I generally agree with this statement with a few reservations:
I get the impression that Sylvanas has an ulterior motive in starting this war, and that she gave Saurfang all that rationale just to get him on board. It’s very convincing rationale, and Saurfang went to war for those reasons.

I do think that by the point of the War of Thorns, diplomacy has failed, and there were no signs of any kind of peaceful resolution to problems. The question became whether violent resolution that created new problems was preferable to not resolving the problems.

will never not get tired of the mental hopscotch hardcore horde fan boys here do to justify unprovoked wars of aggression

"but muh waifu warchief had a good reason to start the war!!11"

__________________

War, especially in fantasy, doesn't need good reason to be started.

Burn it all.

I also hope the infamous leak is true and we're going to see a cornered Horde defending against a relentless Alliance.

__________________

Yeah, right. I agree. I decided to leave that out because it didn't feel that relevant to my post.

For the record, I prefer the Alliance and am in no way anyway close to being a hardcore Horde fan.

Nor do I like Sylvanas and her undead raising spree that should involve mind control but somehow doesn't. This is the main reason why I absolutely hate BFA's faction war.

The Alliance and Night Elves were my favourite factions in Warcraft 3, and that hasn't changed.

__________________
So you wish to join the unofficial SoL Discord? Say no more!

Baine's issues are him basically telling his own people to get over Taurajo or get exield "becauset hat's not who we are" and otherwise sitting on the proverbial Pot in regards to acting out of any form of defiance with Warcheifs who go too far.

It's far more than "just not Being Cairne." BEcaues Cairne threw down the moment things got stupid, Baine just wags a finger and says "oh that's bad" and continues to let bad things happen.

Big hype around the Mekkatorque raid fight

https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...test_the_most/

__________________

https://de.wowhead.com/news=288182/u...quest-spoilers

Many changes to the Alliance Darkshore Questline trying to fix the stuff, that was complained about. Hailt to the Time Lost Protonerd.

Also:

https://de.wowhead.com/news=288177/t...h-8-1-spoilers

Edit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment..._blizzard_has/

Lol, even more stuff got fixed.

(Seriously, Blizzard should hire Ian.)

i don't see how two night elves being raised and instantly joining the forsaken is "doing them justice" but i guess I have differentiating ideas for what that means

also she still loses

so what's the point

__________________

The risen night elves are probably an important plot point and need to happen.

And, while Tyrande did score a total victory, she got a partial one and a good display of abilities.

__________________
- Sorry for any typos; english's not my primary language.

- A better signature coming soon(ish).

Agreed. Though I'd even call the garrison component in itself a total victory, she basically singlehandely and more or less effortlessly wipes out an entire garrison of troops. If that is not a total victory, I do not know what it is.


Furthermore, the new version finally shows the whole point behind the Night Warrior, and it is the point I was hoping for; Tyrande retains her old abilities next to the new ones, so it is not so much a power up that would change her skill set or simply increase her raw power, it is more about enlarging her skill set by adding a number of new abilities, something that is always sound from both a tactical and strategic standpoint.

i guess I still don't see what's so great about it. the horde still raise two night elves who instantly join the forsaken and start chanting death to the living while the horde lose...a valkyr and some random footsoldiers. just because tyrande can fight against self-insert Blightcaller now while he's empowered doesn't mean shit

__________________

In what way is Nathanos empowered? By the val'kyr or something? Seems pretty weird anyway that he can hold off Tyrande even like that, or that just a Val'kyr can incapacitate her and then fend off Malfurion. Just seems like it should have been a lot more one sided given how Elune's Chosen and Azeroth's strongest druid shouldn't have any trouble with a ranger, albeit a skilled one, and a val'kyr that isn't enhanced by the Lich King or Odyn.

__________________

Cairne also got himself and many of his people killed, upon leaving them leaderless.

Baine learning from his father's main mistake is not a sign of weakness. Unlike his father, he doesn't even have an heir to clean up his messes

__________________
So you wish to join the unofficial SoL Discord? Say no more!

Two Valkyrs. Plus, Nathanos still gets gravely wound.

Looked like it was just one that fought, the other one just stayed and channeled, I think. Might have to look again, but even so it still shouldn't have been a contest either way, even without Tyrande's buff.

__________________

So now it seems like it went from Tyrande begin impotent against a ranger to the ranger needing 2 buffs to even survive.

I'm okay with this

Mekkatorque's fight sounds like it'll be a nightmare on LFR, but I love the inventive ideas with it.

As for Darkshore changes, I'm pretty happy.

You say this now, but what if they next have her kill all the tauren in Thunder Bluff? I can see Blizzard pulling something like that.

I say we not spoil a good moment for the time being. ;P

Hah, sorry

And lets not forget the quillboar debacle. Where Baine glosses over the murders of some of his people and lets the enemy live and thinks he made peace by giving them the water that they want... they invade a bit later anyway and kill a bunch more tauren.
He also let Magatha go right? After she assassinated a great number of tauren in her coup.

So yeah you are 100% right why people dislike or are ambivalent about Baine. He is a prime example of Stupid Good. Not thinking far ahead to protect his people, not avenging his people and not doing anything to improve the outcome of future events in general (hence why Sylvanas will likely do something awful to the Horde while Baine will sit there looking silly).

Also, never forget Baine defending Garrosh at that kangaroo court.

__________________

That's another thing I can't help but disagree with. Had he tried again and again to make peace with the quillboar and been refuted each and every time, leading to an increasing body count, I would agree that he was wrong for trying to negotiate. But as far as we know, this only happened once. And once that single attempt failed, the tauren employed force to deal with the problem.

It's almost as if the fact that quillboar are enemies of the Horde completely negates the fact that they are a sentient species that can potentially be reasoned with. You negotiate peace with you enemies not with your friends.

I realize that this is the Horde we are talking about and that people expect a certain amount of adherence to the rules of might makes right, mak'gora and brute force being the solution to all problems, but this trinity really isn't the answer to everything. Not on the Alliance and not on the Horde.

__________________
So you wish to join the unofficial SoL Discord? Say no more!

I am pretty sure in the long history of the tauren people they tried to negotiate with the quillboar, and clearly it failed. Probably more than once. Furthermore quillboar are shown to be aggressive and unreasonable at every point, including in the short story where they don't even try to negotiate before attacking. I dislike how "mongrel" races are always shown to be chaotic evil and a guilt free genocide but that is how it is.
But okay, even despite all this he wants to negotiate, he sees they are unreasonable and quick to murder and he gives them this shaky peace... and he takes no precautions. So when unsurprisingly the quillboar attack again these is no strong force to meet them, they burn many tauren homes, kill many people and untrained young tauren are sent to fight them off, which is a recipe for success no doubt. It would have been a different story if a force made for this purpose quickly held off the quillboar and told the young tauren that they gave them a shot at coexistence, now they will learn what it means to cross the tauren.

But that didn't happen, and so people don't like Baine. They don't like him for sparing Magatha whose assassins killed most of the named characters in Thunder Bluff in the book, not that the game shows this but it happened. You said you don't want to comment on this Naz and that's okay, but I just want to round out this argument. He punishes and exiles his own people who do want to react to the acts of aggression against them.
And that's the thing people hate about him the most, his passivity. Both when it comes to defeating his enemies but also keep track of his allies. Garrosh was a mistake that can be believed but then the mistake was supposedly learned from. Yet now Sylvanas is rather out of control and Baine does nothing but preach, she should have been deposed after Teldrassil already but still nothing. Will Baine stand idly by while another civil war wracks the Horde on his watch? He is getting more screentime and is actually fighting at least so lets hope Blizz does not make him look like an indolent fool again, but I am not holding my breath.

i realize this is an illegal word here, But Baine is a Cuck.