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  #26  
Old 08-09-2011, 05:47 AM
Wabbajack Wabbajack is offline

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You don't have a NDE during the time you are "dead", but your brain produces false memories after it starts working properly again.

Scientists have explained why and how that happens and everyone who says otherwise doesn't know what he's talking about.
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  #27  
Old 08-09-2011, 08:13 AM
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There are several cases in which the people who had NDEs could tell what people around them(doctors or otherwise) were doing while they were 'dead'(procedures, what they were talking etc.). I personally know such people, including my mom.

It's too early to dismiss the phenomenon when there's still loads of research to do.
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  #28  
Old 08-09-2011, 11:11 AM
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  #29  
Old 08-09-2011, 02:21 PM
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Most near-death experiences can be easily explained, chemicals getting sent to your brains to stop you from the pain or your body 'shortcircuiting'. The reason why many people see it as the same things is probably because it's an image that was put into your mind of how it should look like. Similarly, if you let someone imagine an alien, you'll probably get something along the lines of little green men or atleast something that still looks pretty human.
We know too little stuff about the brain to begin to explain some of those things. The brain is quantum computer we ain't quite there yet.
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:10 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Royalpimp View Post
There are several cases in which the people who had NDEs could tell what people around them(doctors or otherwise) were doing while they were 'dead'(procedures, what they were talking etc.). I personally know such people, including my mom.

It's too early to dismiss the phenomenon when there's still loads of research to do.
Yep, they are called out of body experiences and remote viewing. There's loads of videos and articles you can find if you do a good bit of searching.
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  #31  
Old 08-09-2011, 07:51 PM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

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Yep, they are called out of body experiences and remote viewing. There's loads of videos and articles you can find if you do a good bit of searching.
Not just random out of body experience/remote viewing. I mean during the time people are really clinically dead. No signal from the brain whatsoever and yet people can see and hear the people around their 'corpse'.

Anyway, I can understand why people are reluctant to believe this, especially with all those Astral Projection guides that reek of fantasy but I don't know why some don't even consider further studying the phenomenon. Pretty much of a waste, if you ask me.
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  #32  
Old 08-09-2011, 08:55 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Not just random out of body experience/remote viewing. I mean during the time people are really clinically dead. No signal from the brain whatsoever and yet people can see and hear the people around their 'corpse'.

Anyway, I can understand why people are reluctant to believe this, especially with all those Astral Projection guides that reek of fantasy but I don't know why some don't even consider further studying the phenomenon. Pretty much of a waste, if you ask me.
Oh yes, skeptical inquiry is very handy and I do believe everyone should be very critical of such research before readily believing.

I also believe that it shouldn't be too dismissed outright, it could open the doorway to more intrigueing research as time rolls on.
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  #33  
Old 08-10-2011, 03:53 AM
Wabbajack Wabbajack is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royalpimp View Post
Not just random out of body experience/remote viewing. I mean during the time people are really clinically dead. No signal from the brain whatsoever and yet people can see and hear the people around their 'corpse'.

Anyway, I can understand why people are reluctant to believe this, especially with all those Astral Projection guides that reek of fantasy but I don't know why some don't even consider further studying the phenomenon. Pretty much of a waste, if you ask me.
Clinical dead =/= Brain dead. It is very, very rare to "come back" again once you are brain dead.

And these phenomenons where studied extensively and explained.
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  #34  
Old 08-10-2011, 10:10 AM
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Sensory data is still collected when you're dead unless your sensory organs are destroyed, so it's not that you cannot perceive what's going on, it's that what you perceive does not necessarily reflect reality...which is to say the information is going into your Short Term Memory storage system and from there it's interpreted differently depending on the damage to the rest of the brain. Out of body experiences don't happen, it's entirely your brain using current sensory data alongside its semi-REM state to make sense of data that you've collected in the context most natural to your beliefs.
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  #35  
Old 08-10-2011, 10:24 AM
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^ Closest to what's probably happening. The brain is extremely flexible.
If we could coax the cells of the brain out of G0(State where cells no longer divide. People are looking to change that back into G1) we could do some stuff.
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  #36  
Old 08-10-2011, 11:41 AM
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I feel like debating something. Or a conversation about something scientific. Someone, say something outrageous!
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  #37  
Old 08-10-2011, 11:46 AM
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I feel like debating something. Or a conversation about something scientific. Someone, say something outrageous!
multiverse theory is correct. specifically, many-world interpretation. everything that can happen, does happen, and branches into a different universe.
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  #38  
Old 08-10-2011, 11:56 AM
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multiverse theory is correct. specifically, many-world interpretation. everything that can happen, does happen, and branches into a different universe.
I disagree, and I fucking hate it when they do this in comic books.

On the other hand, Guns of the South was a cracking good read.

And, of course, the Star Trek reboot was outstanding.

But I think we all agree Back to the Future II was the weakest of the trilogy.
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  #39  
Old 08-10-2011, 12:00 PM
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multiverse theory is correct. specifically, many-world interpretation. everything that can happen, does happen, and branches into a different universe.
Personally, I just feel that the evidence thus far brought forth for the multiverse idea isn't conclusive enough for it to be declared true. Maybe in a couple of decades it will be possible to actually measure and test the theory, but at this stage I don't think there's enough data. Right now it belongs in the realm of hypothetical science and fiction.

Last edited by Shaman; 08-10-2011 at 12:03 PM..
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  #40  
Old 08-10-2011, 12:02 PM
Wabbajack Wabbajack is offline

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multiverse theory is correct. specifically, many-world interpretation. everything that can happen, does happen, and branches into a different universe.
That would basically mean that there are no ways for one universe to interact with another one, at least not in a major way or we would constantly see the effects.
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  #41  
Old 08-10-2011, 12:03 PM
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That would basically mean that there are no ways for one universe to interact with another one, at least not in a major way or we would constantly see the effects.
Unless we are the effects. dun dun dunnnn
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  #42  
Old 08-10-2011, 12:23 PM
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That would basically mean that there are no ways for one universe to interact with another one, at least not in a major way or we would constantly see the effects.
depends. it just means our universe isn't interacting with any other. yet.

and it's all just hypothetical theory ofcourse. hopefully it will be proven/disproven in my lifetime. i feel strongly about this theory.

to deepen this shit a bit - fourth dimension is time of our universe, fifth dimension is branched time-multiverse, sixth dimension is bending fifth dimension from one point to another.
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  #43  
Old 08-10-2011, 12:33 PM
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depends. it just means our universe isn't interacting with any other. yet.

and it's all just hypothetical theory ofcourse. hopefully it will be proven/disproven in my lifetime. i feel strongly about this theory.

to deepen this shit a bit - fourth dimension is time of our universe, fifth dimension is branched time-multiverse, sixth dimension is bending fifth dimension from one point to another.
I would be really careful about feeling strongly for the multiverse theory or any scientific concept because down that road leads disappointment. Science does not care about your feelings or anyone elses. Its like how emotionally outraged some people were in 2001 and then 2006 when Pluto got declassified to dwarf-planet.
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  #44  
Old 08-10-2011, 12:36 PM
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to deepen this shit a bit - fourth dimension is time of our universe, fifth dimension is branched time-multiverse, sixth dimension is bending fifth dimension from one point to another.
So, in a universe with only 3, or maybe even 2 dimensions, time doesn't flow?
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  #45  
Old 08-10-2011, 12:43 PM
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So, in a universe with only 3, or maybe even 2 dimensions, time doesn't flow?

depends. there could be universes with two spatial dimensions, but with time dimension.


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I would be really careful about feeling strongly for the multiverse theory or any scientific concept because down that road leads disappointment. Science does not care about your feelings or anyone elses. Its like how emotionally outraged some people were in 2001 and then 2006 when Pluto got declassified to dwarf-planet.
heh, i'm fine with the theory being disproven. that's the way science works. it's just a theory i feel is correct. if it isn't, then it isnt a big deal tbh. "feelings", like you said, aren't worth much in scientific circles.
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  #46  
Old 08-10-2011, 12:45 PM
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Time is not "the fourth dimension" as most people understand it.

The "first three" dimensions are spatial dimensions and inherently different from time. Mathematicians even work with more than 3 spatial dimensions, see the Tesseract for example.
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  #47  
Old 08-10-2011, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Wabbajack View Post
Time is not "the fourth dimension" as most people understand it.

The "first three" dimensions are spatial dimensions and inherently different from time. Mathematicians even work with more than 3 spatial dimensions, see the Tesseract for example.
agreed. time is a whole another concept of dimension. i could picture a universe with even one spatial dimension, but with time flowing.
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  #48  
Old 08-10-2011, 12:50 PM
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agreed. time is a whole another concept of dimension. i could picture a universe with even one spatial dimension, but with time flowing.
Flatland is a novel dealing with the idea of a sub-dimensional universe. Never read it myself, but heard that it's rather good.
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  #49  
Old 08-10-2011, 02:16 PM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

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Originally Posted by Wabbajack View Post
Clinical dead =/= Brain dead. It is very, very rare to "come back" again once you are brain dead.

And these phenomenons where studied extensively and explained.
I may have confused some terms, was in a hurry. Regardless, to my knowledge these phenomenons are still studied and haven't been fully explained yet. What I mean is that in some cases people have seen and heard what was happening around them while there was absolutely no signal from the brain. I don't recall ever hearing a proper explanation for that, only that studies still continue.


Quote:
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Sensory data is still collected when you're dead unless your sensory organs are destroyed, so it's not that you cannot perceive what's going on, it's that what you perceive does not necessarily reflect reality...which is to say the information is going into your Short Term Memory storage system and from there it's interpreted differently depending on the damage to the rest of the brain. Out of body experiences don't happen, it's entirely your brain using current sensory data alongside its semi-REM state to make sense of data that you've collected in the context most natural to your beliefs.
That doesn't explain how people could see what was was happening around them though. Being clinically dead and telling what everybody was doing in the room while having closed eyes is still kind of weird.
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  #50  
Old 08-10-2011, 02:23 PM
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You know what's really frustrating? I'm not a big fan of comparisons like these, but think about this: The TARP bailout received more funding than the ENTIRITY of NASA's fifty year budget. Now you have the United States government planning to cancel the James Webb telescope (a device that should have able to help unravel little mysteries like, oh I don't know, the functions of the Big Bang and the origins of life). That is INSANE.


Here's an idea Congress: instead of threatening financial default, bleeding lives and treasure on sands halfway across the globe and cutting away at the middle-class, how about you comprehend that the advancement of science has lead directly to economic growth in all cases?
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