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  #6626  
Old 06-15-2014, 03:43 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Tauren Paly View Post
But now after the manabomb with garrosh, instead of vol'jin, she apparently is meant to represent the horde going forward, we instead see his followers having mana bombs around for use in conflict. How is this better then anything sylvanas is doing?
Because Sylvanas continued deploying the plague against civilian targets. Gilneas City and Southshore are both civilian population centers, wherein the deployment of the plague is certain to incur even more civilian deaths than military losses. And given that those are basically the two targets against which it was used, it reveals a general intent by the Forsaken to use it for that purpose - wiping out noncombatants - rather than limiting it to a tactical battlefield role.

Moreover, the nature of how the plague works basically necessitates its use for killing large numbers of people without regard for the extent of the damage, as there's little in the way of control over how far its contamination spreads. Its limited capacity for focused targeting makes it inherently designed to kill large numbers of people without caring if they're soldiers or not - in fact it favors killing non-combatants because deploying it against enemy soldiers in the theatre of battle could kill every Forsaken soldier on the front as well.

If Garrosh had dropped that mana bomb on an Alliance army or fort in the field, as terrible as it would have been for the Alliance, it wouldn't have really been a war crime. It would have been an devastating act of war but not a war crime. Sylvanas' use of the plague frankly is, because by necessity the purpose of deploying the plague in both Gilneas and Southshore was effectively to exterminate the civilian populace, forcing any surviving defenders to flee or die in the absence of anything being left to protect.

Last edited by ARM3481; 06-15-2014 at 04:10 AM..
  #6627  
Old 06-15-2014, 03:59 AM
Jiggler Jiggler is offline

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Originally Posted by Tauren Paly View Post
yes but anyone who builds it with the intent for what its used for is on par with the person using it for its purpose. A gun isn't used for peaceful measures in disolving conflict, its used with intent to kill people or flat out killing them. A bomb is the same, you either use bombs for threat to kill, or killing outright.

People here criticize sylvanas for her use of and having the plague on hand as a weapon, and it is a shitty thing she keeps to use, we've seen what it does and its either going to be used as a deterence against those invaders in forsaken lands, or used to flat out kill people, sylvanas kept this after wrathgate, despite seeing what it did to the living, because she knew it would be a weapon she can use. And you expect that from sylvanas, she is fucked up in the head.

But now after the manabomb with garrosh, instead of vol'jin, she apparently is meant to represent the horde going forward, we instead see his followers having mana bombs around for use in conflict. How is this better then anything sylvanas is doing?
This isn't a focusing iris powered bomb and it isn't being used against azerothians but against a force that tries to take over Draenor AND Azeroth. Or it could be used against the Legion. Heck even Jaina used miniature mana-bombs at the isle of thunder...
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Last edited by Jiggler; 06-15-2014 at 05:19 AM..
  #6628  
Old 06-15-2014, 04:06 AM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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Originally Posted by Jiggler View Post
This isn't a focusing iris powered bomb and it isn't being used against azerothinans but against a force that tries to take over Draenor AND Azeroth. Or it could be used against the legion. Heck even Jaina used miniature mana-bombs at the isle of thunder...
Well Jainas a dick now so thats no surprise.
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  #6629  
Old 06-15-2014, 05:48 AM
Yarathir Yarathir is offline

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Originally Posted by Tauren Paly View Post
Well Jainas a dick now so thats no surprise.

To be honest, I still see a difference. The one Garrosh dropped was way more powerful and way more devastating. Plus, it was dropped on a city full of innocent civilians. The plague Sylvanas deployed killed civilians, and contrary to how most civilians in Theramore (I think) were lucky enough to be erased from existence entirely, plague is an extremely painful way of dying. It also turns the vicinity into an uninhabitable wasteland for.. we don't know how long, do we?



Mini Mana Bombs just seem like very strong, effective bombs, good at doing what they're made for. It's a bit different. To me, at least.
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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
At this point, I agree.

Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

Faction war can be done well, but Blizzard has half assed it and it has predictably flopped as a result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotal View Post
It's not that wierd, it's just a fancy name for regular fisting.
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Originally Posted by Volkrin View Post
Well when you put it that way the Alliance has had plenty of fist-pumping moments lately.
  #6630  
Old 06-15-2014, 06:03 AM
Blackearth Blackearth is offline

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Titanic creations?



Source: Nagrand i Grongrond Zone
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  #6631  
Old 06-15-2014, 06:58 AM
RikuEru RikuEru is offline

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Originally Posted by Blackearth View Post
Titanic creations?
So it's named Titanic in English, too.
Strange.
COULD be coming from the Titans - or just "freakin huge".
Don't know which one I would like better.
It would be interesting if the Titans did work on Draenor (we know they did), but just a little, and left these things. Or in a different way, than they did on Azeroth, because it was "just" a simple world, so they were a bit more creative and relaxed, created things more freely. (Because Azeroth was serious business, one great design, because of the Well of Eternity, the Old Gods and all the strange constructs, facilities and other stuff they left us.)

But seeing as it is Blizzard, those things are just "Super savage, titan-created and -enhanced, gigantic, loot-carrying World Bosses/Rares for you to find and kill!" with a sidejoke popculture-reference to the recent Godzilla Movie and other Kaijus.
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  #6632  
Old 06-15-2014, 06:59 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Do people realize that even in RL, the idea of everyone seriously agreeing to refrain from using a type of weapon - and actually following through - is basically less than a century old?

And that even when they have, it's been to avoid the eventuality of everyone lobbing them around rather than to spare the feelings of people who were previously attacked with such a weapon?

Vol'jin would be a moron not to allow the deployment of a mana bomb in circumstances where it's tactically called for. As would Varian, for that matter.
Didn't they ban crossbows or something in europe cause they were too killtacular?
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  #6633  
Old 06-15-2014, 07:30 AM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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omg can you be banned already TP?

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Originally Posted by Quirnheim View Post
http://www.adriacraft.net/images/stories/news/2014/Jun/talador_57.jpg
why fight

look at how beautiful this looks
Draenei cities are so pretty. It's like protoss meets cathedral architecture.
  #6634  
Old 06-15-2014, 07:49 AM
Yarathir Yarathir is offline

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Originally Posted by Quirnheim View Post
[IMG]<flickingamazing>[/IMG]

why fight

look at how beautiful this looks


Oh man, that looks great. I hope they don't ruin it over the course of the expansion to "show how bad the Iron Horde is". They probably will, though. And they were gonna do the same to Auchindoun, right? D:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
At this point, I agree.

Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

Faction war can be done well, but Blizzard has half assed it and it has predictably flopped as a result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotal View Post
It's not that wierd, it's just a fancy name for regular fisting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkrin View Post
Well when you put it that way the Alliance has had plenty of fist-pumping moments lately.
  #6635  
Old 06-15-2014, 08:04 AM
Lutinz Lutinz is offline

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Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
Oh man, that looks great. I hope they don't ruin it over the course of the expansion to "show how bad the Iron Horde is". They probably will, though. And they were gonna do the same to Auchindoun, right? D:
Well they have to do something to show how bad the Iron Horde is otherwise how are we supposed to take them seriously as enemies? It would raise the question why exactly we needed to come the Old Dreanor in the first place.
  #6636  
Old 06-15-2014, 08:17 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by Blackearth View Post
Titanic creations?



Source: Nagrand i Grongrond Zone
The whole ''Draenor is in a pocket dimension'' sounds more and more unconvincing. This is an alternate universe with it's own Azeroth, titans, legion and so on.
  #6637  
Old 06-15-2014, 08:26 AM
Yarathir Yarathir is offline

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Originally Posted by Lutinz View Post
Well they have to do something to show how bad the Iron Horde is otherwise how are we supposed to take them seriously as enemies? It would raise the question why exactly we needed to come the Old Dreanor in the first place.

Yeah, but.. but.. can't we just .. I dunno..



How can you destroy something so beautiful!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
At this point, I agree.

Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

Faction war can be done well, but Blizzard has half assed it and it has predictably flopped as a result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotal View Post
It's not that wierd, it's just a fancy name for regular fisting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkrin View Post
Well when you put it that way the Alliance has had plenty of fist-pumping moments lately.
  #6638  
Old 06-15-2014, 08:27 AM
CosmicGuitars CosmicGuitars is offline

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I think 'titanic' is meant in the literal definition.

a. Having great stature or enormous strength; huge or colossal: titanic creatures of the deep.
b. Of enormous scope, power, or influence: "a deepening sense that some titanic event lay just beyond the horizon" (W. Bruce Lincoln).
  #6639  
Old 06-15-2014, 09:01 AM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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yeah that was what i was going to say.
  #6640  
Old 06-15-2014, 09:03 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Yes, logic. Because it sounds an awful lot like emotion , not logic, is what fuels people's anger about it.

Garrosh using one that vaporized an entire city and its populace was monstrous. The act, not the tool, defines the crime.

If someone builds a lead bullet the size of Cleveland and drops it on a small town, that doesn't turn every rifle on the planet into a WMD and every shot fired into a war crime.

Depopulating an urban center isn't the same thing as blowing up the Dark Portal or a bunch of Iron Horde soldiers on the battlefield.
Theramore was a military target, and according to some fans, Garrosh allowed civilians to escape before dropping it.
  #6641  
Old 06-15-2014, 09:24 AM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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you remember a time when the whole titan thing was more a mystery, where is was just something to think about without much more to it.

you know how how the whole titan theme is forced into every aspect of lore now and you can't look round a corner without titan themes being there, even if it wasn't there before?

Yeah, the definition of milking it doesn't come close to blizzards method of storytelling now.
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  #6642  
Old 06-15-2014, 09:27 AM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Originally Posted by Tauren Paly View Post
Was gonna say the same. So much hyped up about Garrosh using it, alliance tears because he used it to destroy theramore.. but now its ok to use because we know its effective.

Hey, you know what else is effective, atomic bombs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwkyPvlWPM0

Yeah, its ok to use these on others, just not on 'merica. apparently destroying two buildings with people in it is worse then dropping a bomb that wipes out everything and destroys the land for generations to come.
Get bent, weaboo. Vaporizing people is fucking awesome.



That said, any nation not willing to use its full might against an enemy in order to survive, does not deserve to survive. This includes mana/atomic bombs. Devastating and shocking your enemy in order to force a surrender, is a very valid tactic in warfare.
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  #6643  
Old 06-15-2014, 09:52 AM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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Originally Posted by Ganishka View Post
Get bent, weaboo. Vaporizing people is fucking awesome.
I believe its spelled Weeaboo and I don't honestly give a shit about anime. Funny you seemed to know the right link to find though.

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  #6644  
Old 06-15-2014, 10:53 AM
Anasterian Anasterian is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Because Sylvanas continued deploying the plague against civilian targets. Gilneas City and Southshore are both civilian population centers, wherein the deployment of the plague is certain to incur even more civilian deaths than military losses. And given that those are basically the two targets against which it was used, it reveals a general intent by the Forsaken to use it for that purpose - wiping out noncombatants - rather than limiting it to a tactical battlefield role.

Moreover, the nature of how the plague works basically necessitates its use for killing large numbers of people without regard for the extent of the damage, as there's little in the way of control over how far its contamination spreads. Its limited capacity for focused targeting makes it inherently designed to kill large numbers of people without caring if they're soldiers or not - in fact it favors killing non-combatants because deploying it against enemy soldiers in the theatre of battle could kill every Forsaken soldier on the front as well.

If Garrosh had dropped that mana bomb on an Alliance army or fort in the field, as terrible as it would have been for the Alliance, it wouldn't have really been a war crime. It would have been an devastating act of war but not a war crime. Sylvanas' use of the plague frankly is, because by necessity the purpose of deploying the plague in both Gilneas and Southshore was effectively to exterminate the civilian populace, forcing any surviving defenders to flee or die in the absence of anything being left to protect.
There is no rationalizing nor explaining nor use of common sense that will abate the whiny. Not even your glory can overpower their innate need to complain. They live solely to bitch.

Nothing can stop them.
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I think I could go down to McDonalds, order a strawberry milkshake, take the bus to the park, enjoy the weather, and then go home, and it'd still be enough to somehow piss off alliance players.
  #6645  
Old 06-15-2014, 11:48 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Speaking of Titan stuff:



Titan artifact the dwarves unearthed in Bastion Rise. Not sure if its connected to all the dwarves there having since been killed by goren and tol'vir (still not sure what the tol'vir are placeholders for).
  #6646  
Old 06-15-2014, 11:51 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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There is no rationalizing nor explaining nor use of common sense that will abate the whiny. Not even your glory can overpower their innate need to complain. They live solely to bitch.

Nothing can stop them.
Or, when using logic and common sense, we're able to pick apart Blizzard's poor handling of the faction conflict. But don't let that stop you from patronizing others.
  #6647  
Old 06-15-2014, 12:21 PM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Titan artifact the dwarves unearthed in Bastion Rise. Not sure if its connected to all the dwarves there having since been killed by goren and tol'vir (still not sure what the tol'vir are placeholders for).
Maybe the tiger race?
  #6648  
Old 06-15-2014, 12:50 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Maybe the tiger race?
The Saberon/tiger race is already using their models in the game, as shown by those Talador screenshots.
  #6649  
Old 06-15-2014, 01:04 PM
Yarathir Yarathir is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Speaking of Titan stuff:



Titan artifact the dwarves unearthed in Bastion Rise. Not sure if its connected to all the dwarves there having since been killed by goren and tol'vir (still not sure what the tol'vir are placeholders for).

Tol'vir might just be Genesaur PHs. Maybe the Primals (plant dudes) are Eonar creations. Also.. you know that where there is Titan stuff, there is Old God stuff. Muahaha.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
At this point, I agree.

Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

Faction war can be done well, but Blizzard has half assed it and it has predictably flopped as a result.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotal View Post
It's not that wierd, it's just a fancy name for regular fisting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volkrin View Post
Well when you put it that way the Alliance has had plenty of fist-pumping moments lately.
  #6650  
Old 06-15-2014, 01:21 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
Tol'vir might just be Genesaur PHs. Maybe the Primals (plant dudes) are Eonar creations. Also.. you know that where there is Titan stuff, there is Old God stuff. Muahaha.
Genesaur mobs are already using magnataur placeholders though.
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