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  #7601  
Old 01-28-2019, 05:50 PM
Fenixhart Fenixhart is offline

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I'll never understand how it Took Baine doing the biggest ballsiest thing he ever did in his entire time of being a character and now people are saying he's unsavlagable? After numerous retcons and story beats that did nothing but flay his character alive prior?

What is it y'all even want at this point. I cant make heads or tails of it.
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  #7602  
Old 01-28-2019, 05:58 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Originally Posted by Fenixhart View Post
I'll never understand how it Took Baine doing the biggest ballsiest thing he ever did in his entire time of being a character and now people are saying he's unsavlagable? After numerous retcons and story beats that did nothing but flay his character alive prior?

What is it y'all even want at this point. I cant make heads or tails of it.
Because no one wanted this.

Its him again only reacting when his human friends on the Alliance are in danger and again ignoring the suffering of the Horde, he even kills Horde soldiers.
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It's really been a case of Blizzard shitting on the Alliance and Horde storyline, but with the added bonus of the Alliance fanbase requesting to shit further on the Horde fanbase.
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  #7603  
Old 01-28-2019, 06:32 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Fenixhart View Post
I'll never understand how it Took Baine doing the biggest ballsiest thing he ever did in his entire time of being a character and now people are saying he's unsavlagable? After numerous retcons and story beats that did nothing but flay his character alive prior?

What is it y'all even want at this point. I cant make heads or tails of it.
People will always complain. But I think Baine is manning up, finally, and I'm hopeful that he will do something really badass ahead.

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Because no one wanted this.

Its him again only reacting when his human friends on the Alliance are in danger and again ignoring the suffering of the Horde, he even kills Horde soldiers.
I guess I'm no one, then.

Baine is doing the right thing. There was a time that Anduin or Jaina would try everything for peace, now it's the turn for someone on the Horde to actually pick up that role.

----------------------

By the way, Taliesin and Evitel have scored a (seemly very juicy) lore interview with Jeremy Feasel. While the full interview will only be released some time along the coming week, they previewed a question where Feasel says that some of the Island Expedition plot hooks (the quests from those items that you can collect) will be picked up and continued within BfA.
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  #7604  
Old 01-28-2019, 07:57 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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[QUOTE=Deicide;1623321I gu
Baine is doing the right thing. There was a time that Anduin or Jaina would try everything for peace, now it's the turn for someone on the Horde to actually pick up that role.[/QUOTE]

Baine has always helped the Alliance at the expense of the Horde, especially the poor tauren since Tides of War where he sided with the people who firebombed his civilians and genocided a tribe.

The Horde mains here like me and Mutterscrawl have hated it for years
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It's really been a case of Blizzard shitting on the Alliance and Horde storyline, but with the added bonus of the Alliance fanbase requesting to shit further on the Horde fanbase.
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  #7605  
Old 01-28-2019, 08:27 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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People will always complain. But I think Baine is manning up, finally, and I'm hopeful that he will do something really badass ahead.



I guess I'm no one, then.

Baine is doing the right thing. There was a time that Anduin or Jaina would try everything for peace, now it's the turn for someone on the Horde to actually pick up that role.

----------------------

By the way, Taliesin and Evitel have scored a (seemly very juicy) lore interview with Jeremy Feasel. While the full interview will only be released some time along the coming week, they previewed a question where Feasel says that some of the Island Expedition plot hooks (the quests from those items that you can collect) will be picked up and continued within BfA.
Baine manning up would require him actually standing up against Sylv instead of just helping the Alliance.

I'm tired of Saurfang and Baine doing things that help the Alliance and hurt the Horde, or doing NOTHING, instead of just FIGHTING AGAINST THE EVIL SHIT IN THE HORDE THEMSELVES.

It's Sickening.


Island expedition lore is at least halfway decent so that's fine.
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  #7606  
Old 01-28-2019, 09:48 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Besides that Baine was supposed to be a Horde hero not an Alliance Hero.

There was a big event planned in Cataclysm where Baine reclaimed the Barrens and beat back the invading Alliance soldiers, we know because of the lines are still in the game.

It got cut and Tides of War gave us slime ball coward Baine who says his civilians deserve to be firebombed and then exiles a bunch of beloved NPCs including tauren who have long supported him simply for defending against a hostile army trying to invade Mulgore. He then gave intel to Jaina allowing Theramore to ambush and kill more Horde soldiers.

After Tides of War, Baine never recovered and has since never fought the Alliance without being forced to.

Oh right..he has no problem massacring Horde soldiers or even letting innocent tauren die.

The Barrens warfront was his last chance to be a Horde hero and the writers of this disaster of an expansion blew it.
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It's really been a case of Blizzard shitting on the Alliance and Horde storyline, but with the added bonus of the Alliance fanbase requesting to shit further on the Horde fanbase.
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  #7607  
Old 01-28-2019, 10:38 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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The Forsaken are members of the Horde. Showing concern for the lack of free will of a prospective member is just as much about helping the Horde as it is about helping the Alliance, if not more. Notice the lack of complaints from him when all the other humans and night elves were raised, despite this going against his culture. Could it be because those undead (supposedly) have free will and freely chose to serve Sylvanas and the Horde?

But I suppose that it's easier to continue hating Baine instead of having to acknowledge that, for all his faults, the other Horde heroes are far, far worse. Like Rexxar, for example.

(I am still convinced that those tauren you speak of were exiled not for their actions during the Cataclysm expansion but for continuing to engage with Alliance forces after a ceasefire pact ha been agreed on, in the time between expansions. Otherwise, it makes no sense for the Alliance to be so surprised by Garrosh's attack on Theramore. But Cataclysm lore is messy, so who knows?)
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  #7608  
Old 01-28-2019, 10:56 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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He is a Horde hero. Many people just seem to think he shouldn't give a damn about his people being used as fodder for the Horde's wars. And seem to have bought into the moronic idea that anything and everything must be either for the Horde or for the Alliance. He's the tauren High Chieftain, not the Horde's Director of Tauren Affairs.

He's continuing the legacy of his father, who literally died fighting to keep the Horde from attacking the Alliance. Not to save Alliance lives, but to save tauren lives. A legacy that, by all accounts, the vast majority of his own people seem to support. Because as tragic as the losses in Barrens were, letting it become a taking-off point for feeding their people into the meat grinder of unending war was even worse.

Just because people choose to think the tauren should be like orcs with horns doesn't make them so. A scant few tauren take issue with Baine's leadership, because his worldview - and his father's - are very much in keeping with the way most tauren seem to think.

Last edited by ARM3481; 01-28-2019 at 11:03 PM..
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  #7609  
Old 01-28-2019, 11:11 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
The Forsaken are members of the Horde. Showing concern for the lack of free will of a prospective member is just as much about helping the Horde as it is about helping the Alliance, if not more. Notice the lack of complaints from him when all the other humans and night elves were raised, despite this going against his culture. Could it be because those undead (supposedly) have free will and freely chose to serve Sylvanas and the Horde?
Derek was not raised as a forsaken but as a weapon against the Alliance just like abominations and the skeletons created by Dark Arrows.

And Baine had no problem with Marshall Valentine being enslaved and killed.

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But I suppose that it's easier to continue hating Baine instead of having to acknowledge that, for all his faults, the other Horde heroes are far, far worse. Like Rexxar, for example.
All the Horde heroes are written terribly in BFA, however this doesn't change that Baine has been written as an Alliance member in all but name since Tides of War, a shitty novel brought on by Mists of Pandaria.

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(I am still convinced that those tauren you speak of were exiled not for their actions during the Cataclysm expansion but for continuing to engage with Alliance forces after a ceasefire pact ha been agreed on, in the time between expansions. Otherwise, it makes no sense for the Alliance to be so surprised by Garrosh's attack on Theramore. But Cataclysm lore is messy, so who knows?)
There was a ceasefire.

An Alliance general literally committed genocide against the native tauren and got promoted for it, that wouldn't have happened if there was any ceasefire.

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He is a Horde hero.
Horde heroes don't side against their own people to kiss the ass of the army butchering them.

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
He's the tauren High Chieftain, not the Horde's Director of Tauren Affairs.
You continually gloss over Baine trying to make peace with an army that wiped out a tauren tribe(the Stonespire) with no provocation including civilians.

It wasn't Baine that protected Mulgore from being invaded, it was people like Kirge Sternhorn, who this supposed "Horde Hero" exiled

Baine has betrayed his position by putting the wellbeing over the alliance over the wellbeing of the tauren tribes.

He is no hero to the Tauren, only a disgrace to them and Cairne's name.

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He's continuing the legacy of his father, who literally died fighting to keep the Horde from attacking the Alliance.
Compelte and total kodoshit, Cairne dueled Garrosh because he thought Garrosh had ordered the killing neutral druids(it was actually done by the Twilight's hammer).

Cairne was all for fighting the Alliance and you don't know tauren lore.


Remember Warcraft III? Outside of Golden!Baine, Tauren do not stand idly and apologize while their enemies massacre them.
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It's really been a case of Blizzard shitting on the Alliance and Horde storyline, but with the added bonus of the Alliance fanbase requesting to shit further on the Horde fanbase.

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  #7610  
Old 01-29-2019, 01:23 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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The issue with the Horde's story is that it is actually two incompatible stories, Scourging with Sylvanas and being Conan with most everyone else. No, make that three stories since the Horde proper part is also split in two, Thrall's redeemed Horde which tends to flip back into Old Horde mode on a whim.

And having all these incompatible stories muscling each other around ofc creates a schizophrenic and unsatisfying end result.
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  #7611  
Old 01-29-2019, 02:03 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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It's a pretty simple matter: The Horde started both of the last two wars. Both of those were needless, carried out by crazy Warchiefs. Baine understands there will be more deaths from his people (and of all Horde races) by fueling these wars.

If the Horde had followed Baine's ideals, it would have had way more prosperity. For Baine, "For the Horde" does not mean "For the Warchief". He knows the Alliance isn't the enemy. He knew first-hand that there were voices asking for peace in the Alliance, just as he wants it.

So I'm glad that he's finally willing to act on what he believes rather than be a silent lackey of evil tyrants.
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  #7612  
Old 01-29-2019, 03:16 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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What island expedition lore?

the thing is they cant make baine into a horde character.

He already allied with the alliance thanks to golden in her books. (shattering tides of war etc) he is doing it because he is friends with jaina (who has likely killed alot of taurens ) he isnt doing this and saying "I know we are enemies but This would be bad honor" he is doing it because "its wrong to kill your enemies leaders in a war"

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  #7613  
Old 01-29-2019, 03:23 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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There are Horde fans who dislike this or that thing about the Horde because it does not adhere to the principles they want the faction to follow, there are Alliance fans who dislike this or that thing about the Alliance because it does not adhere to the principles they want the faction to follow, but that does not strengthen their argument one bit despite their belief it does.
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  #7614  
Old 01-29-2019, 09:56 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
It's a pretty simple matter: The Horde started both of the last two wars. Both of those were needless, carried out by crazy Warchiefs. Baine understands there will be more deaths from his people (and of all Horde races) by fueling these wars.

If the Horde had followed Baine's ideals, it would have had way more prosperity. For Baine, "For the Horde" does not mean "For the Warchief". He knows the Alliance isn't the enemy. He knew first-hand that there were voices asking for peace in the Alliance, just as he wants it.

So I'm glad that he's finally willing to act on what he believes rather than be a silent lackey of evil tyrants.

I'm pissed off because Baine STILL IS THE LACKEY OF AN EVIL TYRANT, He didn't do anything that would actually STOP SYLVANAS, he, in fact, DID EXACTLY WHAT SYLVANAS WAS PLANNING TO DO

It's STUPID

I am tired of our 'good guy' characters only being good because they help the alliance or piss and moan about how evil the other folks in the faction are, without doing anything FOR the good side or AGAINST the evil aspect of the Horde.
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  #7615  
Old 01-29-2019, 10:45 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Derek was not raised as a forsaken but as a weapon against the Alliance just like abominations and the skeletons created by Dark Arrows.
Tat may have been Sylvanas's intentions, but Derek, unlike abominations and skeletons, is not a mindless construct. He is the same kind of undead as most of her other Forsaken subjects.

Had he not stood up for Derek it would have set a precedent that would have allowed Sylvanas to simply mind-control any Forsaken who disagree with her.

Most Forsaken may not care about the plight of Derek because they are not in his shoes, but to protect their rights as members of the Horde, his must be protected too.

In fact, one could say that all intelligent undead raised by Sylvanas automatically become citizens of the Horde and are under its protection, unless they reject Sylvanas's offer to join the Forsaken. And even then, the core tenets of the Forsaken, the principle on which Sylvanas founded her nation, should mean that she has to respect that choice and not resort to mind-control. You and I, we both know that she couldn't actually care less about their freedom, but that is the image she is trying to sell the Forsaken and the Horde.

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And Baine had no problem with Marshall Valentine being enslaved and killed.
Derek is the first confirmed instance of Sylvanas using mind-control.

In my opinion, it is likely that the great majority of undead that were raised by her, instead of simply freeing themselves from the control of the Lich King, only serve her through mind control, indoctrination or other kinds of manipulation.

However, that has never been confirmed inside or outside of the game. Baine can only react to thinks he has knowledge of.

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There was a ceasefire.
Alright, thank you for confirming that.

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An Alliance general literally committed genocide against the native tauren and got promoted for it, that wouldn't have happened if there was any ceasefire.
I am sorry, but I do not understand what you are saying here.

In any case, the Stonespire tauren were driven from Bael Modan many years before the Cataclysm. Whatever may have led to his promotion to Head General, it likely was something far more recent. Like, for example, his service during the Cataclysm war.

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Horde heroes don't side against their own people to kiss the ass of the army butchering them.

It wasn't Baine that protected Mulgore from being invaded, it was people like Kirge Sternhorn, who this supposed "Horde Hero" exiled.

Baine has betrayed his position by putting the well being over the alliance over the well being of the tauren tribes.
Baine's duty, first and foremost, is the preservation of tauren lives. If that means making peace with people like Twinbraid, instead of allowing his people to take vengeance, then that is something he has to do for the greater good of his people.

Or are you implying that the tauren taking vengeance during a ceasefire would not lead to reprisal from the Alliance?

Would you have rather have had him lead his people straight to hell?

Like Arm said, tauren are not bovine orcs. Anyone who would make warmongers out of them... I have to wonder how well they know the race.
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  #7616  
Old 01-29-2019, 10:58 AM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Tat may have been Sylvanas's intentions, but Derek, unlike abominations and skeletons, is not a mindless construct. He is the same kind of undead as most of her other Forsaken subjects.
Incorrect.

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Derek is the first confirmed instance of Sylvanas using mind-control.
Complete and utter kodoshit.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blackthorn

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mug%27thol

Then there's Abominations which as Forsaken quests are sometimes intentionally lobotomized so they don't remember their previous lives.

She also did the same to Marshall Valentine and sent him to his death, which Baine didn't care about.

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Alright, thank you for confirming that.
There was no ceasefire, you made that up.

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
I am sorry, but I do not understand what you are saying here.

In any case, the Stonespire tauren were driven from Bael Modan many years before the Cataclysm.
There would be no ceasefire with an Alliance general committing genocide.

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Whatever may have led to his promotion to Head General, it likely was something far more recent. Like, for example, his service during the Cataclysm war.
His service in the Cataclysm was killing goblin civilians because they were an easy target. He is a cowardly war criminal who only ever attacked Horde civilians and never military targets.

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Baine's duty, first and foremost, is the preservation of tauren lives. If that means making peace with people like Twinbraid, instead of allowing his people to take vengeance, then that is something he has to do for the greater good of his people.
You never read the quests, Twinbraid would never stop killing Horde civilians and had no remorse for his actions.

You are literally defending war crimes.

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Would you have rather have had him lead his people straight to hell?
You are the one saying Baine said exile widowers who lost their wives to Alliance soldiers like Kirge Sternhorn and longtime friends like Jorn Skyseer for defending the gates of Mulgore.

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Like Arm said, tauren are not bovine orcs. Anyone who would make warmongers out of them... I have to wonder how well they know the race.
You never played Warcraft III, did you? You know nothing about tauren, they have always been a warrior race.


Link again because you aren't listening.
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It's really been a case of Blizzard shitting on the Alliance and Horde storyline, but with the added bonus of the Alliance fanbase requesting to shit further on the Horde fanbase.
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  #7617  
Old 01-29-2019, 11:19 AM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
In any case, the Stonespire tauren were driven from Bael Modan many years before the Cataclysm. Whatever may have led to his promotion to Head General, it likely was something far more recent. Like, for example, his service during the Cataclysm war race.
The Stonespire weren't just 'driven away', they were completely slaughtered by the dwarves of Bael Modan, with only one tauren escaping. After completing a quest to help him get revenge, it's never brought up again anywhere.
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  #7618  
Old 01-29-2019, 11:22 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Blackthorn and Mug'thol are not Forsaken. They are not mirrors for the common Forsaken citizen to look at and ponder, "gee, I sure hope Sylvanas won't do the same to me." They were not raised by Sylvanas's val'kyr in a way that is literally identically to the way all of the new Forsaken since Cataclysm have been raised.

Also, again, Baine was not present when Valentine was raised nor when he was killed.

I am not responsible for you stating that there was a ceasefire. If I took your words for confirmation, you have only yourself to blame.

Now let's assume that there as a ceasefire. Not because it benefits my narrative but because that has been the case for all other periods between two expansions and would actually allow us to make sense of the events that took place during and immediately after Cataclysm. Like the fact that the Alliance was blind-sided by garrosh's attack on Theramore or that the Kirin Tor were willing to play the role of Azeroth's UN and intervene on the Alliance's behalf, despite being neutral at this point.

Tauren break ceasefire -> Baine is worried that Alliance reprisal would endanger the lives of his people -> Baine exiles people he considered friends for the greater good.

Twinbraid... does nothing and does not break the ceasefire.

Of course, we could also go with there being no ceasefire and just accept the story as the bullshit it was.

Either way, we will likely not know for sure unless Blizzard decided to elucidate.

Also, my defence of Baine does not equate me defending Twinbraid or his actions. You don't make peace with friends. You don't even only make peace with good people. Sometimes you have to make peace with awful people because doing otherwise would lead to a worse outcome.

(Oh, and by the way, the dwarven archaeologists were also civilians. Neither side was innocent. And by sides I mean the Alliance and Horde, not the Stonefire tauren.)

The depiction of tauren and their culture has changed since Warcraft 3. And even then, the actual tauren characters did not behave in the way the unit's quotes would have you believe.
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  #7619  
Old 01-29-2019, 11:42 AM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Blackthorn and Mug'thol are not Forsaken. They are not mirrors for the common Forsaken citizen to look at and ponder, "gee, I sure hope Sylvanas won't do the same to me." They were not raised by Sylvanas's val'kyr in a way that is literally identically to the way all of the new Forsaken since Cataclysm have been raised.
That doesn't change the fact that you said the first instance of Forsaken. mind control when it was clearly done in the past. Besides the abominations, there's people like Blind Theresa the Fable reference.

Also, again, Baine was not present when Valentine was raised nor when he was killed.

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I am not responsible for you stating that there was a ceasefire. If I took your words for confirmation, you have only yourself to blame.
There never was a ceasefire because the Cataclysm conflict was on a truly massive scale. Get that through your thick head.

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Tauren break ceasefire -> Baine is worried that Alliance reprisal would endanger the lives of his people -> Baine exiles people he considered friends for the greater good.
Except the Alliance was still attacking.

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Twinbraid... does nothing and does not break the ceasefire.
He committed genocide on the Stonespire, then killed goblin civilians. Under real life, he would be considered a war criminal and the Alliance would have to give him up.

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Also, my defence of Baine does not equate me defending Twinbraid or his actions. You don't make peace with friends. You don't even only make peace with good people. Sometimes you have to make peace with awful people because doing otherwise would lead to a worse outcome.
Yet you're defending Baine for exiling tauren for defending themselves from scumbags like Twinbraid.

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(Oh, and by the way, the dwarven archaeologists were also civilians. Neither side was innocent. And by sides I mean the Alliance and Horde, not the Stonefire tauren.)
Dwarves archealogists...these were the scumbags left in the Bael'dun fortress.

Bael'dun Soldier


Bael'dun Rifleman


Bael'Dun Officer


There were zero civilians, even Marley Twinbraid was a military scout who sent the player to kill tauren.

unlike Twinbraid's targets which consisted of:

Miners

Floozies(IE: Sex-workers)

You are literally trying to justify Alliance warcrimes and condemn the Horde for self defense.

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The depiction of tauren and their culture has changed since Warcraft 3. And even then, the actual tauren characters did not behave in the way the unit's quotes would have you believe.
No, Baine changed.

Cairne immediately decided to fight humans once he found out they were giving the orcs trouble. The whole reason orcs and taurens connected was because they had similar cultures.

You and ARM don't understand tauren.
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  #7620  
Old 01-29-2019, 11:57 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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There was a ceasefire.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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  #7621  
Old 01-29-2019, 12:11 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You're literally ignoring my points and that most of your statements were literally proven wrong, so yeah, you have no argument.
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It's really been a case of Blizzard shitting on the Alliance and Horde storyline, but with the added bonus of the Alliance fanbase requesting to shit further on the Horde fanbase.
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  #7622  
Old 01-29-2019, 12:59 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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You're literally ignoring my points and that most of your statements were literally proven wrong, so yeah, you have no argument.
No, I am simply pointing out that your aggressive response was completely unwarranted, when it was your post and the omission of the word "no" that led to my misunderstanding.

And yes, you would be right that I am ignoring some of your arguments.

If you were to tell me that there was no ceasefire because such an event was never mentioned? Fair enough, that I can consider evidence. Not unshakeable given that there are a few events that would imply otherwise, but at least it is evidence. However, "There never was a ceasefire because the Cataclysm conflict was on a truly massive scale"? What is that even supposed to mean? That a massive conflict couldn't possibly ever end? That conflicts that take years to be resolved, possibly even decades, could not possibly be interrupted by brief ceasefires? I am sorry to tell you, but that is not the case.

As to the mind controlling of Mug'thol, Blackthorn, Blind Theresa and Marshall Valentine, these are all events that Baine is not necessarily aware of. They certainly are not events the Forsaken would publicly advertise. Two of them even taking place years before she even became a member of the Horde. What, is he supposed to develop clairvoyance and show his indignation whenever the Forsaken commit a crime against nature in some far off corner of Azeroth?

If you want to, you can take Baine's reaction to Derek's mind-control as a sign that he favours Jaina over the Horde. I won't deny that it is possible. However, I'd rather go with the far more likely interpretation that, while his decision was certainly influenced by his gratitude towards Jaina and friendship with Anduin, Sylvanas actions and complete disregard for morals were simply the straw that broke the camel's back.
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  #7623  
Old 01-29-2019, 01:21 PM
JorgeAxe JorgeAxe is offline

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No, I am simply pointing out that your aggressive response was completely unwarranted, when it was your post and the omission of the word "no" that led to my misunderstanding.
You were deliberately ignoring the rest of the purpose for sake of deliberately misinterpreting a typographical error for the sake of your delusional argument.

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And yes, you would be right that I am ignoring some of your arguments.
And your claims were wrong. Vendetta point was defending the Horde, Twinbraid was a coward who only ever attacked Horde civilians and got promoted for it, ETC.

You have no crediblity when talking about the tauren as you've proven you know nothing about them.

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However, "There never was a ceasefire because the Cataclysm conflict was on a truly massive scale"? What is that even supposed to mean? That a massive conflict couldn't possibly ever end? That conflicts that take years to be resolved, possibly even decades, could not possibly be interrupted by brief ceasefires? I am sorry to tell you, but that is not the case.
Tides of War took canonly place shortly during the Cataclysm, there was no enough time for a ceasefire.

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As to the mind controlling of Mug'thol, Blackthorn, Blind Theresa and Marshall Valentine, these are all events that Baine is not necessarily aware of.
But the Forsaken don't make them hidden and make it clear. How would Baine know of Derek but not Valentine, particularly when finding and controlling him was openly a Horde goal?

He also saw Sylvanas blight and raise Tauren as undead, again no reaction from him.

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
They certainly are not events the Forsaken would publicly advertise. Two of them even taking place years before she even became a member of the Horde. What, is he supposed to develop clairvoyance and show his indignation whenever the Forsaken commit a crime against nature in some far off corner of Azeroth?
He somehow had the clairvoyance to know Hawthorne felt bad for firebombing Taurajo and made token unsuccessful attempts to spare some civilians(which he failed at) in Tides of War even though there was no narrative way he could've known that.

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
If you want to, you can take Baine's reaction to Derek's mind-control as a sign that he favours Jaina over the Horde. I won't deny that it is possible. However, I'd rather go with the far more likely interpretation that, while his decision was certainly influenced by his gratitude towards Jaina and friendship with Anduin, Sylvanas actions and complete disregard for morals were simply the straw that broke the camel's back.
Except in the quest text, he specifically mentions only now has Sylvanas crossed the line.

Again Baine has never ever sided with the Horde over the Alliance since Golden got her hands on him.

There is no reason to count him as a Horde hero when he's never done anything for them of his free will and has actively sabotaged both them and even the tauren tribes.
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It's really been a case of Blizzard shitting on the Alliance and Horde storyline, but with the added bonus of the Alliance fanbase requesting to shit further on the Horde fanbase.
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  #7624  
Old 01-29-2019, 06:04 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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kul tiran females got new faces on ptr.

i think.

male still have 2
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  #7625  
Old 01-29-2019, 07:00 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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There's been more male kul tiran faces available in the files for quite some time, but not enabled in character customization for whatever reason.

Also, most helms now work on kul tirans. Game crashed before I could check out zandalari.

While fully armored, kul tirans do look cool. But they remind me too much of ogres. I really think their model will be reused for ogres (or mok'nathal) ahead...

Oh, and still no /dance.
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