Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > World of WarCraft Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #5301  
Old 05-14-2018, 03:21 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

Arch-Druid
Asterisk's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: The Lanes Between
Posts: 1,412

Default

I love every line of Taelia and Flynn's interactions in the Jaina questline. Easily my favorite characters of BfA.
Reply With Quote
  #5302  
Old 05-14-2018, 04:43 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

Elune
Arakiba's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,586

Default

Shaman get two new Hex variants in the latest build. One turns the target into a Zandalari Tendonripper.

The other?

A Wicker Mongrel.

Definitely gonna be KT shaman.
Reply With Quote
  #5303  
Old 05-14-2018, 04:59 PM
Deicide Deicide is online now

Arch-Druid
Deicide's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,122

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arakiba View Post
Shaman get two new Hex variants in the latest build. One turns the target into a Zandalari Tendonripper.

The other?

A Wicker Mongrel.

Definitely gonna be KT shaman.
I feel like Blizzard has no idea of what to do with Kul Tirans and is throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks...
__________________
- Sorry for any typos; english's not my primary language.

- A better signature coming soon(ish).
Reply With Quote
  #5304  
Old 05-14-2018, 06:08 PM
Joeygiggles Joeygiggles is offline

Arch-Druid
Joeygiggles's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,150
BattleTag: Joeygiggles#1104

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I feel like Blizzard has no idea of what to do with Kul Tirans and is throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks...
Soooo basically everything new that blizzard throws in allied race wise you say the same exact thing over and over again
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5305  
Old 05-14-2018, 06:27 PM
Deicide Deicide is online now

Arch-Druid
Deicide's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,122

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeygiggles View Post
Soooo basically everything new that blizzard throws in allied race wise you say the same exact thing over and over again
Not even close. There's a huge difference between something that is new but well seeded and makes sense, and new but feels forced and hastily put together.

Void elves are in the worst side of the spectrum. Nightborne, while I did have some early criticism on the first concepts of them ("what? There was a big magical barrier covering a whole city and we never knew about it?"), are on the better side.

I'm not in beta, so I may be wrong, but I've been following the discussions, and I had never seen anyone talk about finding true kul tiran shamans. There was speculation with the tide priests and so, but nothing that you can look and say "shaman".

To me, the idea that humans had druids and shamans, both concepts that were almost alien to other human kingdoms, while we had a mercantile nation that was part of the Alliance all this time seem very forced to me.

I got to accept kul tiran druids a little because of the drust. It was believable that there could be some small kul tiran group that learned tricks from the drust. But shamans too? Two classes that never had anything to do with humans are now available to humans, so long as they are the fat ones?

It does not sit well with me.

Maybe if it was just kul tirans I wouldn't feel like Blizzard is pulling things out of its ass, but after void elves and lightforged draenei (and using AU!mag'har rather than MU ones), it does feel we are aimless and making things up along the way.
__________________
- Sorry for any typos; english's not my primary language.

- A better signature coming soon(ish).

Last edited by Deicide; 05-14-2018 at 06:30 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #5306  
Old 05-14-2018, 06:33 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

Arch-Druid
Asterisk's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: The Lanes Between
Posts: 1,412

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I feel like Blizzard has no idea of what to do with Kul Tirans and is throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks...
I don't follow.

It's canon that humans had shamans and druids pre-Light. It's also canon that Gilneas kept them because they were isolated. So therefore it makes sense that Kul Tiras, which is even more isolated than Gilneas by virtue of being an island and was also founded by Gilneans in the first place, would also have kept them.

Plus their priesthood talks to water spirits and uses water and lightning magic. What is that if not a shaman?

Also just as an aside, drust magic is death magic. There is no quest in Drustvar associating them with druids nor any quest so much as implying that the Kul Tiran druids were influenced by them.

Last edited by Asterisk; 05-14-2018 at 06:38 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #5307  
Old 05-14-2018, 06:55 PM
Deicide Deicide is online now

Arch-Druid
Deicide's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,122

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
I don't follow.

It's canon that humans had shamans and druids pre-Light. It's also canon that Gilneas kept them because they were isolated. So therefore it makes sense that Kul Tiras, which is even more isolated than Gilneas by virtue of being an island and was also founded by Gilneans in the first place, would also have kept them.

Plus their priesthood talks to water spirits and uses water and lightning magic. What is that if not a shaman?

Also just as an aside, drust magic is death magic. There is no quest in Drustvar associating them with druids nor any quest so much as implying that the Kul Tiran druids were influenced by them.
The gilnean "druids" were explained away as being actually "harvest witches" with minor nature powers. They only graduated into true shapeshifting druids once the worgen curse amped their powers.

But, like I said, it's more about the sensation of having a constant influx of sudden developments that bothers me. Maybe Kul Tirans would feel fine if they were being introduced alone, but after all the void elf and lightforged sudden introductions, it feels like Blizzard is making things up along the way.

Maybe once I actually quest throught Kul Tiras my opinion changes. Like I said, void elves (and AU!Mag'har) really soured my experience with WoW.
__________________
- Sorry for any typos; english's not my primary language.

- A better signature coming soon(ish).

Last edited by Deicide; 05-14-2018 at 08:00 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #5308  
Old 05-14-2018, 08:12 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

Eternal
Menel'dirion's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The most gorgeous place in the world (if you've been there you know what I'm talking about)
Posts: 2,511

Default

I kinda always figured KT would have Shamans... superstitious sailors who trusted the wind and the tides and the currents to take them home. A shaman seems like someone I’d want on a boat.
Reply With Quote
  #5309  
Old 05-14-2018, 09:02 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

Troubadour
Krainz's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,332
BattleTag: Krainz#1972

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
The gilnean "druids" were explained away as being actually "harvest witches" with minor nature powers. They only graduated into true shapeshifting druids once the worgen curse amped their powers.

But, like I said, it's more about the sensation of having a constant influx of sudden developments that bothers me. Maybe Kul Tirans would feel fine if they were being introduced alone, but after all the void elf and lightforged sudden introductions, it feels like Blizzard is making things up along the way.

Maybe once I actually quest throught Kul Tiras my opinion changes. Like I said, void elves (and AU!Mag'har) really soured my experience with WoW.
I take it you never played Warcraft III.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5310  
Old 05-14-2018, 11:16 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

Time-Lost Proto Nerd
Insane Guy of Doom's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,963

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirnheim View Post
Some of us aren't ON discord. What's the proof?

If true, then this is horse shit. Horde gets literal troll gods fighting for them. Sylvanas can do no wrong, and all the high quality shit goes to them? Cataclysm 2.0. And all of the mouth-breathing fucknuggets here will cheer and rationalize it.
I can confirm he's telling the truth this time. Screenshots of the entire questline are on the discord.

It's the Horde counterpart to the alliance questline where you and Katherine rescue Jaina from Thros, the Drust's realm.

Zalazane has become a Lich and returned to the Echo Isles with a bunch of undead trolls (he escaped from The Necropolis in Nazmir due to Bwonsamdi being distracted by all the stuff going on with G'huun). Talanji, Rokhan, and the player go to stop him but Zalazane is too powerful. Vol'jin's spirit appears and destroys Zalazane, his power revealing that he has become a loa.



Talanji says that if Vol'jin has become a loa, then he is worthy of being put to rest with the Zandalari kings in Atal'Dazar. You take his ashes from a monument on the Echo Isles to Zandalar, but have to complete a ceremony where you carry his ashes across the Golden Road to Atal'Dazar while trolls who dislike Vol'jin due to his being part of the Horde try and kill you. You make to Atal'Dazar and scatter his ashes.

Edit: more of the questline. When you start to scatter Vol'jin's ashes, Bwonsamdi appears and says you can't. Vol'jin broke some sort of agreement with Bwonsamdi, and that was the real reason Zalazane was able to escape. He tells you to bring Vol'jin's ashes to the Necropolis where Bwonsamdi and Vol'jin will "have a face to face on my ground." However the questline just ends there, it appears the rest isn't implemented.

Last edited by Insane Guy of Doom; 05-15-2018 at 12:56 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #5311  
Old 05-15-2018, 12:03 AM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is online now

Chimaera
Pepe Stormstout's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Sweden
Posts: 299

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
Also just as an aside, drust magic is death magic. There is no quest in Drustvar associating them with druids nor any quest so much as implying that the Kul Tiran druids were influenced by them.
At BlizzCon 2017 it was specifically described as "ancient druidic death magic". IMO it'd be a shame if Blizzard changed their minds and just made the drust use pure death magic, since a "necromantic druid" combining the two fundamentally opposing forces of life and death isn't really something we've seen a lot of in Warcraft and it could turn out to be interesting if they explored the idea a bit.
__________________


Avatar by Baldi Konijn.
Previous avatars: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Last edited by Pepe Stormstout; 05-15-2018 at 12:11 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #5312  
Old 05-15-2018, 12:33 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

Time-Lost Proto Nerd
Insane Guy of Doom's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,963

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepe Stormstout View Post
At BlizzCon 2017 it was specifically described as "ancient druidic death magic". IMO it'd be a shame if Blizzard changed their minds and just made the drust use pure death magic, since a "necromantic druid" combining the two fundamentally opposing forces of life and death isn't really something we've seen a lot of in Warcraft and it could turn out to be interesting if they explored the idea a bit.
There's also the fact that Kul Tiran druid forms look just like the Drust's wicker beasts and nothing like any druid form/magic we've seen before.
Reply With Quote
  #5313  
Old 05-15-2018, 01:47 AM
Lugia Lugia is offline

Wisp
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: France
Posts: 6

Default

So Zalazane is nearly quoting Hades from Disney's version of Hercules?
Reply With Quote
  #5314  
Old 05-15-2018, 02:40 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

Elune
Lord Grimtale's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Slaughtered Lamb
Posts: 22,025
BattleTag: Grimtale67#1407

Default

There's nothing really interesting or groundbreaking about Kul Tiran Druids in the beta so far. You would think it'd be interesting to have this race of human druids that didn't need Night Elf guidance to become Druids proper, but so far most of their quests just involve really mundane basic stuff that wouldn't be out of place in Night Elf Druid quests either. (Killing corrupt wildlife, protect the forest, gather herbs to make a remedy, etc.)

Again, it goes back to Alliance drawing the short end of the stick and ending up with a far less creative development team that don't seem to know how to think of anything interesting when it comes to designing Alliance stuff, and it doesn't help that Kul Tiran Druids were a last minute decision which means Zandalari Druids have a much better headstart on being built up as a unique thing from Night Elves.
Reply With Quote
  #5315  
Old 05-15-2018, 03:22 AM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

Eternal
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 4,850
BattleTag: kam#1475

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
There's nothing really interesting or groundbreaking about Kul Tiran Druids in the beta so far. You would think it'd be interesting to have this race of human druids that didn't need Night Elf guidance to become Druids proper, but so far most of their quests just involve really mundane basic stuff that wouldn't be out of place in Night Elf Druid quests either. (Killing corrupt wildlife, protect the forest, gather herbs to make a remedy, etc.)

Again, it goes back to Alliance drawing the short end of the stick and ending up with a far less creative development team that don't seem to know how to think of anything interesting when it comes to designing Alliance stuff, and it doesn't help that Kul Tiran Druids were a last minute decision which means Zandalari Druids have a much better headstart on being built up as a unique thing from Night Elves.
I believe that Blizzard is actively trying to write shit for the Alliance to force players to change to Horde-side. This way when they destroy the faction as a whole they will be able to write for their favorite edgy team and no one else.

They know they can't phone it in, so they want to drive Alliance players to roll Horde so then they can abandon the faction altogether after it's numbers become too low.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torch View Post
Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
Reply With Quote
  #5316  
Old 05-15-2018, 03:27 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

Time-Lost Proto Nerd
Insane Guy of Doom's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,963

Default

Speaking of discord discoveries, WoWhead has datamined the text for all the follower missions, and they're doing something really cool with it. Instead of just being based around stuff we did while leveling, most of the follower missions are actually about what's going on in Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor, showing what areas are battlefields, what faction controls which zones, etc.

I complied some of the most interesting in this blizzplanet article.

Short version. Alliance controls Tirisfal, "the Plaguelands" (so I'm assuming both Eastern and Western), Gilneas, The Hinterlands, southern Arathi. Horde controls Silverpine, Hillsbrad, Alterac, northern Arathi. Kalimdor is more mixed, with Ashenvale and Darkshore both having large Alliance and Horde strongholds. Alliance appears to have taken most of the Barrens and are preparing to siege Mulgore (probably buildup for the datamined barrens warfront).
Reply With Quote
  #5317  
Old 05-15-2018, 03:36 AM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

Eternal
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 4,850
BattleTag: kam#1475

Default

yeah that's great IGOD except it will never be reflected in game.

Unless the Horde needs more territory to lure more Alliance players in. Then it will be updated lickedy fucking split.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torch View Post
Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
Reply With Quote
  #5318  
Old 05-15-2018, 03:45 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

Time-Lost Proto Nerd
Insane Guy of Doom's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,963

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirnheim View Post
yeah that's great IGOD except it will never be reflected in game.

Unless the Horde needs more territory to lure more Alliance players in. Then it will be updated lickedy fucking split.
It not being reflected in game is the whole point. Blizzard devs have said Cataclysm was a huge mistake and they'll never try to update the old world again (outside of individual zones where it makes sense like pre-expansion events, and even then they'll be phased without making any changes to the leveling experience). So this is the only way we'll get to see the story for these areas move forward.
Reply With Quote
  #5319  
Old 05-15-2018, 03:48 AM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

Eternal
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 4,850
BattleTag: kam#1475

Default

I don't buy it. They are willing to bend over backwards to make changes to appease Horde fans - such as when the collective whining and temper-tantrums over Stormsong Horde content - so why wouldn't that be the case in the old world?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torch View Post
Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
Reply With Quote
  #5320  
Old 05-15-2018, 04:21 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

Banished
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,056
BattleTag: Hulk#2393

Default

That was because they are trying to hide the "sylvanas is evil" stuff because that is a plot of the expansion, alternatively it was a plot.

Their SJW agenda might have changed stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #5321  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:14 AM
Deicide Deicide is online now

Arch-Druid
Deicide's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,122

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
I take it you never played Warcraft III.
I don't understand what you mean by this.

I started to play in 1996, you know. I got a Warcraft 2 demo and loved it. So I got the game and played all of it. I read the manual and what really got me into the setting was Gul'dan's tale.

I followed the franchise ever since. Warcraft 3 had good and bad points. I loved the addition to the setting, but the campaign itself was kinda weak in some points. I liked where things were going.

I bought the RPGs. But I couldn't play WoW at first (because of subscription and dollar exchange prices around here at the time), but I was always following news and forums to know how things were going.

The first major disappointment with the setting came only on TBC. I really disliked a lot of aspects of it, like the space-faring mechanized Burning Legion, the blood elves going Horde and the complete rework of the Draenei and Eredar lore.

I lost interest in the game until Wrath of the Lich King was almost over. WotLK developments made me hopeful things were going better.

I started playing during the end of Cataclysm. At that point I had a good job, dollar exchange was way lower, and WoW was launched in Brazil, so it was easier to pay as well.

I loved almost everything in Pandaria. It felt fresh but not absurd, and the world building was stellar. I replayed a lot of MoP while leveling my void elf alt, and still holds up to this day. Pandaria was a marvel of storytelling for Blizzard, IMO, despite its weak later patches.

WoD was a massive disappointment from the start. I can't put in words how much I hated the alternate reality/time travel shenanigans it had, and how much it ruined the setting as a whole. There were a few bright spots: it finally made the draenei interesting to me, and it brought back (a version of) Gul'dan, one of my favorite enemies. But those things do not compensate the shitstorm that expansion was.

Legion was a mixed bag. I didn't like class redesign nor the massive retcon of the Broken Isles (which made no sense when you think too much about the new isles). The story was not great, but mostly good with some sour spots. Despite not liking the concept of highmountain tauren and nightborne at first, Blizzard did enough effort and good storytelling to make them feel nice the more you knew them.

BfA seems more like the bastard child of Legion and WoD than a new MoP to me. A lot of it makes no sense, the story feels forced and Blizzard constantly seems to be throwing ideas randomly to see what sticks. From my PoV, it's a train wreck. A nicer train wreck than WoD was, but still a mess.

I'll gladly admit I was wrong if, after actually playing it, it goes above my expectations. But I do remember how right I was about WoD since the trailer hit, and how much people were trying to see the bright side of it, just to end with that abomination.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
There's nothing really interesting or groundbreaking about Kul Tiran Druids in the beta so far. You would think it'd be interesting to have this race of human druids that didn't need Night Elf guidance to become Druids proper, but so far most of their quests just involve really mundane basic stuff that wouldn't be out of place in Night Elf Druid quests either. (Killing corrupt wildlife, protect the forest, gather herbs to make a remedy, etc.)
This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

New things aren't bad as long as they nicely knit with the existing setting. Blizzard is not doing the proper seeding and groundwork to grow new things that feel natural. The setting is becoming more and more of a ripped patchwork. And that's what truly disappoints me.
__________________
- Sorry for any typos; english's not my primary language.

- A better signature coming soon(ish).
Reply With Quote
  #5322  
Old 05-15-2018, 09:51 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

Arch-Druid
Asterisk's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: The Lanes Between
Posts: 1,412

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
There's also the fact that Kul Tiran druid forms look just like the Drust's wicker beasts and nothing like any druid form/magic we've seen before.
They don't really, though. They only have a wicker aesthetic similarity.

Wicker monsters are hollow constructs of wood, bone, and things like that held together with blue death magic, and on several occasions you see souls of humans being drained to power them.
KT druid forms have flesh and roots melded together, aren't hollow, and don't have the blue soul visual effect.

In the quests where you work alongside Kul Tiran druids, they don't seem to act any different than the druids we're used to. There's nothing they do or say connecting them to the drust.
Reply With Quote
  #5323  
Old 05-15-2018, 01:18 PM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

Arch-Druid
Reinhardt's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,038

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirnheim View Post
I believe that Blizzard is actively trying to write shit for the Alliance to force players to change to Horde-side. This way when they destroy the faction as a whole they will be able to write for their favorite edgy team and no one else.

They know they can't phone it in, so they want to drive Alliance players to roll Horde so then they can abandon the faction altogether after it's numbers become too low.
You may want to take a break.
Reply With Quote
  #5324  
Old 05-15-2018, 01:23 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

Troubadour
Krainz's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2,332
BattleTag: Krainz#1972

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I don't understand what you mean by this.
All of the new introductions to Warcraft lore made in W3 can be compared to the ones done in BFA.

And even so, the ones in BFA are better seeded.

But go on, keep whining.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5325  
Old 05-15-2018, 02:07 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

Eternal
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 4,850
BattleTag: kam#1475

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhardt View Post
You may want to take a break.
Someone has to push the formerly crazy but valid theories that no one else will
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torch View Post
Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
alliance whining, azeroth literally dying, battle for azeroth, for the whored, mop 2.0 sucks, mop sucks, more like cata 2.0 sucks, quilboar bias, world of warcraft

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.