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View Poll Results: How Does Sylvanas Windrunner’s story arc end?
Bi-factional takedown, Raid Boss 5 16.67%
Alliance takedown 13 43.33%
Horde takedown 3 10.00%
She takes herself off the Board 14 46.67%
Sylvanas Wins 3 10.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 08-01-2018, 04:30 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Default How to best deal with Sylvanas

Blizz has certainly stirred the pot with Sylvanas Burning the World Tree. Facebook seems to be full of Hordies looking to purchase a faction change (nice marketing there), but each one also has replies chastising their weakness and infidelity, defending or even celebrating the Bon Fire. Not really looking to entertain that debate here.

So love it or hate it the question is how should and/or shall this story arc end? I see the following possibilities:

1. SoO 2.0. Bi-factional cooperative effort to take her down, most likely as a Raid Boss. Honestly I’d really rather not go down this route.

2. Alliance take-down, probably through a quest line and/or scenario. There might be mirroring Horde content, but with different objectives, not unlike the War of Thorns. I’m ok with this, but that’s just me.

3. Horde Revolution/Coup. Same as #2, but Horde-side. At the moment I just don’t see that happening. Saurfang is probably the most likely to spearhead this, but he doesn’t seem terribly interested. Vol’jin made his intentions known an expansion in advance.

4. Self Sacrifice: Sylvanas takes herself off the board, possibly leaving some sort of inspirational legacy, maybe even redeeming herself (her redemption would only be acceptable to the Alliance if it involves her Death.

5. Victory. Sylvanas wins. I have no idea how a plot gets to this conclusion and is satisfactory, but I’m not a fan of Sylvanas’s actions.

So what would you have happen? How would you have it happen? What do you think will happen. Vote and then describe how you would end her story below.
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  #2  
Old 08-01-2018, 08:19 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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The Alliance will fuck up by empowering the Old Gods when fighting the Drust, and so Sylvanas will lead the Loa against the armies of the void and save the day. Later on she'll have to resign the mantle of Warchief due to her new, more important position either as war commander against the void, or as some kind of Death entity.

Vol'jin won't ascend into loahood for nothing.
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Old 08-02-2018, 11:14 AM
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The Alliance will fuck up by empowering the Old Gods when fighting the Drust, and so Sylvanas will lead the Loa against the armies of the void and save the day. Later on she'll have to resign the mantle of Warchief due to her new, more important position either as war commander against the void, or as some kind of Death entity.

Vol'jin won't ascend into loahood for nothing.
You just want to see the world burn. Is that it?

@Menel'dirion:
Anything that doesn't end with her dead and reviled:


But in the worst way possible.
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  #4  
Old 08-02-2018, 03:48 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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You just want to see the world burn. Is that it?

@Menel'dirion:
Anything that doesn't end with her dead and reviled:


But in the worst way possible.
We’ll see. Btw, nice to see someone taking advantage of the fact that it’s an open poll. I figured not all of these options were mutually exclusive.

Here’s my scenario for the takedown:
-Anduin develops an unfortunate case of Tunnel-Vision focusing on Sylvanas. He believes that as soon as she’s out of the picture they can have peace.
-Anduin sends an army to Quel’thalas to bring her down. Leading this Army is Alleria and Arator.
-Arator goes down, severing Alleria’s Lifeline against the Whispers of the Void. She goes full Void and single-handedly takes the Isle of Quel’danas. She then corrupts the Sunwell and throws Quel’thalas into shadow.
-Sylvanas is drawn out, and when she sees the second devastation of her Homeland it shocks her. She’s been operating based on the belief that she’s the baddest bitch around. She doesn’t think anyone will go as far as she does to achieve victory. Alleria proves her wrong. She either fights her sister and Vereesa finds a way to get them both to stand down or Sylvanas surrenders without a struggle. Either way it ends with Sylvanas in Alliance custody. She might even end up neighbors with Saurfang. Anduin is deeply troubled with how much collateral damage the Alliance caused on this one.

I’m not sure killing her will stop her........ not saying it won’t happen but Death might not be the end of her Story. I still expect her to bring us into World of Warcraft: Requiem.
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  #5  
Old 08-02-2018, 04:29 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Tbh I just really, really don't want option 1 even though it seems like the most likely outcome. It is a retread and it was horrible the first time around too. But all the signs point to it and Blizz hates to waste an opportunity to turn an iconic character into a loot pinata.

Option 2 can work, the Alliance do deserve their revenge. Option 3 is probably my favorite as it would show the Horde actually learned from history. Sylvanas dying as she would in both those scenarios but the Horde rallying around a better leader and winning the war would probably be the optimal outcome. Option 4 is... well I won't say it can't work there is a universe where Blizz can spin a good tale of redemption for Sylvanas but lets not kid ourselves, it ain't our world She jumped off the deep end long ago and has been swimming ahead ever since, her crimes are past forgiveness.
Option 5 is perhaps the most intriguing option because we've almost never had the bad guy win in WoW, definitely not win the entire expansion and win big. But again the thing is such a story needs to be written well and forget that with nuBlizz. So option 3 remains my favorite.
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  #6  
Old 08-02-2018, 04:33 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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A better idea popped into my head just as I was voting, so there is an extra "Horde takedown" and "She takes herself off the board" that should not be there.

That idea is: Maiev sentences her to "life" in prison.
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Old 08-02-2018, 05:38 PM
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As I said elsewhere I'd go with 2.

Mid-expansion, the Alliance mounts a risky effort to take her down. She's defeated at great cost, leaving the Alliance weakened. It was expected that her defeat would demoralize the Horde and allow moderate leaders to rise.

Instead, the Horde views it as dishonored, and pushes forward the war, causing a tremendous loss to the Alliance.

The war rages on.
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:01 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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As I said elsewhere I'd go with 2.

Mid-expansion, the Alliance mounts a risky effort to take her down. She's defeated at great cost, leaving the Alliance weakened. It was expected that her defeat would demoralize the Horde and allow moderate leaders to rise.

Instead, the Horde views it as dishonored, and pushes forward the war, causing a tremendous loss to the Alliance.

The war rages on.
That may or may not be compatible with my Quel’thalas idea. Still, in basic principle this your plan seems like the best one to me.

One other suggestion: what if Anduin sues for peace right after taking down Sylvanas, believing that without her the Horde will lose the will to fight, but Jaina will have none of it, and takes a leaf out of her father’s book by trying to use the negotiations as a means to assassinate the remaining Horde leadership/dismantle the Horde. Maybe even succeeds in killing a leader or two, and one that we actually like (such as Baine or Lor’themar Theron).
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  #9  
Old 08-02-2018, 09:48 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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That may or may not be compatible with my Quel’thalas idea. Still, in basic principle this your plan seems like the best one to me.

One other suggestion: what if Anduin sues for peace right after taking down Sylvanas, believing that without her the Horde will lose the will to fight, but Jaina will have none of it, and takes a leaf out of her father’s book by trying to use the negotiations as a means to assassinate the remaining Horde leadership/dismantle the Horde. Maybe even succeeds in killing a leader or two, and one that we actually like (such as Baine or Lor’themar Theron).
I also have a Quel'thalas scenario that ends with the Sunwell corrupted, but never thought of making it the same moment that Sylvanas goes down.

As for Jaina. I think she's a character that, no matter how mad she is, she will hesitate to cross the line into villainy. Either someone convinces her to stop, or she looks into her enemy's eyes and faulters, unable to deliver the killing blow. It's her nature.

She's different from Sylvanas, who was already ruthless before she was killed and raised by Arthas. She's conflicted between wanting peace but not thinking it's possible anymore.

Personally, I'd make Jaina meet and fight Thrall, Rexxar and Rokhan. And Chen could be present as well, but he would refuse to fight and step aside. As Jaina fights them, she relives her fathers words. That the orcs would never change, that he said she would understand one day. She relives Theramore, the Purge of Dalaran and so on. She uses magic and beats each of them into the ground, one by one, Thrall, the last one standing, kneels before her and says he's sorry, that he was wrong. That Daelin needed to be stopped, but he didn't need to be killed. That, by killing Daelin, he proved his point. That he followed the orc way, Victory or Death, and in doing so, kept the cycle of hatred. And he says he's sorry. For everything, for Garrosh, for leaving his duties. And asks for Jaina to spare the others, that he's willing to pay the price of his mistakes.

Jaina would raise her hand to strike him, but would not have the courage to do so. And she then collapses, crying in anger. The others rise up, Thrall gestures for them to retreat. He says he will stay and surrender.

Buuuuut... I doubt a scene like that would work in the game.
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  #10  
Old 08-03-2018, 12:51 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I also have a Quel'thalas scenario that ends with the Sunwell corrupted, but never thought of making it the same moment that Sylvanas goes down.

As for Jaina. I think she's a character that, no matter how mad she is, she will hesitate to cross the line into villainy. Either someone convinces her to stop, or she looks into her enemy's eyes and faulters, unable to deliver the killing blow. It's her nature.

She's different from Sylvanas, who was already ruthless before she was killed and raised by Arthas. She's conflicted between wanting peace but not thinking it's possible anymore.

Personally, I'd make Jaina meet and fight Thrall, Rexxar and Rokhan. And Chen could be present as well, but he would refuse to fight and step aside. As Jaina fights them, she relives her fathers words. That the orcs would never change, that he said she would understand one day. She relives Theramore, the Purge of Dalaran and so on. She uses magic and beats each of them into the ground, one by one, Thrall, the last one standing, kneels before her and says he's sorry, that he was wrong. That Daelin needed to be stopped, but he didn't need to be killed. That, by killing Daelin, he proved his point. That he followed the orc way, Victory or Death, and in doing so, kept the cycle of hatred. And he says he's sorry. For everything, for Garrosh, for leaving his duties. And asks for Jaina to spare the others, that he's willing to pay the price of his mistakes.

Jaina would raise her hand to strike him, but would not have the courage to do so. And she then collapses, crying in anger. The others rise up, Thrall gestures for them to retreat. He says he will stay and surrender.

Buuuuut... I doubt a scene like that would work in the game.
It’s a touching scene, but I also don’t think it would work. Besides, I’m still not convinced Thrall did wrong with Daelin. I just reviewed that last battle/chapter, and it wasn’t an execution. It was a battle. Granted, when they came for Daelin, it was their intent to kill him, but even if they were intent on capture, Daelin wouldn’t have allowed it. He literally says he’ll never stop fighting. There was no surrender, no negotiation, no parlay, no terms. Daelin was just as much “Victory or Death” as Thrall. Probably moreso, as I imagine Thrall would have stopped for a white flag.

At any rate, if she’s really “listening now” an ambush at negotiations is literally what Daelin tried to pull during that campaign. I think she should kill Thrall (at this point he’s more useful as a martyr), and then perhaps realize that vengeance isn’t going to bring her peace. She doesn’t even have to do it in cold blood. Just one last meeting that ends up becoming a duel.
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  #11  
Old 08-03-2018, 05:33 AM
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It’s a touching scene, but I also don’t think it would work. Besides, I’m still not convinced Thrall did wrong with Daelin. I just reviewed that last battle/chapter, and it wasn’t an execution. It was a battle. Granted, when they came for Daelin, it was their intent to kill him, but even if they were intent on capture, Daelin wouldn’t have allowed it. He literally says he’ll never stop fighting. There was no surrender, no negotiation, no parlay, no terms. Daelin was just as much “Victory or Death” as Thrall. Probably moreso, as I imagine Thrall would have stopped for a white flag.

At any rate, if she’s really “listening now” an ambush at negotiations is literally what Daelin tried to pull during that campaign. I think she should kill Thrall (at this point he’s more useful as a martyr), and then perhaps realize that vengeance isn’t going to bring her peace. She doesn’t even have to do it in cold blood. Just one last meeting that ends up becoming a duel.
It's hard to say exactly what happened back then based only in the RTS mission. There's always details missing.

But I remember well my feelings when playing that campaign. I was disappointed. While Daelin should not have started conflict, I thought he wasn't entirely wrong. I never felt like the Horde had repaid its victims, it was only trying to redeem its pride.

I remembered how the Alliance captured Doomhammer rather than execute him. And how it had imprisoned the orcs instead of slaughtering them. And thought the Horde needed to have learned that lesson.

(BTW, this is also a reason I loved SoO's end cinematic. Thrall going for the kill, while Varian instead wanted to capture him. It showed everything I thought it was wrong and right about Horde and Alliance.)

Back to the mission, maybe it was impossible to capture him, but there was never any talk of the Horde trying. They went there to kill him, it seemed, and when Jaina is crying for her dead father, Thrall just walks away saying something that could very well be a threat. "Pray we never come back here again. Farewell, sorceress."

In my mind, it saw a spark of the old Horde, and that scene wasn't evil just because their enemy was behaving like... an orc. At that moment, I was certain the Horde would go wrong again.

So, for all these years, I had this idea that the Horde needs to "go back" and "fix that moment" in some way.

The fact that BfA is indeed touching on the Admiral's legacy, remembering him as a hero, and that the Horde is becoming exactly what he expected it to become, I think it's the perfect moment to make things right.
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  #12  
Old 08-03-2018, 04:19 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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I really like your idea, Deicide. I too think either Thrall or Rexxar will die by Jaina's hand, probably Rexxar.

By the way, why don't you come over to the discord? We could use someone positive like you.

As for Sylvanas, one idea I had is that she's imprisoned to Helheim, where she remains as a goddess of her own realm, harmless to Azeroth, fulfilling some sort of purpose there.
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Old 08-03-2018, 06:00 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I really like your idea, Deicide. I too think either Thrall or Rexxar will die by Jaina's hand, probably Rexxar.

By the way, why don't you come over to the discord? We could use someone positive like you.

As for Sylvanas, one idea I had is that she's imprisoned to Helheim, where she remains as a goddess of her own realm, harmless to Azeroth, fulfilling some sort of purpose there.
I actually like the idea of Sylvanas taking over Helheim a lot.
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Old 08-03-2018, 06:26 PM
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I actually like the idea of Sylvanas taking over Helheim a lot.
You know what? Me too!

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By the way, why don't you come over to the discord? We could use someone positive like you.
Do you use it for voice chat, or is it mostly text? I'm kinda shy with voice chat, specially in a foreign language. But if it's mostly text, I can handle it better.
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Old 08-03-2018, 08:22 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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You know what? Me too!


Do you use it for voice chat, or is it mostly text? I'm kinda shy with voice chat, specially in a foreign language. But if it's mostly text, I can handle it better.
It's text, voice chat is entirely optional and I think that part is only used for the roleplay and minecraft channels.
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Old 08-04-2018, 11:54 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Do you use it for voice chat, or is it mostly text? I'm kinda shy with voice chat, specially in a foreign language. But if it's mostly text, I can handle it better.
Almost no one uses the voice chat :p
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Old 08-04-2018, 04:04 PM
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So what would you have happen? How would you have it happen? What do you think will happen. Vote and then describe how you would end her story below.
If the intention is to have another peace at the end of this expansion, I'd go with 1.

If the intention is to have continuing war, I'd go with a combination of 2/3. Saurfang is interrogated/inspired by Anduin and friends and sent back to the Horde as an almost Manchurian Candidate (with some story invented about his escape, which arouses some suspicions given he wouldn't leave during the prison break). He and other anti-Sylvanas elements of the Horde arrange her assassination, or for her to at least be in a relatively vulnerable position if assassination is outside the realm of what Saurfang considers honourable.

The Alliance and anti-Syl Horde elements then successfully kill her in either a raid or just through some quest event. But in the aftermath the Alliance doesn't accept peace with the anti-Syl Horde elements, having learned from the SoO. Their intent is to reject peace until the Horde is disbanded as an entity, with various other conditions imposed upon the member factions.

The anti-Syl Horde elements weren't expecting this reaction given the Alliance's recent history. The pro-Syl Horde elements are obviously incensed. The former continue the war with the knowledge that it is now an existential one for the Horde, and the latter are obviously keen for vengeance. The war continues.
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:44 PM
Al'Akir Al'Akir is offline

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I don't want any of these to happen this expansion. Id like for Sylvanas to do something that justifies Vol'jin making her warchief
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Old 08-05-2018, 03:39 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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A scenario popped in my fucked up mind:

Sylvanas loses. Badly. She loses so badly that she is on her knees at the mercy of the Alliance leaders. The leaders start to converse with each other on a fitting punishment for Sylvanas until one leader steps forth. Greymane. Greymane walks up to Sylvanas and reveals someone behind him, a little Night Elf girl. Finel. Greymane gives Finel his flintlocke pistol, it turns out he had been training her how to use it to prepare for this day. The other leaders are stunned by Greymane's choice and whether Finel can do it, some even question if a child should commit such an act at such a young age.

But they all say nothing, and they watch as Finel gets a taste of what revenge is like. Sylvanas is consumed in blackness at the crack of the pistol. Finel learns an important value the Alliance hold dear, that retribution will come to enemies who threaten their way of life.
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Old 08-05-2018, 11:49 PM
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Don't mess with Finel or she's gonna end you!
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Old 08-07-2018, 02:41 PM
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  • Step 1: Collect super powerful mineral.
  • Step 2: Hoard it away from everyone except those you trust the most.
  • Step 3: Ignite a faction war with a portion of said mineral, alienating everyone from everyone.
  • Step 4: Slowly cede control over to other Horde leaders as a means to ensnare them in the war, while creating a secret hideaway that can act as a base of power.
  • Step 5: Gather disciples and living slaves whose wills have been broken, raid one of the now many inter-dimensional ships available post-Legion.
  • Step 6: Disappear into the cosmos and let Azeroth's Defenders expend uncountable legions of followers to save the nascent Titan/kill the Void Lords.
  • Step 7: Live on as an immortal undead Empress with a cult of willing bodies to use as replacements whenever yours fails.
  • Step 8: Pray to whatever deities exist in the Shadowlands that your choice of planet remains undiscovered long enough for you to discover a way to prevent the eternal suffering of the blank void.

Not Listed: Why Alleria is now Sylvanas' anti-thesis (child of the Void) and thus destined to find her sister and deliver her into an even worse punishment, a physical entombment in the Void despite living on, a fate worse than the apparent horrors of death.

There's the madness of the Void Lords and then there's the madness of the Void sans said Void Lords. At least in the Darkness she had the company of misery and torture. Imagine [un]living endlessly in the Void without anyone to bother you at all.
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Old 08-30-2018, 07:11 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I had an interesting thought today. If Alleria does give into the Void (maybe darkens Quel’thalas), what if Sylvanas saves her......... by possessing her. She goes banshee mode and possesses Alleria, but doesn’t get control. Alleria’s Mind is far too chaotic for that. Instead Sylvanas ends up trapped fighting the Void in Alleria’s head, feeling all that torment and warding off all those voices (she can handle it a bit better as undead).
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Old 08-30-2018, 01:10 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Absolutely not.
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Old 08-31-2018, 02:34 AM
Melorandor Melorandor is offline

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Alliance takedown. Ending it where it all began - Lordaeron.

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
A scenario popped in my fucked up mind:

Sylvanas loses. Badly. She loses so badly that she is on her knees at the mercy of the Alliance leaders. The leaders start to converse with each other on a fitting punishment for Sylvanas until one leader steps forth. Greymane. Greymane walks up to Sylvanas and reveals someone behind him, a little Night Elf girl. Finel. Greymane gives Finel his flintlocke pistol, it turns out he had been training her how to use it to prepare for this day. The other leaders are stunned by Greymane's choice and whether Finel can do it, some even question if a child should commit such an act at such a young age.

But they all say nothing, and they watch as Finel gets a taste of what revenge is like. Sylvanas is consumed in blackness at the crack of the pistol. Finel learns an important value the Alliance hold dear, that retribution will come to enemies who threaten their way of life.
Beautiful.
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Old 09-17-2018, 04:49 AM
Icefrost Icefrost is offline

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No decisive battle. No horde side quest to stand up for her. No captures, no trials. No last stands with banshee screams.
A blade in the night. Discreet, dishonorable and deliberately in blatant narrative disregard of her established ability to defend herself against such things.

And not just her. Someone else too, that most everyone likes, just to show that the people who did this aren't just out for revenge. They're out to take it an arguably unnecessary step further, just like she did.
There's a very valuable, very dead orcish prisoner somewhere in a Stormwind stockade, hanging by a noose tied from a living vine that seems out of place in a prison cell unless someone literally made one grow on the spot. The corpse is charred and black. You can still smell the smoke in the air. One the wall, the words "do you like to watch the flames?" are written in dried orcish blood.

They are written in Darnassian.
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Last edited by Icefrost; 09-17-2018 at 04:57 AM..
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