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Old 03-27-2015, 05:13 PM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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WarCraft 3 B.net Eyeball Why C'thulu is Mongolian - Aka The Art of Fantasy Naming

For the folks who want to know the first question, type "stone" into google translate and select Mongolian as the output. Apparently Ghengis Khan's rebirth will be a bit more...tentacly.

This is the thread for naming/critiquing the names of people, places, and organizations. From your classic, generic "Shadow Knight," to its potential equivalents (the Klaxxi's "Kal'itzal,") and why they were named that way, it's just about having fun with language, made up and real.

If you're wondering about the Klaxxi thing, that's Kal (Tamil for stone) and Itzal (Basque for shadow), smashed together to roughly create the "Stone's Shadow."
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Old 03-27-2015, 05:37 PM
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Personally I don't like to use this method(give a dark character a name that means darkness) because it's basically stereotyping the character. The title should fit the character's profession and behavior, but not the name.
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Old 03-27-2015, 05:42 PM
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Hmm, I tried this but got "чулуу" which transliterates as "chuluu".

One fantasy trend that's become too common is having a surname that's a mishmash of a noun and an adjective. You see it all the time in WoW, though I'm sure it predates that.

Another one is the unnecessary use of apostrophes, which usually indicate something that's omitted. The apostrophe in Gul'dan, for instance, suggests that part of the name has been removed. However, this doesn't seem to be the case in lore.

I suppose there is a real world equivalent for this in the way Americans write some Irish surnames—O'Leary, for instance.
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Old 03-27-2015, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Personally I don't like to use this method(give a dark character a name that means darkness) because it's basically stereotyping the character. The title should fit the character's profession and behavior, but not the name.
It's a variation on Shadow Knights, thus why "darkness" remains as a common theme. The reason it's "Stone's Shadow" is a play on the Heart of Y'shaarj as well as the idea that Knights are monolithic defenders.

I do agree, "Darkheart" or "Dimclaw" are over the top, but if you get more poetic (and outside one language at a time), you can make some interesting assertions.

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Hmm, I tried this but got "чулуу" which transliterates as "chuluu".

One fantasy trend that's become too common is having a surname that's a mishmash of a noun and an adjective. You see it all the time in WoW, though I'm sure it predates that.

Another one is the unnecessary use of apostrophes, which usually indicate something that's omitted. The apostrophe in Gul'dan, for instance, suggests that part of the name has been removed. However, this doesn't seem to be the case in lore.

I suppose there is a real world equivalent for this in the way Americans write some Irish surnames—O'Leary, for instance.
"Chuluu" is as close as any language will ever get to the name, but it's a fun little correlation I stumbled on while researching this evening. Plus, honestly, click-bait brings all the nerds to the yard, and they're like "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."

The "O'Brian" rule is kind of how I see (and work with) a lot of names for non-human/non-euro works. It allows for a little more variation in both grammar and style than would otherwise exist. I do agree though, the combination should only occur when it's appropriate to the group/individual in question. I ran with it for the Klaxxi for that exact reason, otherwise it'd have broken their style/schema.

Other schemas though, definitely don't accommodate it (e.g. see most iterations of the "Dwarf" archetype), and forcing it becomes awkward.
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Old 03-27-2015, 06:23 PM
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Actually in many Chinese stories, the author likes to give the villains a "Nice" name to show the contrast, that is quite funny.
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Old 03-27-2015, 06:33 PM
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WarCraft 3 B.net Eyeball

At least for Warcraft, a lot of character names are just easy pop culture references. Which can be funny sometimes sure but it kinda takes away the immersion of the world seeing Harrison Jones or Croman the Barbarian.

It was super-lucky that they named the leader of Gilneas 'Greymane' though
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Old 03-27-2015, 06:43 PM
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If you're wondering about the Klaxxi thing, that's Kal (Tamil for stone) and Itzal (Basque for shadow), smashed together to roughly create the "Stone's Shadow."
Somehow, I don't think the folks in Irvine were thinking that far ahead. They're more like Jack Sparrow: they make it up as they go. I would be very surprised if this was anything but coincidental.
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Old 03-27-2015, 06:50 PM
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At least for Warcraft, a lot of character names are just easy pop culture references. Which can be funny sometimes sure but it kinda takes away the immersion of the world seeing Harrison Jones or Croman the Barbarian.

It was super-lucky that they named the leader of Gilneas 'Greymane' though
In WC, most of the human characters' names were ok, some other races' name are more stereotyping.
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Old 03-27-2015, 06:56 PM
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Somehow, I don't think the folks in Irvine were thinking that far ahead. They're more like Jack Sparrow: they make it up as they go. I would be very surprised if this was anything but coincidental.
It's not coincidental, because I made it up this evening between beers. The point was more to show that this thread is both about not just reviewing names of others, but creating and critiquing our own.
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:08 PM
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It's not coincidental, because I made it up this evening between beers. The point was more to show that this thread is both about not just reviewing names of others, but creating and critiquing our own.
Ah. Carry on, then. *is enormously impressed by Cantus' knowledge of languages*

Personally, I'd rather make up my own language, but that goes into the "creativity rabbithole" Triumvirate was talking about.
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
It's a variation on Shadow Knights, thus why "darkness" remains as a common theme. The reason it's "Stone's Shadow" is a play on the Heart of Y'shaarj as well as the idea that Knights are monolithic defenders.

I do agree, "Darkheart" or "Dimclaw" are over the top, but if you get more poetic (and outside one language at a time), you can make some interesting assertions.

"Chuluu" is as close as any language will ever get to the name, but it's a fun little correlation I stumbled on while researching this evening. Plus, honestly, click-bait brings all the nerds to the yard, and they're like "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."

The "O'Brian" rule is kind of how I see (and work with) a lot of names for non-human/non-euro works. It allows for a little more variation in both grammar and style than would otherwise exist. I do agree though, the combination should only occur when it's appropriate to the group/individual in question. I ran with it for the Klaxxi for that exact reason, otherwise it'd have broken their style/schema.

Other schemas though, definitely don't accommodate it (e.g. see most iterations of the "Dwarf" archetype), and forcing it becomes awkward.
I've gotten a bit tired of extraneous apostrophes. Here's the explanation I used in the travelogue (warning: long):

Quote:
Everyone thinks that we trolls just love putting random pauses in our names: Vol’jin, Hai’zan, and yes, Daj’yah. That’s why, when people write our names, they drop in an apostrophe to show where you make a brief pause when speaking.

The apostrophe should be there, but not for the reasons they think. An apostrophe can mean different things in Common (and in Orcish, which adopted it from the humans—I’m sure Garrosh is now claiming the Orcish apostrophe has a long and gloried history where it did battle against diacritical and punctuation marks to claim its rightful place). The apostrophe might denote possession and certain plural forms.

It also stands for words that have been omitted. This is why it’s used in trollish (and elven) names. When a troll is born, his mother (advised by the shaman) gives him a full name. This is known only to her, the child, and to the shaman. No one else will ever know. Parents never tell their true names to children, for a child should never have that much power.

Since the true name is sacred (and also takes a very long time to say), the first and last syllables are combined into a single name. This is how others will know him. In the course of life, you might get a kind of nickname and be known by that instead (Master Rokhan’s name, for instance, tells everyone he’s wise in the ways of the spirits—before becoming a mighty a shadow hunter, he was called Tob’da).

That’s why the apostrophe usage in our names is actually correct, even if not everyone knows why. Like I said, elven names are similar, though there the contraction is more for convenience’s sake than to protect something holy—the full name might refer to all the elf’s different titles and relations and so forth. For example, Quel’dorei in its full form is Quelulashanurazsharadorandorei—“Those borne to the high retainers of glorious Azshara” (Darnassian and Thalassian are also both very fond of compound words).

Humans got used to putting in the apostrophes when writing troll and elven names. Yet, as more people learned how to write, they didn’t always get every detail. They just assumed that the apostrophe meant a pause, which is why they started using it for Orcish names.

Look at Gul’dan’s name. In Orcish, “-dan” is a suffix that denotes someone of great power or mastery. There’s a bit of a pause in the pronunciation, but there aren’t any missing words. A more proper way to write it would be Gul-dan, Gul Dan, or even just Guldan. Sure enough, some humans did write it that way, but in the official reports made by intelligence agents, the journals of soldiers, and so forth, most people used the apostrophe. It’s stayed ever since.

You might think it strange to spend so much time dwelling on punctuation, but when you’re stuck on a glorified basket hanging from a ragged balloon that’s being slammed with the full force of a tropical storm, you’ll do what you can to focus on something other than your death.
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:25 PM
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Ah. Carry on, then. *is enormously impressed by Cantus' knowledge of languages*

Personally, I'd rather make up my own language, but that goes into the "creativity rabbithole" Triumvirate was talking about.
I don't honestly know an exceptional amount, I just enjoy researching, picking things apart, and mixing it up until something interesting comes out. Theory and experimentation until everything jives into something more than I could ever have thought before.

Speaking of making up your own...have at it. I'm sure there are names you've been playing around with for your own fiction.

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I've gotten a bit tired of extraneous apostrophes. Here's the explanation I used in the travelogue (warning: long):
Pretty much, yup, that.

@Everyone
But come one folks, this isn't just about discussing how to name, but the names themselves. Didn't you ever want to guess/know how the word "Draenei" came about? Azeroth? What about naming your own planets? People? Characters?

Dive in, get messy, fuck up and have fun. Maybe you'll even learn something fun in the process.
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Old 03-27-2015, 08:11 PM
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Well I know Magni just means great in Latin, so that makes him the great king Bronzebeard. Think its also a Nordic name too.
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Old 03-27-2015, 08:22 PM
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Esso ran into issues in Japan when they tried to set up shop there and ended up having to establish Exxon. The reason, it translated into a close approximation of "Stalled Car". Sometimes language is just weird.
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Old 03-27-2015, 08:26 PM
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Crossed Axes (War2) (low-hanging fruit)

Vykrul = Viking
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Old 03-27-2015, 08:36 PM
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Vykrul = Viking
And this is why the "Title" object is a beautiful thing.
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Old 03-28-2015, 10:47 AM
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Hmm, I tried this but got "чулуу" which transliterates as "chuluu".

One fantasy trend that's become too common is having a surname that's a mishmash of a noun and an adjective. You see it all the time in WoW, though I'm sure it predates that.

Another one is the unnecessary use of apostrophes, which usually indicate something that's omitted. The apostrophe in Gul'dan, for instance, suggests that part of the name has been removed. However, this doesn't seem to be the case in lore.

I suppose there is a real world equivalent for this in the way Americans write some Irish surnames—O'Leary, for instance.
I always presumed the dan bit was referencing a place name. So Gul of dan.
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Old 03-28-2015, 01:48 PM
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Orc Icon (War3)

Thrall = Slave (another easy one)
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Old 03-28-2015, 02:00 PM
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Smeagol and Smaug were both based on the same character: Fafnir.
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Old 03-28-2015, 04:25 PM
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Speaking of making up your own...have at it. I'm sure there are names you've been playing around with for your own fiction.
I could probably fill the rest of the thread with the intricacies of my language project, so I'm not going to. This tread is about names. The important part is to pick a sound that you think produces an interesting look and feel.

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@Everyone
But come one folks, this isn't just about discussing how to name, but the names themselves. Didn't you ever want to guess/know how the word "Draenei" came about? Azeroth? What about naming your own planets? People? Characters?

Dive in, get messy, fuck up and have fun. Maybe you'll even learn something fun in the process.
In writing fanfic, I did a lot of shoving random syllables together. "Vonterat" came about this way. Most of the time though I selected pieces of other character's names. The WoW TCG offered an excellent list back in those days. "Kalin Trueshot" came from "Kalis Truearc," for example. When the TCG didn't have characters of the kind I want wanted, it was off to the wiki. "Alanderas" came from "Alendien" and some other demon hunter I can't recall.
For things truly outside the common experience, though, I made stuff up based on outside sources. For example, "Feloi" is derived from Latin "felis" ("cat") and "eloi," the innocent descendents of the elite in The Time Machine. Both implied something about the people they supposedly were. I am a fan of clever suggestions.

In general, though, you have to find a name that feels right for the character, be that through cultural association or phonology.
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Old 03-28-2015, 05:37 PM
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I could probably fill the rest of the thread with the intricacies of my language project, so I'm not going to. This tread is about names. The important part is to pick a sound that you think produces an interesting look and feel.


In writing fanfic, I did a lot of shoving random syllables together. "Vonterat" came about this way. Most of the time though I selected pieces of other character's names. The WoW TCG offered an excellent list back in those days. "Kalin Trueshot" came from "Kalis Truearc," for example. When the TCG didn't have characters of the kind I want wanted, it was off to the wiki. "Alanderas" came from "Alendien" and some other demon hunter I can't recall.
For things truly outside the common experience, though, I made stuff up based on outside sources. For example, "Feloi" is derived from Latin "felis" ("cat") and "eloi," the innocent descendents of the elite in The Time Machine. Both implied something about the people they supposedly were. I am a fan of clever suggestions.

In general, though, you have to find a name that feels right for the character, be that through cultural association or phonology.
Have at it. All of it. Flood this motherfucker until it's a damn swamp if that's your inclination, because this is about making sure folks have fun creating the best names you've ever heard. Otherwise, we're going to yet more "Renesmee" style craziness in our lives, and we can all agree that's just not right.
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Old 03-28-2015, 06:00 PM
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My current writing project takes place in the present day, so there's not really any fictitious languages involved. I personally don't like having characters whose names describe their personalities (it always feels a bit too artificial for me).

That does tie back to some of what I did in the travelogue. There was a minor character with the last name of Engelschwert. This would literally be translated from German as "angel sword". Engelschwert's job?

Dock worker.
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Old 03-28-2015, 06:05 PM
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Darkmoon Card: Heroism

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The WoW TCG offered an excellent list back in those days.
Yes definitely. In my head-canon all of the heroes on those cards fill in the roles of the player's character in the story. We don't exist in Azeroth but they do.
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Old 03-28-2015, 06:18 PM
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I suppose there is a real world equivalent for this in the way Americans write some Irish surnames—O'Leary, for instance.
Hrm, I always thought that those did leave out a letter. Isn't O'Leary short for 'Of Leary'?

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I've gotten a bit tired of extraneous apostrophes. Here's the explanation I used in the travelogue (warning: long):
The glorious orcish apostrophe refuses to bow before your puny travelogues! It is the spike of the sky, the bringer of orcish might!

Nice explanation in general, but the orcish one feels a bit forced due Drek'thar, who has an apostrophe, but is from a group of orcs with minimal contact with Common.

Given what Warlords of Draenor showed about the ogre empire, maybe the apostrophe is a naming tradition from the ogre empire? Many two-headed ogres seem to follow the naming convention of one name for each head, separated by an apostrophe (which probably just stands for the word 'and'). Since two-headed ogres tend towards casting, and the orcs got cultural ties to the ogre empire, it kinda makes sense for great orcish casters to adopt the naming tradition.
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Old 03-28-2015, 06:26 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Hrm, I always thought that those did leave out a letter. Isn't O'Leary short for 'Of Leary'?
I think that in the original Irish, it's written as Ó, and actually means "son of". I'm not an expert though, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

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The glorious orcish apostrophe refuses to bow before your puny travelogues! It is the spike of the sky, the bringer of orcish might!

Nice explanation in general, but the orcish one feels a bit forced due Drek'thar, who has an apostrophe, but is from a group of orcs with minimal contact with Common.

Given what Warlords of Draenor showed about the ogre empire, maybe the apostrophe is a naming tradition from the ogre empire? Many two-headed ogres seem to follow the naming convention of one name for each head, separated by an apostrophe (which probably just stands for the word 'and'). Since two-headed ogres tend towards casting, and the orcs got cultural ties to the ogre empire, it kinda makes sense for great orcish casters to adopt the naming tradition.
Heh, well the idea was that Drek'thar would be more properly written as Drek Thar or Drekthar.

As for the ogres, I always had the two-headed ogres basically get a compound name. Each name represented one head (in order to function, there'd be a dominant head that figured out ways to pacify or weaken its rival). Of course, I wrote that back in the days when two-headed ogres were an invention of Gul'dan.

The Warlords of Draenor stuff did contradict most of what I wrote for Outland's history. But I knew that'd be a risk when I started, to c'est la vie. Besides, the "alternate world" thing does give me some wiggle room.
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