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  #11676  
Old 03-21-2019, 04:57 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Does what the writer 'intends' really matter?
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #11677  
Old 03-21-2019, 05:15 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Does what the writer 'intends' really matter?
It never really seems to for people who take offense at things, on both sides.
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  #11678  
Old 03-22-2019, 08:06 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Does what the writer 'intends' really matter?
Absolutely, it's just that kneejerk culture often means there's not a difference in reaction which is bad and dumb.
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  #11679  
Old 03-27-2019, 05:41 PM
Feltongue Feltongue is offline

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I'm not saying you need to appease anyone. Just maybe don't say things like 'men are pigs' in such a way as to alienate even those men positively inclined toward feminism and so forth.

EDIT: And in a more general sense maybe try to focus on the positive aspects of a society where people relinquish the dated ideas you and I oppose, rather than relying on 'take that' moments where the plucky stand-in for nascent progressivism kicks in the shit of whichever slimy character has been created to serve as a stand-in for those dated ideals, which is cathartic but doesn't serve the purpose of rallying new people to the Cause.
Why'd you feel alienated by men are pigs in the first place tho?

And the problem is that there's an air of dated ideas being dated but they're still being perpetuated.
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  #11680  
Old 03-28-2019, 02:27 PM
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Why'd you feel alienated by men are pigs in the first place tho?
I'd feel disinclined to hang out with people who think I'm swine.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #11681  
Old 03-28-2019, 02:30 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Pigs can be good boys (and girls) tho
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  #11682  
Old 03-28-2019, 03:21 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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I mean, but that's not true, right? This shit doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's like Wonder Woman throwing the Lasso of Truth around people and complaining about mansplaining.

The things mentioned, the things said, the things happening are extensions of real world pushes for "diversity" that are attacking certain groups. And instead of inclusivity, they spout racist and sexist rhetoric.

Even Miles Morales (I think it was Miles) getting the talk from someone about how it doesn't matter if this was a person helping you and a nice guy, etc, he was still an Old White Dude doing what Old White Dudes Do and taking advantage of you.
I'm not sure what you are asking in the first sentence. And the rest.. I'm not familiar with any of these examples and have no idea what point you are getting at.

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I'd feel disinclined to hang out with people who think I'm swine.
Don't do piggish things and you won't be called a pig. This whole line of conversation stems from the false premise of a strawman feminazi shouting "all men are pigs". Which isn't a real thing anyone is actually concerned about, least of all actual feminists.

Anyway. Seems like a good place to post this video. It addresses some of the issues that SoL in particular has been facing over the last several years.


"... I don't take you at your word, because I cannot form a coherent worldview out of the things you say. So, forgive me if when you tell me what you believe, I don't think you're being candid with me. It kinda seems like you're playing games."

Nailed it. Postmodern conservatism in a nutshell. The most relevant stuff starts around 6:30.
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Last edited by Saranus; 03-28-2019 at 03:32 PM..
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  #11683  
Old 03-28-2019, 03:39 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Don't do piggish things and you won't be called a pig. This whole line of conversation stems from the false premise of a strawman feminazi shouting "all men are pigs". Which isn't a real thing anyone is actually concerned about, least of all actual feminists.
It's not worth condemning feminism over by any stretch, it's not feminism at all. It was a top of the head example I came up with to point out that it is strategically unwise to make people feel unwelcome if you might otherwise bring them to your side through camaraderie.

Some people won't be brought over by any means. Others might be open to your ideals if you approach them correctly, but will, flawed and mortal as they are, reject those ideals if they are presented as accusatory or antagonistic. I don't care how superior your morals are to the enemy's - presenting those benefited by the status quo as absurd and distasteful will not endear you to those benefited by the status quo.

I mean, I'm just saying that I'd rather see a broader range of people learn to accept positive ideals than use positive ideals to damn even those worthy of damnation.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #11684  
Old 03-28-2019, 03:55 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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It's not worth condemning feminism over by any stretch, it's not feminism at all. It was a top of the head example I came up with to point out that it is strategically unwise to make people feel unwelcome if you might otherwise bring them to your side through camaraderie.

Some people won't be brought over by any means. Others might be open to your ideals if you approach them correctly, but will, flawed and mortal as they are, reject those ideals if they are presented as accusatory or antagonistic. I don't care how superior your morals are to the enemy's - presenting those benefited by the status quo as absurd and distasteful will not endear you to those benefited by the status quo.

I mean, I'm just saying that I'd rather see a broader range of people learn to accept positive ideals than use positive ideals to damn even those worthy of damnation.
If that's your entire point, then point well taken. But it seems obvious to me, you attract more bees with honey, etc. Using that example in particular just seemed a bit... loaded.

Certain views and actions should be unwelcome. If these views and actions are inseparable from the person, well then... You must see the conundrum. Do we tolerate intolerance?

The people who benefit most from the status quo are outnumbered by those who are most exploited by it. This is inherent in the hierarchical structures of such systems: the Few, above the Many. We don't need people like them on our side. We need to motivate and show solidarity with those on ours, because I believe that's where the groundswell of true change for the better will come from. Appeasing shittiness won't actually change their minds or bring them to your side. All it does is alienate your side and legitimize theirs.
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Last edited by Saranus; 03-28-2019 at 04:03 PM..
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  #11685  
Old 03-28-2019, 09:50 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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If that's your entire point, then point well taken. But it seems obvious to me, you attract more bees with honey, etc. Using that example in particular just seemed a bit... loaded.

Certain views and actions should be unwelcome. If these views and actions are inseparable from the person, well then... You must see the conundrum. Do we tolerate intolerance?

The people who benefit most from the status quo are outnumbered by those who are most exploited by it. This is inherent in the hierarchical structures of such systems: the Few, above the Many. We don't need people like them on our side. We need to motivate and show solidarity with those on ours, because I believe that's where the groundswell of true change for the better will come from. Appeasing shittiness won't actually change their minds or bring them to your side. All it does is alienate your side and legitimize theirs.
Yes. Yes you tolerate intolerance. And when they act on it, then you say no. Because what is tolerant and intolerance are shifting scales.
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  #11686  
Old 03-28-2019, 10:56 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Yes. Yes you tolerate intolerance. And when they act on it, then you say no. Because what is tolerant and intolerance are shifting scales.
They are acting on it, and many people have died. I'm saying no. Not sure what scale you are operating on..
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  #11687  
Old 03-29-2019, 09:25 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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They are acting on it, and many people have died. I'm saying no. Not sure what scale you are operating on..
They really haven't. 50 people isn't many people. The modern day neonazi's in the united states haven't really killed lots of people, and when they act, that cell gets taken down. Same with confederates.

The same shit with Antifa and other groups like that. When shit happens, they get taken down, but the group as a whole is tolerated/left to it's devices. Like, people like to forget these groups were handing out knives and ice picks and talking about their guns and shit during the Berkley stuff in 2016.

So no, they aren't "acting" on it. Individuals are, and individuals will always do so.

There is a reason we tolerate intolerance. If you don't, the fabric of society splits. It IS splitting. Because, and this will ALWAYS happen, one side will see things a certain way, and everything will be intolerable.

Because, I mean, If we aren't going to tolerate intolerance, that's going to include the Christians. The Muslims, including the ones in the UK that are currently blocking LGBT education in schools, the anti-white folks, the anti-black folks, traditionalists, etc.

Social norms dictate what is tolerable and intolerable, and those change. That is why you tolerate, and not accept. Because you don't, aren't, and won't agree or think everything is ok, or agree with shit, and this is how society works.

It's also why you try and talk to people, instead of throwing them out into the wind, because talking changes minds. Not when you go at them like you are attacking them, mind, then they get defensive.

But chucking them out? They just get opinions reinforced and find a group that drags them further into the rabbit hole.
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  #11688  
Old 03-29-2019, 10:14 AM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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They really haven't. 50 people isn't many people. The modern day neonazi's in the united states haven't really killed lots of people, and when they act, that cell gets taken down. Same with confederates.

The same shit with Antifa and other groups like that. When shit happens, they get taken down, but the group as a whole is tolerated/left to it's devices. Like, people like to forget these groups were handing out knives and ice picks and talking about their guns and shit during the Berkley stuff in 2016.

So no, they aren't "acting" on it. Individuals are, and individuals will always do so.

There is a reason we tolerate intolerance. If you don't, the fabric of society splits. It IS splitting. Because, and this will ALWAYS happen, one side will see things a certain way, and everything will be intolerable.

Because, I mean, If we aren't going to tolerate intolerance, that's going to include the Christians. The Muslims, including the ones in the UK that are currently blocking LGBT education in schools, the anti-white folks, the anti-black folks, traditionalists, etc.

Social norms dictate what is tolerable and intolerable, and those change. That is why you tolerate, and not accept. Because you don't, aren't, and won't agree or think everything is ok, or agree with shit, and this is how society works.

It's also why you try and talk to people, instead of throwing them out into the wind, because talking changes minds. Not when you go at them like you are attacking them, mind, then they get defensive.

But chucking them out? They just get opinions reinforced and find a group that drags them further into the rabbit hole.
It's a lot more than 50, where do you get your numbers? It was 50 in Christchurch alone! How many people have antifa killed? How many people have alt-right white nationalists killed? Put up some numbers to show they are just as bad. I'll wait. I'm not okay with waiting on them to kill more people to have "permission" to stop them. That's ridiculous.
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.
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  #11689  
Old 03-29-2019, 04:50 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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50 deaths isn't many??? What the fuck???
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #11690  
Old 03-29-2019, 08:49 PM
Feltongue Feltongue is offline

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I'd feel disinclined to hang out with people who think I'm swine.
The thing Ruin is having a hard time wrapping his head around and might alienate you at the the first look is close to what Saran said.
Don't be a pig and you don't feel like a pig.
The reality is more like that you do act like a pig and instead of being offended, sit down and think about it cause being a pig is, despite all the shoulder patting that we reached equality, still being rewarded and you might have picked up some of those traits.
See, most of this is as intellectual exercise where the men who get pissed by being called a pig, out themselves as pigs because they can't sit down and think about it. Cause, as I mentioned, a lot of people talk about equality being nice and dandy now ... but it isn't. I know people get upset by the whole privilege talk cause it means bursting a bubble but there simply is a privilege to being male. You won't be cat called. You won't be afraid of someone slipping something your drink. You won't be afraid of a dark park.

if you tell people "be nice to women" there's people who will go "well I am doing that, I mean, I pay for the shitty one room apartment, her food and the 4 kids I put inside her after I talked her out of being a doctor."
Of course it's easier to call the one calling you out a femnazi who just aims at putting you off.

I also do adore the US view on Antifa when it's been a thing in Europe for decades and has done a shit load of curbing Neonazi movements but you picked up on it in the last 2? 3? years and got a raging hard on for people beating back extreme right wing violence cause it just appeared on your radar as that.

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  #11691  
Old 03-30-2019, 11:13 AM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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This whole idea of Antifa being just as bad, or worse than Neonazis and Alt-right terrorists just falls apart completely when you actually take a look at the numbers.

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Over the past 10 years (2007-2016), domestic extremists of all kinds have killed at least 372 people in the United States. Of those deaths, approximately 74% were at the hands of right-wing extremists, about 24% of the victims were killed by domestic Islamic extremists, and the remainder were killed by left-wing extremists [only 2%].
https://www.adl.org/resources/report...states-in-2016

Long story short, number of deaths currently attributable to antifa is 0.

See if you can find even half the numbers of right-wing violent attacks from the left. You can't. Stop giving moral equivalence to the two sides because one side is fighting against white supremacy. Antifa has never murdered anyone, but there have been many murders done by white supremacists. The alt-right is guiltiest when they say, “look at them, we’re not the only ones.” Except that they are. They’re not arguing whether the 'X attack' was actually committed, they’re just trying to bring everyone down in the muck with them. It's the same both sides bullshit that leads people to say "But Obama" when talking about the potential crimes of the current president. They know they have no real argument, so they just try to fuck shit up and muddy the waters and confuse people. So give us some reputable sources and put up numbers. If you can't, then you should really shut up about it.

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men who get pissed by being called a pig, out themselves as pigs
nailed it.
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Last edited by Saranus; 03-30-2019 at 11:22 AM..
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  #11692  
Old 03-31-2019, 07:21 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Looks like the report on the Smollett investigation is out. Seems to be a complete and total exoneration, no criminal activity. The right keeps going on about conspiracy theories regardless, of course.
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  #11693  
Old 04-07-2019, 08:50 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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http://god-empress.tumblr.com/post/1...-just-straight

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The people in the comments are amazing, like, half of them are saying “aren’t these the normal permissions for an fitness app?” And the answer is yes. Of course they are. Your regular fitness app is a takes a ton of data on you in order to function, and that data may or may not be stored with the company for a period of time.

But here’s the thing, when the FBI needs location data on someone, they need a WARRANT to get that information from that company, or that company’s cooperation. Back in the early 2000s, there were a number of companies that simply handed over data to letter agencies like the NSA or FBI, and they got roasted for it by their customers. Don’t fool yourself, the only reason why backdoors weren’t coded into your phones by companies like Apple is because they did the math and realized that the cost of cooperating and alienating their customer base was too high, not because these companies have ethics.

So we live in a climate where companies are promising users security and privacy, and when they don’t it’s a scandal that loses them customers and money. They aren’t playing nice with the FBI, so what is the FBI to do? Easy. Circumvent silicon valley.

There is exactly zero reason for the FBI, as an organization, to make entertainment apps. Educational is maybe in line with past practices, but even when they did stuff like that in the 90s, we called it out for the propaganda it was. This app is absolutely a trojan horse. This is so they can get the data you would normally give to a 3rd party company without a warrant.

Please, ffs, learn internet history. Go take a look at the EFF website and archives. Look up the patriot act and the AT&T scandal with the NSA from around 2004. Lots of people on here were barely children pre 9/11, but you can’t possibly understand surveillance and internet policing until you understand what happened to society and privacy from 2001-2010
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Old 04-07-2019, 10:33 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Old 04-10-2019, 11:09 PM
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https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/11/surv...us-behind.html

We Need To Eat The Rich

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Last year, I got invited to a super-deluxe private resort to deliver a keynote speech to what I assumed would be a hundred or so investment bankers.



After I arrived, I was ushered into what I thought was the green room. But instead of being wired with a microphone or taken to a stage, I just sat there at a plain round table as my audience was brought to me: five super-wealthy guys — yes, all men — from the upper echelon of the hedge fund world. After a bit of small talk, I realized they had no interest in the information I had prepared about the future of technology.

They had come with questions of their own.They started out innocuously enough. Ethereum or bitcoin? Is quantum computing a real thing? Slowly but surely, however, they edged into their real topics of concern.Which region will be less impacted by the coming climate crisis: New Zealand or Alaska? Is Google really building Ray Kurzweil a home for his brain, and will his consciousness live through the transition, or will it die and be reborn as a whole new one? Finally, the CEO of a brokerage house explained that he had nearly completed building his own underground bunker system and asked, “How do I maintain authority over my security force after the event?”




The Event. That was their euphemism for the environmental collapse, social unrest, nuclear explosion, unstoppable virus, or Mr. Robot hack that takes everything down.

This single question occupied us for the rest of the hour. They knew armed guards would be required to protect their compounds from the angry mobs. But how would they pay the guards once money was worthless? What would stop the guards from choosing their own leader? The billionaires considered using special combination locks on the food supply that only they knew. Or making guards wear disciplinary collars of some kind in return for their survival. Or maybe building robots to serve as guards and workers — if that technology could be developed in time.
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  #11696  
Old 04-11-2019, 04:40 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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The future of humanity shall be such as it deserves.
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  #11697  
Old 04-11-2019, 08:41 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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The future of humanity shall be such as it deserves.
No, i'm tired of this 'oh humanity is bad' pessimistic bs, there are like less than a hundred stupid-wealthy people who are full capable of stopping a lot of environmental and social problems but don't because PROFIT, who have, in fact, spread disinformation because PROFIT.

Most of humanity is good and don't deserve having to deal with some rich asshole on the other side of the world poisoning them by dumping garbage in their home or all these other problems.
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Old 04-11-2019, 03:50 PM
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Okay. It is cool.

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Old 04-11-2019, 06:10 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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No, i'm tired of this 'oh humanity is bad' pessimistic bs, there are like less than a hundred stupid-wealthy people who are full capable of stopping a lot of environmental and social problems but don't because PROFIT, who have, in fact, spread disinformation because PROFIT.

Most of humanity is good and don't deserve having to deal with some rich asshole on the other side of the world poisoning them by dumping garbage in their home or all these other problems.
I disagree that most of humanity is good. Most people are too stupid to be good. They're willful and easily manipulated. But there are good people, and the tragedy is that these best will suffer for their selflessness while the worst are protected from the consequences of their excess.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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Old Yesterday, 09:39 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Dear Michelle Obama,

Please stop talking. I am already losing the battle in convincing my parents that Trump is a terrible human being, and people on the left who think and speak like you are not helping. My father is a divorced dad himself. My mother is remarried to someone who is a divorced dad. They believe you are representative of "the left", that you are against them specifically, and that you are stupid.

I understand that Donald Trump says moronic garbage all the time and only gets more popular, and none of us understand why it works for him, but we do understand that it doesn't work for anyone else. So please stop talking.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; Yesterday at 10:17 AM..
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