We don't really have any MU draenei going over, do we? Even than they're a rather small population anyways, so their impact wouldn't be that great. Of course the AU draenei die; people die in war, and against heavily armed Iron Horde they're bound to die. It at least somewhat shatters the illusion of invincibility if we could have people die. I wish more orcs died on our side tbh to give that.

I applaud your reason.

Still I hope that Maraad's death is not intentional.

he dies

edit: skull: it's mostly just the player character if he/she is a draenei and Maraad who go over, draenei wise.

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Of course they are not doing anything yet we are the first people to come through the portal.. So if in the future as in the first major patch we get the likes of Varian and Jaina coming through what makes you think Velen will not given they have given his AU counterpart a great heroic death?

Also don't tell me you would not be pissed off if Varian or Anduin was to die and only Aggra did on the Horde.. There would be a freaking huge shitstorm this is not the time where everyone dislike Varian due to being a douche.

People were angry that the Iron Horde was Orcs again. Because we haven't had those as bad guys in a while. People were also angry about the Iron Horde being a rehash even when ignoring SoO and it's build up. People were angry, too, about the Iron Horde being not a big enough threat, but quite frankly they're a bunch of green cavemen that doesn't even have their fel augmentation this time, so OF COURSE they're not going to be a big threat. Killing off Draenei? That's like Nelson making Milhouse hitting himself, everyone can kill Draenei. And ignoring that they also don't feel like a big enough threat because Blizzard keeps deleting their presence all throughout Draenor, filling it's place with walking plantlife and tigermen and hippos, because if Draenor needs anything it's hippos, right, and yet these green fuckers still manage to slaughter a bunch of Draenei, because every asshole can slaughter Draenei, that's apparently the entire point of the Draenei. "Fuck these assholes" is apparently their new idea of Draenei Lore.

Exactly, so the casualties have to come from some where in order to make the Iron Horde seem like a credible threat. I would rather more deaths come from humans but what can you do.

They lost enough in Northrend and Pandaria.

More the reason I said "fuck the Iron Horde being made to look like a threat." is that, in trying to make them look threatening, they destroyed cool places, like Shattrath. Yet at the same time, they don't hesitate to negate and kill that very same feeling of threat with Ashran.


Can't have your cake and eat it, too, Blizzard. Can't destroy shit to make a villain look like a threat, and expect people to still think they're a threat when, on the other side of the continent, detached from the main landmass, a bunch of Alliance and Horde don't find them quite threatening enough to make some fucking peace and stop pissing away resources over a small island that has nothing to do with WoD.

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True enough but they keep coming back and are pushed to being the "face" of the Alliance, much as orcs are. Let them take the heavy hits like orcs often do, though again the death of the AU draenei and all of that doesn't bother me. It actually gives a backbone to the Iron Horde threat (and I do like Blackhand kills 2 lore characters).

What's the use in making something look like a credible threat if you're going to contradict that very same feeling by having the Alliance and Horde waste resources and precious soldiers (that they apparently don't need to fight the Iron Horde) on a fight on a small, inconsequential island that makes no sense.


You're basically back to square one, and now people just feel as if you thrashed these draenei buildings for the hell of it, or because, as Rotal so eloquently mentioned before: "because fuck these assholes".

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When Humans die people would shout out about why Orcs never died just the same amount it is always the case. When it is another Alliance race they blame Humans in a similar fashion... It is upsettingly true but this massive need for balance is why shit like Taylor dying has to happen this expansion.

Humans are the most played race in the game and have been since release (i think that is correct just like the most played Horde race is Blood Elf).

Oh ill agree the entire idea of Ashran is dumb as sin from a lore standpoint. Blizzard trying to verify it as something that's actually going on rather than what it truly is (A place to simply PvP) hurts the entire idea of the expansion, and frankly im going to try ignore the lore implications of Ashran.

I don't think we should think too much about the Ashran-conflict, it's just there for the PVP'ers, not so much for the loreseekers.

Orcs are dying left and right. True most are evil but that's because orcs are jackasses generally. It's unfortunate that it feels like Blizzard is wasting characters but they've put themselves in a hole at this point.

Thankfully people seem to be enjoying it so far going by the Twitterverse . I do wonder how it will hold up as the expansion goes on and with a larger presence of players being there while the fighting is going on. I am still very excited for Ashran as i was prior even though i am not so happy about it being the capital city for each faction (also the Lore aspect).

So in an expansion that's meant to be beyond the faction war, the first thing that happens is for the faction capitals to be right next to a PvP zone, promoting more faction war?

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We will not see the ettin in Draenor (WoD).



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Have you only just learned of this or something?..

I am fine with them bringing the PvP in with the Lore if it gets people more involved just have it make sense which it does not in this case unless they make the player realize this is a isolated incident which we are only there for the ride. The changing of the capitals was the real issue as it makes the place seem more central to the story.

Clearly because they live on the ogre continent mainland!


For every great decision or lore point Blizz introduces this expansion, they do two or three stupid things. No flight, moving the capitals, closing up Karabor, emphasizing the damn faction war again, etc. Oversaturation of humans wasn't something I expected but I still think things look pretty draenei-centric, which is good. I fell like things are being blown way out of proportion by people who aren't even in the beta itself.

Now when the servers stabilize and stop being so damn laggy, I can finish Shadowmoon...

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So where do the Ettins fit in then?

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Again. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. If they didn't want people to "think about it', they shouldn't have put the main faction hubs right next to it, on the very same island. After that, you can't put it into your own, separate bubble. I explained this many time. Ashran (and its existence in the story) is being smeared in our faces. This unlike Wintergrasp (which was still more avoidable), Tol Barad, or anything else.


If they don't want that contradiction addressed and criticized, they should be a bit less stupid. They don't need any defending here. They knew what effect this would have.


This, and what I mentioned above.

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I think ettins only lives in Azeroth

Lack of Ettin is dumb. But then again their use in Cata was dumb. Their inclusion in the locations they were used was dumb. Now ignoring their back story and instead adding countless other types of giants... is dumb.

Not according to the lore, but then again, who the fuck knows anymore. Ogres also I guess come from Azeroth. Gettin' real tired of the World Team's sloppy world design.

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If we never see an Ettin again, I'll be happy. Always hated them, never really understood the need for them.

Well looks like we just retconned their origin and inclusion so, you got your wish.

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