3" but don't ever explain what THEY see that as. To most players that means more "savage" as opposed to the Ultra-Peace-vibe some Nelves give off in-game.

Thing is, I -like- the whole Nature Elves thing. It's cool. They look different to the standard "Beautiful" fantasy Forest-dwelling-Elves [like LOTR for example] which is a nice change, and the whole War of the Ancients backstory is interesting; I like how they weren't this Nature-Loving by default, infact it (given the WOTA Trilogy) was seen as a bit of a quirk for a few like Malfurion. More they became that way after all the shit that went down, again, interesting.

The look of Darnassus (and Teldrassil as a whole) is awesome. The Tree-Dwellings, the Ancients walking around/acting as guards, the Wisps. It's all very cool. Hell the whole thing about their Warrior Caste (the Sentinels) and Priest Caste (The Sisterhood of Elune) being all Female was damn interesting, but them basically removing that to allow Male Nelves to play everything (and Fem Nelves to play Druids) has kind of lost something about the race.

I suppose it could be argued that this is a way of highlighting the fact the Race is undergoing large, but in a sense logical, changes after the major events of WarCraft 3. I get that in all fairness - I don't buy the arguements from folks saying "They should go back to only living in their Forests and not giving a shit about anything outside of it." because that just isn't practical given the current setting/events.

The problem is though they don't seem to have a strong, and clear, identity at this point. If it's the Nature thing, then they need to do a better job of showing that more strongly. If it's their Battle and/or Diplomacy Skills, then we need to see some new, fresh Night Elf Named NPCs going forward.

I won't hold my breath, however.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-23-2015, 11:58 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

Eternal Watcher
Yaskaleh's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The heart of Scania
Posts: 18,625
BattleTag: Yaskaleh#1817

Default

Night elves were great. Now they suck donkey balls.
__________________

Say no to genocide!
Save the Nightborne!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-23-2015, 12:09 PM
Insipid_Lobster Insipid_Lobster is offline

Eternal
Insipid_Lobster's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Yolkshur
Posts: 3,744
BattleTag: InsipidLobst#2126

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerbrew View Post
This. Though to be a little more specific, for the fun of it:

The biggest problem Night Elves have in WoW, IMO, is that Blizzard can't make up their minds about what they want them to be. One minute they say they want to make them more "Like WarCraft 3" but don't ever explain what THEY see that as. To most players that means more "savage" as opposed to the Ultra-Peace-vibe some Nelves give off in-game.

Thing is, I -like- the whole Nature Elves thing. It's cool. They look different to the standard "Beautiful" fantasy Forest-dwelling-Elves [like LOTR for example] which is a nice change, and the whole War of the Ancients backstory is interesting; I like how they weren't this Nature-Loving by default, infact it (given the WOTA Trilogy) was seen as a bit of a quirk for a few like Malfurion. More they became that way after all the shit that went down, again, interesting.

The look of Darnassus (and Teldrassil as a whole) is awesome. The Tree-Dwellings, the Ancients walking around/acting as guards, the Wisps. It's all very cool. Hell the whole thing about their Warrior Caste (the Sentinels) and Priest Caste (The Sisterhood of Elune) being all Female was damn interesting, but them basically removing that to allow Male Nelves to play everything (and Fem Nelves to play Druids) has kind of lost something about the race.

I suppose it could be argued that this is a way of highlighting the fact the Race is undergoing large, but in a sense logical, changes after the major events of WarCraft 3. I get that in all fairness - I don't buy the arguements from folks saying "They should go back to only living in their Forests and not giving a shit about anything outside of it." because that just isn't practical given the current setting/events.

The problem is though they don't seem to have a strong, and clear, identity at this point. If it's the Nature thing, then they need to do a better job of showing that more strongly. If it's their Battle and/or Diplomacy Skills, then we need to see some new, fresh Night Elf Named NPCs going forward.

I won't hold my breath, however.
Completely agree with you here Hammer, I've never been massive on night elves; i'm more of a flamboyant spires with floating gardens kinda guy over nature etc. But the night elves have slowly become a mulch that can't really decide what it really wants to be. I don't think it's reasonable for anyone to expect everything about them to remain as it was, they'll just complain about stagnation then anyway.

I think it would not only benefit the Night Elf narrative but the Alliance narrative as a whole if Blizzard starts giving the races some independant motivation beyond "those guys are doing X and we need to stop them". Have them get their own objective somewhere, one that isn't tied to the Alliance at all and have them go about it in their own way; send in the sentinels or whatever.
__________________
“Children are dying." Lull nodded. "That's a succinct summary of humankind, I'd say. Who needs tomes and volumes of history? Children are dying. The injustices of the world hide in those three words.”
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-23-2015, 12:09 PM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

Eternal
Royalpimp's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 4,577

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
Night elves were great. Now they suck Varian's balls.
Fix'd that 4 ya m8
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
And Lordaeron

ffs I'm the only one who cares aren't I
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
And that is the Drama to being part of the Horde. There are people out there who want you dead. You honestly can’t blame them. Do you lie down and die for them? No. You enjoy the challenge. You keep your head up and move forward.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-23-2015, 12:28 PM
Shaman Shaman is offline

Site Staff - Admin
Shaman's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The Barrens
Posts: 12,448

Night Elf Icon (War3)

Religious-environmentalist-martial triarchy leading a boring/intolerant/cute people with the occasionally ethical moments of internationalism.

Good sense of wood-life friends though.

Last edited by Shaman; 07-23-2015 at 12:39 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-23-2015, 02:26 PM
Westlee Westlee is offline
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,085

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
As for Maiev, yes she was a Punisher type of pursuer, but was she wrong to chase after Illidan? Her methods were wrong, but were her motives?
What was wrong with her methods?

Quote:
After Illidan, sure I'd say she was a villain. I don't think that killing innocent Highborne should be cheered. They could've done without blaming Malfurion for things if she was just going to be dismissed as a ranting lunatic.
The Horde PC has killed more Highborne for less reason.

After Malfurion, the Night Elf I hate the most is Jarod. For one thing, he's a Knaak original. For another, he really had no business getting the better of Maiev in a duel. Like, seriously, this asshole sat in a forest for 10,000 years doing nothing. He was never a soldier, really more of a tactician that was good at getting people to listen to him. So how is it he wounds his older sister who's basically in her fighting prime and maintained her edge against naga, demons, orcs whatever monsters she's had to deal with?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-23-2015, 02:41 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

Elune
Lord Grimtale's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Slaughtered Lamb
Posts: 22,046
BattleTag: Grimtale67#1407

Default

I like the Night Elves more after the model revamp, the males look a lot cooler. I think they have a solid place in the Alliance even though people would argue the contrary, and I can't imagine the Alliance would accept any new races at all if it never had Night Elves as part of the faction.

I think what I would want to see is indeed more emphasis on the Elune-worshiping warrior side of the culture, but I also wouldn't mind seeing them work together with Druids and having a better showcase of their differences. I wouldn't mind that with Night Elves and Worgen as well, I think we have to face the fact that these two races simply are going to be close allies for the rest of WoW but that doesn't have to be a bad thing if Blizzard can figure out how to do a better job of making them aesthetically different from one another while also being artistically appropriate. They manage to accomplish the same thing with Humans and Dwarves so I think they can do it.

I personally wouldn't mind an expansion that was Night Elf-flavored Alliance side, perhaps with a side of Worgen doing their own thing and helping their newfound allies.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-23-2015, 02:50 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

Master Worldbuilder
Anansi's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: A Dying World
Posts: 18,136

Orb of Lightning

They need to break with the Alliance. While we're at it, let's break the Forsaken from the Horde. And the Blood Elves from the Horde. And the Draenei from the Alliance.

Actually, let's just completely dissolve both factions.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-23-2015, 02:59 PM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

Banished
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,773

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
Actually, let's just completely dissolve both factions.
Logically, that should of happened more than once by now.

We all know it's never, ever, happening aslong as WoW is around. Given that WoW is going nowhere for - at least - another 10 Years, we're basically never getting proper Story changes/Development in WoW's lifetime.

Sad, but Blizzard aren't giving up their most productive cashcow.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-23-2015, 03:06 PM
Shinjiro Aragaki Shinjiro Aragaki is offline

Hippogryph Rider
Shinjiro Aragaki's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ambrose Asylum
Posts: 220

Default

The problem with the night elves is mainly that Blizzard can't writte good stories for them, or stories in general.

People liked WIII Night Elves because they we're marcial,aggresive, more natural. different from the stereotype of godlike elves. With a culture where women are fighters and their goddess is a warrior. But now they are more pacifist, more neutral, more inactive. And when they do something is probably just to make the other one looks cools, like when they get their ass kicked in Ashenvale or when Varian lecture Tyrande. Simply they give a feel like they aren't relevant anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-23-2015, 07:13 PM
Apep Apep is offline

Warden
Apep's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Posts: 736

Default

Say what you want about Cataclysm, but it did give us Thisalee Crow.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-23-2015, 07:16 PM
Galdus Galdus is offline

Banished
Galdus's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,346

Default

The Night Elves were a 3rd Party to the Alliance and Horde who got shoehorned into the Alliance. They had no roles in the 1st and 2nd Wars, so of course they were dragged down since WoW went back to Humans VS Orcs despite what happened in WC3.

They are also victims of the homogenization that infests WoW. And so Druids are no longer only NE men.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-23-2015, 11:06 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

Elune
Lord Grimtale's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Slaughtered Lamb
Posts: 22,046
BattleTag: Grimtale67#1407

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galdus View Post
The Night Elves were a 3rd Party to the Alliance and Horde who got shoehorned into the Alliance. They had no roles in the 1st and 2nd Wars, so of course they were dragged down since WoW went back to Humans VS Orcs despite what happened in WC3.

They are also victims of the homogenization that infests WoW. And so Druids are no longer only NE men.
I don't get why it's that big of a deal that the gender restrictions have been lifted in Night Elf culture? It's like Kir said in the faction thread, cultures shouldn't stagnate or remain the same after so many years have passed. Sometimes things just happen that force a shift.

They can still stay fairly matriarchal and keep other unique cultural traits, hell that arguably still is the case when you see far more female Night Elves active in the world than you do males.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-23-2015, 11:17 PM
Shinjiro Aragaki Shinjiro Aragaki is offline

Hippogryph Rider
Shinjiro Aragaki's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ambrose Asylum
Posts: 220

Default

I most say i see very unfair that the druids accept female NElfs and they even can access to high-ranks while the sentinels are still hardcore-femenist with the male nelves
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
critical thinking, elune ackbar, elves aren't people, for khalimdor mah sistahs, human "unspecialness"

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.