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  #5576  
Old 05-29-2018, 07:58 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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They may have it there because the Alliance keeps Darkshore, but Teldrassil would be the Tirisfal equivalent since there is more to that zone than just Darnassus. So yeah, not equal, I agree.
I'm fine with the Horde keeping what remains of Tirisfal. The more they retain, the more it makes sense for reasons of parity for the Night Elves to maintain in Kalimdor. That aside, it looked like the Alliance didn't have a foothold and that the surrounding territories weren't in their control. I don't see why they'd stay there.

So I'm fine with this.

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The Horde in Warcraft III and vanilla were anti-heros, much more grey and #savage than the Alliance, but still technically good guys. The Horde as portrayed in Warcraft I and II were anti-villains (except for Gul'dan and his followers who were just regular villains). The confusion between anti-hero and anti-villain on people's parts (and Blizzard's themselves as you could argue the people upset about the Horde being the bad guys are ones who were drawn to their anti-hero portrayal in Warcraft III and vanilla).
This is the thing. When Blizzard goes out of their way to portray the Horde as being more than villains, and continues to reinforce that presentation, it makes sense to me that people who latched on to that presentation would feel, again, that they didn't sign up for this. You can point to this that or the other detail to support an idea that they are nothing but evil, but people are going to see the framing and the aesthetics, and it's going to take precedence over something buried in the subtext, or worse, in a book.

That's not the fault of the player, especially when so many other people were likewise confused - and again, we've been seeing that play out. That's on Blizzard. It's also on Blizzard when the true intent under the disconnect isn't well liked. They can run with it and tell people to deal with it - but that doesn't mean that people will consume it.
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  #5577  
Old 05-29-2018, 08:19 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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So it's OK the Alliance loses Darkshore AND Teldrassil but Horde only lose Tirisfal in the sense they can't even use it?

NO


BIAS


RIGHT


fucking kek
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  #5578  
Old 05-29-2018, 10:25 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Originally Posted by Quirnheim View Post
So it's OK the Alliance loses Darkshore AND Teldrassil but Horde only lose Tirisfal in the sense they can't even use it?

NO


BIAS


RIGHT


fucking kek
The Alliance doesn't lose Darkshore.
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  #5579  
Old 05-29-2018, 10:27 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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The Horde in Warcrafts I and II were not "Anti-Villains." They were demon summoning barbarians who invaded Azeroth since it was there. Don't project later retcons to old games.
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  #5580  
Old 05-30-2018, 01:09 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
Tirisfal has been updated, the mission text about the alliance controlling it does not seem to be accurate any more, it's still controlled by the Horde with no alliance NPCs at all.

https://imgur.com/a/j0pBvKv
That SCREAMS Broken Shore to me.

We will definitely return to Tirisfal, be it to do either World Quests or luckily more (dungeons, raids, etc).
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  #5581  
Old 05-30-2018, 01:35 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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I main Tauren and Pandas.
I did not sign up for the Orcs and Forsakens' bullshits. I want my own faction. With Black Jack. And Hookers.
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  #5582  
Old 05-30-2018, 04:49 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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This is so cool, there's an underwater tortollan disco bar at the bottom of Tiragarde Sound!




Last edited by Insane Guy of Doom; 05-30-2018 at 04:51 AM..
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  #5583  
Old 05-30-2018, 05:51 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Panda

Correction: my own Faction with Black Jack, Hookers and Turtle-People.

Pandas can come hang out too, they're cool. Draenei depends on whether they're the crazy AU ones or not. Velen gets shit on the house.
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  #5584  
Old 05-30-2018, 06:50 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
This is so cool, there's an underwater tortollan disco bar at the bottom of Tiragarde Sound!
Lol, that's crazy! Is it inside of a bubble or something?
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  #5585  
Old 05-30-2018, 07:19 AM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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There's actually a bunch of underwater bars like that around both Kul Tiras and Zandalar. Here's a list.
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  #5586  
Old 05-30-2018, 07:37 AM
korton korton is offline

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That's really cool! I wonder how canon they are as they seem to have very diverse patrons (which I love), including kvaldir, saurok, murlocs etc.
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  #5587  
Old 05-30-2018, 08:02 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by korton View Post
That's really cool! I wonder how canon they are as they seem to have very diverse patrons (which I love), including kvaldir, saurok, murlocs etc.
It makes me slightly disappointed that the two bars with Alliance patrons also have blood elves there. Stop teasing the high elf crowd, Blizzard!
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  #5588  
Old 05-30-2018, 09:59 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Lol, that's crazy! Is it inside of a bubble or something?
It, and presumably the other underwater tortollan bars, have a spell cast by the tortallans around them that grants you water breathing and sea legs from Vashj'ir, it's called "sunken scroll" if I remember right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by korton View Post
That's really cool! I wonder how canon they are as they seem to have very diverse patrons (which I love), including kvaldir, saurok, murlocs etc.
One of the standard tortollan on-click quotes is "We believe in trade and friendship with all races and creeds... except naga, horrible creatures." So it would make sense for them to have a diverse clientele.

Last edited by Insane Guy of Doom; 05-30-2018 at 10:01 AM..
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  #5589  
Old 05-30-2018, 12:21 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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I was thinking. (RUN, you fool!)

There was a comic last week, another this one.

Next week should come with the last one. I guess it'll be about Talanji/Zul being captured by the Alliance. I don't know who will be the main PoV (Talanji/Zul or, most probably, some Horde character involved with the story).

Then, in two weeks, we get the Before the Storm novel.

What happens in the week after that?

I don't think it'll be prepatch, of course. That's most likely coming in early July. But I don't rule out some in-game event, like the Artifact send-off. Maybe more quests in Silithus? Any guesses?
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  #5590  
Old 05-31-2018, 12:37 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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  #5591  
Old 05-31-2018, 03:40 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Weird.

Is that fanfiction or not? If not are you sure it was written by ARM? He has no official affiliation with Blizzard IIRC though he would definitely be a great hire.
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  #5592  
Old 05-31-2018, 05:40 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
Weird.

Is that fanfiction or not? If not are you sure it was written by ARM? He has no official affiliation with Blizzard IIRC though he would definitely be a great hire.
It's an official excerpt from Before the Storm. As for ARM, that was just a bit of satire.
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  #5593  
Old 05-31-2018, 06:12 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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This is such a neat touch. Instead of just selecting what zone you want to level in at the mission table, there's an entire in-game cutscene showcasing the zones and their storylines you get upon completing the introductory KT and Zandalar quests:


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  #5594  
Old 05-31-2018, 10:07 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Hmm...



This is from Kelsey talking about how she likes Dark Irons because they have machines. If we really are going to get a cyborg gnome allied race, I wonder if Kelsey will become one of them?
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  #5595  
Old 06-01-2018, 07:01 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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KEK

(ps that's from the druid campaign)
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  #5596  
Old 06-01-2018, 11:10 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Hmm...



This is from Kelsey talking about how she likes Dark Irons because they have machines. If we really are going to get a cyborg gnome allied race, I wonder if Kelsey will become one of them?
Sounds like a good idea.
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  #5597  
Old 06-01-2018, 01:00 PM
Fenixhart Fenixhart is offline

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
That's where you (and/or they) are wrong.

They DID sign up for this.

You wanted to play the edgy anti-hero. The bad guy. The outcast. The emo-douchebag on a power trip. Whatever your motivation, you selected the faction/race that was clearly *not* the good guy.

Which is fine. Embrace that shit. But quit acting like you're the hero in the story. You're the asshole. Deal with it.


If you have any other things for me to correct I'll be on hand.
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  #5598  
Old 06-01-2018, 01:24 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...orm_early_ama/

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Anduin directly asks her "Did you betray my father?"

There's a bit of a flashback moment. Vol'jin asking her to not let the Horde die, etc. She eventually reaches a conclusion. She replies without falsehood: She said that his destiny was set in stone. The legon's numbers would have seen to that whatever choice she made on that day. Anduin realises that she's not lying (or at least that's what his gut/light/bones tells him). And that brings a bit of relief. He voices a hope of further conversation in the future, but Syl highly doubts that.
Lame.

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If you have any other things for me to correct I'll be on hand.
Funny of you to quote a negligent demagogue. I'd like to quote someone too:

Quote:
If Aslan had given up Edmund in The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe, and none of the Pevensies spoke out against it, then C.S. Lewis probably wouldn't hold his revered place in the pantheon of storytellers. The story worked because Aslan is the Jesus Allegory Lion, and he did what Jesus Allegory Lions do.

This is where Thrall falls short. He's the Jesus Allegory Orc, savior of his people, able to walk on water, and return from the dead. But he doesn't act the way his backstory and characterization have set him up. The driving influence in Thrall's backstory was his time spent as a slave and gladiator in Durnholde. So, when he fufills his destiny and forges a reborn Horde, does he outlaw slavery, as a just ruler would do? Nope, because one of the driving forces in King Wrynn's backstory is that he was captured and held as a slave by Rehgar Earthfury, and forced to fight in the gladiator pits in Dire Maul. Blackmoore was an uncharacteristic human, operating far from the oversight of authority, and was a drunk and morose man who plotted against his fellows and no one in the Alliance speaks well of. Perhaps, King Wrynn ran into a similar situation? Perhaps Thrall did take steps to stamp out slavery in the Horde, but its insidious nature persisted in the dark corners far from his steely gaze? This would be a bit of a stretch, but it's one that could have worked. But is it what happens? No. In the comic, Jaina convinces Varian to attend a peace summit at Theramore to attempt to build a peaceful relationship with Thrall and the Horde. Varian brings Valeera, a Blood Elf who escaped slavery with Varian, and his son Anduin. Thrall brings Garrosh, who from a chronological perspective, made the first of his asshat moments, and Reghar Earthfury, the orc who kept two of the members of the Alliance delegation as slaves against their will. Not only does he tolerate slavery within the Horde, he thinks it's a good idea to make the slavemaster a trusted adviser on the peace process. No one brought up how immensely hypocritical and bone headed this is, and yet people wonder why Varian doesn't like Thrall. It's completely out of character for someone coming from the backstory Thrall has, and it's completely out of character for everyone around him to not notice. Have the races of Azeroth simply not discovered the most basic of social prudence?

This leads into what becomes Thrall's most damning problem. He's a storyline singularity. A black hole that warps those around him such that even the most basic literary laws simply don't hold anymore.
http://childrenofwrath.blogspot.com/...th-thrall.html

Is that what you signed up for? Negligent hypocritical demagogy?
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  #5599  
Old 06-01-2018, 03:13 PM
Fenixhart Fenixhart is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post


https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...orm_early_ama/



Lame.



Funny of you to quote a negligent demagogue. I'd like to quote someone too:


http://childrenofwrath.blogspot.com/...th-thrall.html

Is that what you signed up for? Negligent hypocritical demagogy?
Considering I "Signed up" in Burning Crusade before the great fractures in Blizzard's storytelling started showing, the answer would be no.

Or do I have to discuss chronology as well.
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  #5600  
Old 06-01-2018, 06:53 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Funny of you to quote a negligent demagogue. I'd like to quote someone too:
I'll take "negligent demagogue" times a thousand, who actually has good moral values, than the psychopathic racist warmonger, the negligent and superstitious Troll who enabled Garrosh and Sylvanas by not killing the former like he said and giving the latter absolute power because "de spirits whispa a name", and the psychotic and cowardly monster we've gotten since Thrall left. Thrall wasn't perfect, obviously, but he was loads better than the series of moist farts we've gotten since Wrath.

Thrall was, by practically every standard not set by edgy WCII lovers, the best Warchief. He wasn't a warmonger who wanted to throw his people into every conflict over minor skirmishes or insults, wasn't a superstitious idiot who named the most incompetent and genuinely evil leader of the Horde Warchief for no real reason (Garrosh, in his early days, at least had some redeeming qualities, unlike Sylvanas), and he came the closest to signing an actual peace treaty and ending the war. He would have succeeded at that, too, if it hadn't been for Varian "Douchebag Blackhole" Wrynn and Derposh Hurrscream constantly having meathead contests.


Quote:
http://childrenofwrath.blogspot.com/...th-thrall.html

Is that what you signed up for? Negligent hypocritical demagogy?
No, I signed up for an honorable faction of outcasts who were treated like shit by the hypocritical and stupid Alliance (back in the early days, the Alliance had faults instead of being utterly perfect at everything).
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