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Old 05-10-2018, 07:21 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Gortrash View Post
I think what everyone fails to realize yet is that the scenario stinking of fanwank to boot is NOT the worst part. The really REALLY scary part is that it seems like Blizzard are going somewhere with this and seeding future story elements for even MORE potential MU/AU crossovers. YEY!
Likely they’ll consolidate...... that’s what Chronicle III suggests. We’ve gotten used to thinking of WoD as taking place in a wholly separate universe, but at one point they were one. Then a separate possibility spun out into its own Timeway, one where Rulkan lived and Garrosh wasn’t borne. It would have dissipated and come to naught had it not been for Garrosh and Kairoz. It can be redirected back into the main Timeway. Who knows what such a massive confluence would do. Could be interesting..................
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  #5252  
Old 05-10-2018, 07:25 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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I do wish for that. But that would mean peace while Blizzard is hellbent on having another idiotic faction conflict so we can't have that.
And since we can't stop this from going down, I'd rather have the Alliance as the bad guys this time around.
Otherwise it really is just Cata/MoP 2.0.
I think it's perfectly possible to have faction conflict while both factions are portrayed well.

I had that Lordaeron expansion concept in which in essence the Alliance starts the conflict, for example.

The big problem is that it takes effort to write a good story. It's way easier to just keep spewing magical non-sense in order to keep things moving forward.

Why is the faction conflict happening now? Because of a series of magical happenings and contrived events, like Vol'jin dying suddenly after becoming Warchief, Sylvanas ascending to power because the Loa asked for it and azerite causing an arms race.

Before BfA was announced, I was expecting an exploration/commerce/rebuilding our kingdoms type of expansion, in which there was peace because everyone was too weak to start conflict. It's funny that most of the expansion's features (island explorations, Zandalar, Kul Tiras) could still work in such a setting. The faction war could have been slowly built over one or two expansions in a way that makes sense.

I thought BfA's faction war was a bad idea since the announcement. Everything has been going downhill since then. The Light/Void conflict has just spawned some of the worst forced lore elements this expansion (void elves, now this thing with the mag'har). In my opinion, it is being set up in a horrid way.
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  #5253  
Old 05-10-2018, 09:01 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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  #5254  
Old 05-10-2018, 09:25 AM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I thought BfA's faction war was a bad idea since the announcement. Everything has been going downhill since then. The Light/Void conflict has just spawned some of the worst forced lore elements this expansion (void elves, now this thing with the mag'har). In my opinion, it is being set up in a horrid way.
Oh, it's being handled just hideously, but I like the ideas behind them. Well, not the Void Elves. We didn't need more derivative Elves, and I honestly don't see them ever leaving their mark on WoW. Nightborne actually seem like they'll pair well with Blood Elves as the magic elves, and have lots of history to give them flavor. Void Elves are just kind of mindless garbage.

The thing is, I can sort of glimpse a good idea somewhere in the Light/Void conflict, but I doubt all the writers are on the same page. Void/Light seems to represent multiple dichotomies in one. Id/Superego, Corruption/Purity, and probably others I don't feel like thinking about. Hell, maybe throw in some Jungian Shadow concepts as well.

The Draenei want to heal the Mag'har's scars, as Xe'ra intended with Illidan. But it's all a clear reference to how even unpleasant things, even your mistakes, shape you as a person and are part of the learning process. That it's part of being a complete person.

Honestly, I wouldn't be too surprised if the story built up to reveal that the Void is, quite literally, the Light's shadow. All the things it rejected about itself and cast off, instead of learning to accept and reconciling with.
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  #5255  
Old 05-10-2018, 10:04 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
Oh, it's being handled just hideously, but I like the ideas behind them. Well, not the Void Elves. We didn't need more derivative Elves, and I honestly don't see them ever leaving their mark on WoW. Nightborne actually seem like they'll pair well with Blood Elves as the magic elves, and have lots of history to give them flavor. Void Elves are just kind of mindless garbage.

The thing is, I can sort of glimpse a good idea somewhere in the Light/Void conflict, but I doubt all the writers are on the same page. Void/Light seems to represent multiple dichotomies in one. Id/Superego, Corruption/Purity, and probably others I don't feel like thinking about. Hell, maybe throw in some Jungian Shadow concepts as well.

The Draenei want to heal the Mag'har's scars, as Xe'ra intended with Illidan. But it's all a clear reference to how even unpleasant things, even your mistakes, shape you as a person and are part of the learning process. That it's part of being a complete person.

Honestly, I wouldn't be too surprised if the story built up to reveal that the Void is, quite literally, the Light's shadow. All the things it rejected about itself and cast off, instead of learning to accept and reconciling with.
I like the ideas and concepts behind the whole mess (except, you know, void elves). I agree with a lot of what you wrote above. It's the execution (so far) that leaves me worried. It can still have a great story behind it, I just doubt Blizzard's ability to pull it off well.

I'd like to see a subtle build towards the conflict. By herself, Xe'ra was handled well, IMO. I remember how a lot of us hated that she was praising Illidan like a fangirl, so the twist that she didn't care at all for whatever Illidan had done because his destiny was to serve the Light and end the demons was actually a nice surprise.

I like the possibility that naaru can have their own personalities and some of them may be flawed in one way or another.

I dislike the possibility that all naaru may be fanatics that so far have just kept their agenda hidden.

(The same about the Void Lords: they'll be way more interesting if only some are behind the Old Gods and void manifestations, while others may be actually benign).

For the entire mag'har situation, I would probably be okay with it if the draenei were handled with subtlety. Instead of seemly fanatics preaching "The Light will heal your scars" to you, maybe it should look into a more straitforward "Surrender, please. We do not need to fight" and leave it open.
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  #5256  
Old 05-10-2018, 11:09 AM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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In other news, it looks like this is what the Kul Tiran druid Cat Form will look like.
(Screenshot by MyMindWontQuiet on the Wowpedia Slack channel)

https://i.imgur.com/K29V9Yk.jpg
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  #5257  
Old 05-10-2018, 12:05 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I like the ideas and concepts behind the whole mess (except, you know, void elves). I agree with a lot of what you wrote above. It's the execution (so far) that leaves me worried. It can still have a great story behind it, I just doubt Blizzard's ability to pull it off well.

I'd like to see a subtle build towards the conflict. By herself, Xe'ra was handled well, IMO. I remember how a lot of us hated that she was praising Illidan like a fangirl, so the twist that she didn't care at all for whatever Illidan had done because his destiny was to serve the Light and end the demons was actually a nice surprise.

I like the possibility that naaru can have their own personalities and some of them may be flawed in one way or another.

I dislike the possibility that all naaru may be fanatics that so far have just kept their agenda hidden.

(The same about the Void Lords: they'll be way more interesting if only some are behind the Old Gods and void manifestations, while others may be actually benign).
Well, with Xe'ra, I thought her attitude was interesting because it showed her value system. It showed just how much she believed the ends justified the means, to the point that she spoke of it all as if it were Illidan's sacrifice. He did nothing wrong in her eyes, but he hurt himself along the way.

Her viewpoint is black and white. If something serves the greater good, it's entirely good. I think Illidan's own rejection of her came from his understanding of sacrifice. Illidan never just sacrificed himself. He sacrificed others, whether they wanted it or not. Xe'ra's offer of redemption focused on what he had done to himself, giving into Fel corruption, rather than what he had done to others.

When he locks himself up with Sargeras, I don't believe Illidan actually thinks he can take on Sargeras one on one or actually do anything the Titans couldn't. Velen makes it clear that Illidan didn't serve a purpose there, and could have returned if he wanted. And I think that's the thing there. Illidan knew what being a jailer meant for Maiev, and the scene may have worked better if she had been there as well.

Being the jailer for Sargeras means that Illidan is going to be locked away for a long, long, long fucking time. He turned down the redemption Xe'ra offered, because I don't think he wanted to be forgiven. Especially not by her standards of morality. And it's interesting to see that his friends and family don't actually entirely forgive him. In the end, I think that's how he wanted it.

But back to the Naaru. I think they likely reflect different interpretations and applications of the Light, and adapted and adopted different attitudes from their experience. And since Blizzard volunteered the idea that the Void Lords are also different, in answer to question about Naaru and Xe'ra, I think we will see different Void Lords who approach the worldview of the Void differently.

I don't think any single Naaru or Void Lord encapsulates the entirety of what Void and Light are, and that they're actually fairly broad and multifaceted. The Void likely has domain over things like ambition, curiosity, and self-reliance, as well as its more negative hungers, paranoia, and selfishness.
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  #5258  
Old 05-10-2018, 03:09 PM
Joeygiggles Joeygiggles is offline

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Im not a huge fan of the way they are going about the AU however it doesn't seem anyone has mentioned how we fucked up that timeline. Well Garrosh but us as well, we changed the course of what was supposed to happen
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Old 05-10-2018, 04:23 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
Honestly, I wouldn't be too surprised if the story built up to reveal that the Void is, quite literally, the Light's shadow. All the things it rejected about itself and cast off, instead of learning to accept and reconciling with.
You're firing up my imagination. What if you're talking about the entity that first created the WoW universe(in-story of course)? Like you say, it hated it's shadow, and rejected it, leaving both light and void incomplete. Now the light is going on to purify the universe the way it thinks is best, with the void doing the same.

And about the draenic inquisition, besides one quote about Yrel, do we really know if she really is the Exarch? Pure speculation, but maybe she became seriously ill and a temporary co-exarch appointed(with her nominally still being High Exarch). The naaru whispered to this draenei about lightbinding and began applying this to his own people as well as to the orcs(by force). Yrel recovers and discovers what has happened, is appalled and flees with a group of like-minded draenei to form a coalition with friendly orcs to overthrow the temporary exarch.

Last edited by Mungo; 05-10-2018 at 04:58 PM.. Reason: added more stuff
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  #5260  
Old 05-10-2018, 08:55 PM
Krainz Krainz is online now

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Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like? You've got to be kidding me. I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that?
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  #5261  
Old 05-11-2018, 01:18 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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They should bring AU draenor to MU.

Especially with the interesting and amazing stuff that is going on there now.
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  #5262  
Old 05-11-2018, 04:30 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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They should bring AU draenor to MU.

Especially with the interesting and amazing stuff that is going on there now.
Not sure if Gurzogging or not, but basically................ yeah.

Based off Chronicle, had Kairoz and Garrosh not done what they had done, the Warlords Timeway would have fizzled out on its own, just like the King Blackmore Timeway. AUBlackmore Killed Thrall oh so many times trying to make his Timeway the Dominant one IIRC. I wonder if the Lightbound, wanting to make their Draenor cosmically significant (only the True Timeway has real effects on the Cosmos) might not try something similar... I mean their Draenor is better overall, they’d probably consider it saving lives. I’m sure it would have enormous consequences.

Last edited by Menel'dirion; 05-11-2018 at 04:32 AM..
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  #5263  
Old 05-11-2018, 08:01 AM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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Blood Prince Dreven
min 14:44

that gnome must have been a good lunch
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Old 05-11-2018, 03:02 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
Not sure if Gurzogging or not, but basically................ yeah.

Based off Chronicle, had Kairoz and Garrosh not done what they had done, the Warlords Timeway would have fizzled out on its own, just like the King Blackmore Timeway. AUBlackmore Killed Thrall oh so many times trying to make his Timeway the Dominant one IIRC. I wonder if the Lightbound, wanting to make their Draenor cosmically significant (only the True Timeway has real effects on the Cosmos) might not try something similar... I mean their Draenor is better overall, they’d probably consider it saving lives. I’m sure it would have enormous consequences.
We were told in a tweet (granted before volume 3 came out) that Blackmore’s timeline survived, so I wouldn’t dismiss that one yet.
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:44 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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Been a bit busy the past few days so didn't log on but I did see the whole AU Draenor hullabaloo. At first I was going "the fuck" but as I've had time to digest it, I actually kinda like it?

Like, not what I would've chosen, and I hate the idea of Yrel being hit with the villain bat but otherwise, I do like the idea of Light zealots like that as potential bad guys. Too many enemies are corruption and dark and unholy and fire. Gimme clean, sharp lines and pure fire.
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  #5266  
Old 05-11-2018, 05:49 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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I personally like WoD much more now with these developments. Especially because I don't see Yrel as having become a villain; in fact, I hope she comes over to the Alliance.

Furthermore, there's obviously the draenei side to his conflicts we know nothing about. Also also, perhaps AU Xe'ra is involved and she's taken over the draenei.
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Old 05-11-2018, 05:57 PM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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Blood Prince Dreven eat a Gnome
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Old 05-11-2018, 07:36 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I personally like WoD much more now with these developments. Especially because I don't see Yrel as having become a villain; in fact, I hope she comes over to the Alliance.

Furthermore, there's obviously the draenei side to his conflicts we know nothing about. Also also, perhaps AU Xe'ra is involved and she's taken over the draenei.
There was this whole unexplored facet of Yrel that involved a hidden darkness with in her. I’m not suggesting this is it. Rather, I wonder if perhaps that Darknesss manifested later, and Xe’ra or a like minded Naaru “cured” her.
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Old 05-12-2018, 03:40 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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My god the laughable writing continues

Though he attempted to warn his father of the danger, Derek was incinerated by one of the dragons as he stood on top of the crow's nest

Incinerated = destroyed, disintegrated beyond recognition

Yet somehow they can fucking bring him back to life lol because of course the Forsaken are just misunderstood war criminals and all
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Old 05-12-2018, 05:59 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Now this is very interesting. Uther's Tomb has been remade. And not just with assets from the Battle of Lordaeron or the warfonts, it's all entirely new stuff used nowhere else in the expansion.



They wouldn't put that much effort into a revamp of a single location in WPL unless they had some major plans for it...
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Old 05-12-2018, 06:24 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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Now this is very interesting. Uther's Tomb has been remade. And not just with assets from the Battle of Lordaeron or the warfonts, it's all entirely new stuff used nowhere else in the expansion.



They wouldn't put that much effort into a revamp of a single location in WPL unless they had some major plans for it...
sure it'll be burned down by the forsaken and made into a horde only place for the misunderstood
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  #5272  
Old 05-12-2018, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Now this is very interesting. Uther's Tomb has been remade. And not just with assets from the Battle of Lordaeron or the warfonts, it's all entirely new stuff used nowhere else in the expansion.



They wouldn't put that much effort into a revamp of a single location in WPL unless they had some major plans for it...
http://bfa.wowhead.com/npc=142146/ut...e-lightbringer

Combines good with this new NPC added in the last build.
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Old 05-12-2018, 08:46 PM
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http://bfa.wowhead.com/npc=142146/ut...e-lightbringer

Combines good with this new NPC added in the last build.
I spy with my little eye Sylvanas’s next target after Derek.
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  #5274  
Old 05-12-2018, 09:02 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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Knowing the utterly contemptible shit-robots the story writers seem to be, she'll resurrect Derek, Daelin, Uther and Terenas somehow despite his remains being cremated who will then all pledge loyalty to the Forsaken, now and forever while then inviting the Horde PC to a gangbang in her throne room while she makes Anduin watch.
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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
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Old 05-12-2018, 09:42 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Knowing the utterly contemptible shit-robots the story writers seem to be, she'll resurrect Derek, Daelin, Uther and Terenas somehow despite his remains being cremated who will then all pledge loyalty to the Forsaken, now and forever while then inviting the Horde PC to a gangbang in her throne room while she makes Anduin watch.
You forgot Varian as long as we’re raising cremated people.
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