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Old 12-29-2016, 12:01 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Shadow Orb Banshee Logic

Dead trolls don't become spirits or ghosts. We only see prophets, shadow hunters and witch doctors capable of having their presence lingering on the physical world after their death.

Tormented Night Elves can become ghosts, as seen in Kalimdor and in the Broken Isles.

Tormented High Elves (and probably Blood Elves too) can become Banshees.

Trolls = low titan blood influence

Night Elves = mild titan blood influence (Well of Eternity)

High Elves = higher titan blood influence (Sunwell, addiction)

It's safe to say that "titan blood makes ghosts". Why?

Spirit element?

So mana is more tied to spirit than arcane? Or IS arcane viscerally tied to spooky?

Discuss.
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Old 12-29-2016, 12:51 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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I'd say that it has more to do with the trolls having a deity that's interested in claiming their souls. Elves and humans don't have their own Bwonsamdi, like vrykul do, so their souls are more likely to linger. Bwonsamdi claims any trolls he can get his hands on, so you don't see any of their ghosts, unless voodoo is involved. Helya can only claim the souls her minions get their hands on, and Odyn is only interested in worthy souls, so you're more likely to see vrykul ghosts than troll ghosts, but neither are as numerous as human or elvish ghosts.
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Old 12-29-2016, 02:24 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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I'd say that it has more to do with the trolls having a deity that's interested in claiming their souls. Elves and humans don't have their own Bwonsamdi, like vrykul do, so their souls are more likely to linger. Bwonsamdi claims any trolls he can get his hands on, so you don't see any of their ghosts, unless voodoo is involved. Helya can only claim the souls her minions get their hands on, and Odyn is only interested in worthy souls, so you're more likely to see vrykul ghosts than troll ghosts, but neither are as numerous as human or elvish ghosts.
What about tauren, goblin, orcs (I only remember of orc ghosts in Draenor because Shadowmoon), gnomes and dwarves? I don't remember any of those having ghosts around, and even if one had, the specific case should be traced down to possible interactions with titan blood to test my theory.

Pandaren ghosts are a thing because of the Vale. Any ghost stuff from Pandaria, actually.

And there's Karazhan...

And the fact that most of the kaldorei ghosts we see are in zones close to the big titan blood explosion.
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Old 12-29-2016, 02:41 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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What about tauren, goblin, orcs (I only remember of orc ghosts in Draenor because Shadowmoon), gnomes and dwarves? I don't remember any of those having ghosts around, and even if one had, the specific case should be traced down to possible interactions with titan blood to test my theory.

Pandaren ghosts are a thing because of the Vale. Any ghost stuff from Pandaria, actually.

And there's Karazhan...

And the fact that most of the kaldorei ghosts we see are in zones close to the big titan blood explosion.
I think that dwarves, orcs and tauren are less likely to return as ghosts due to their mindset. Unlike humans, they don't seem to fear death. Of course, there are exceptions. The dwarves of Dun Garok rose as ghosts because they regretted having failed to defend Dun Garok.

Elvish ghosts mostly appear if they died sudden, unexpected deaths; that's the case in the Kaldorei towns that got sundered and in the Queldorei towns that fell to the Scourge. I suspect that the spirits didn't realize that they died, leading to an inability to move on.
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Old 12-29-2016, 02:47 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Plenty of troll ghosts around. Including voodoo spirits summoned by a troll priest in Pandaria.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Category:Troll_ghosts

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Category:Jungle_troll_ghosts
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Old 12-29-2016, 03:57 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Plenty of troll ghosts around. Including voodoo spirits summoned by a troll priest in Pandaria.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Category:Troll_ghosts

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Category:Jungle_troll_ghosts
So what makes a banshee different than a ghost and why only titanblood-mutated trolls become banshees?
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Old 12-29-2016, 04:08 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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I always thought banshees are just that. Ghosts. Although, apart from the real world reference, they're called that because they're vengeful and tend to wail a lot. Per WCIII's description they're vengeful and hate the living with passion. Not all ghosts are like that. And it's not just elves. Nissa Agamand is a human banshee. Blind Mary, Nightlash, and Baroness Anastari could also be human. The default banshee model is just a gameplay inconvenience.

Undead mogu also share a similar appearance with banshees.

Last edited by SmokeBlader; 12-29-2016 at 04:10 PM..
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Old 12-29-2016, 04:20 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Their possessing of living beings is canon, isn't it?

(skip to 4:38:16)

So they aren't just ghosts
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Old 12-29-2016, 04:26 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Could be an enhancement by Ner'zhul as he also gave them their terrible voices. At least to those part of the Scourge armada. But nowhere does it say if ghosts in general can't possess. I can remember ghost mobs from Warcraft 3 who were able to possess your units.
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Old 12-29-2016, 04:52 PM
Hagrid Hagrid is offline

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Orcs are 'meant' to have an afterlife, per Oshu'gun. While their spirits may no longer reach that place, the effects that it would have on the culture would remain so into the modernity. That's not to say that they can't be ghosts, just that their culture has a healthy way of dealing with these things. One doesn't so much 'haunt' the world, as they might visit, or remain; tied to the memories and prayers of their descendants.

That said, there were allusions to the orcish aferlife as early on as WC2, with Gul'dan's mysterious powers being the results of pacts made with old and vengeful spirits. It's good fodder for speculation, especially with the dubious state of Oshu'gun after BC.
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Old 12-29-2016, 06:49 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Btw now I honestly think Blizzard just scrapped out the stuff of possession came World of Warcraft and now banshees are just useless fancy ghosts.

Would love to be proven otherwise, though.

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orcish aferlife as early on as WC2, with Gul'dan's mysterious powers being the results of pacts made with old and vengeful spirits
DON'T
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Old 12-29-2016, 07:05 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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DON'T
Gul'dan was a necromancer, duh.
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Old 12-29-2016, 08:26 PM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Let's make something perfectly clear here. Arcane magic is technically necromantic. Clearly arcane magic is - or has - something integral to (or a part of) necromancy if necromancy is a school of arcane magic or is an arcane art. If arcane magic isn't - or doesn't have - something integral to necromancy, why did Blizzard's employees describe necromancy as an arcane art quite a few times? Do they not understand the implications of their claims?

Oh sweet sisters of mercy, I'm willing to bet that Cemotucu-person-thingy 1,000 dollars that Blizzard's Chronicle essentially retconed necromantic magic being arcane magic, treating arcane magic as something entirely different after I called Sean Dopehead out for his lies.

Last edited by necrophotic; 12-30-2016 at 12:04 AM..
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Old 12-29-2016, 10:15 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagrid View Post
That said, there were allusions to the orcish aferlife as early on as WC2, with Gul'dan's mysterious powers being the results of pacts made with old and vengeful spirits. It's good fodder for speculation, especially with the dubious state of Oshu'gun after BC.
That got reworked into drawing power from the Shadowlands. Which seems to imply those arent Azeroth exclusive
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Old 12-30-2016, 12:01 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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That got reworked into drawing power from the Shadowlands. Which seems to imply those arent Azeroth exclusive
Maybe an elemental plane akin to a 'reality plane', comprehending diverse realms.
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Old 12-30-2016, 12:12 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Quote:
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Maybe an elemental plane akin to a 'reality plane', comprehending diverse realms.
This I have common working theory, yes, especially considering the top of Gul'dan's staff.
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Old 12-30-2016, 12:14 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Elvish ghosts mostly appear if they died sudden, unexpected deaths; that's the case in the Kaldorei towns that got sundered and in the Queldorei towns that fell to the Scourge. I suspect that the spirits didn't realize that they died, leading to an inability to move on.
There are a great deal of kaldorei ghosts on the Darkshore, pretty damn far away from the Well.
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Old 12-30-2016, 12:31 AM
Whitrix Whitrix is offline

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There are a great deal of kaldorei ghosts on the Darkshore, pretty damn far away from the Well.
And they're towns that gut sundered in the WotA.
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Old 12-30-2016, 02:09 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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There are a great deal of kaldorei ghosts on the Darkshore, pretty damn far away from the Well.
Yeah, but what Whitrix said. IIRC, some quests even state that those towns were located right next to the WoE.

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Btw now I honestly think Blizzard just scrapped out the stuff of possession came World of Warcraft and now banshees are just useless fancy ghosts.
Wrath had an Ebon Blade banshee that possessed a couple of vrykul.
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Old 12-30-2016, 04:38 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Yes, I know they were destroyed during the WotA, I'm just stating that there's nothing on Kalimdor that was ever close to the Well.
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Old 12-30-2016, 04:38 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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It could just be the amount of arcane magic in the air when you die. The highborne towns throughout the world seem to have suffered some kind of magical backlash, leading to a ton of ruins populated by nothing but ghosts. Pre-sundering kaldorei had the most magic around, so they become the most disproportionately powerful ghosts.
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Old 12-30-2016, 07:16 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Wrath had an Ebon Blade banshee that possessed a couple of vrykul.
I remember this one, but not the other. Or are they the same?

Interestingly enough, she is a night elf.
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Old 12-30-2016, 07:19 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
I remember this one, but not the other. Or are they the same?

Interestingly enough, she is a night elf.
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Lady_Nightswood
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Old 12-31-2016, 02:08 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Gul'dan was a necromancer, duh.
Remember when Alliance Warlock T9 was named after Kel'thuzad, a necromancer?

I 'member.
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  #25  
Old 12-31-2016, 07:29 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
There are a great deal of kaldorei ghosts on the Darkshore, pretty damn far away from the Well.
I believe the towns (in darkshore) that are infested with ghosts were actually said to have been near the well.

My only explanation is that when the well exploded it teleported towns across Kalimdor like how Dalaran teleported to the broken isles.
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