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  #5826  
Old 06-21-2018, 08:47 AM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
So as the Lordaeron scenario becomes more polished I'm curious about the blight.

Until now it has more or less just been treated as a chemical weapon but now it seems to be also capable of raising mindless undead, as we see from all the Blighted Soldiers in the aftermath of the battle. Furthermore, Anduin seems to have the ability to repel and/or clear it using his holy magic.

It is behaving a lot more like one of the Scourge's infectious agents now both in its effects and weaknesses and I wonder if that is intentional.

Also I know it's been pointed out a bunch already but still lmao that the Alliance assaulted Undercity without any plan for dealing with the blight, which the Forsaken have used in every major engagement with the Alliance since Cataclysm.
The Alliance isn't allowed to be effective against the Horde.
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  #5827  
Old 06-21-2018, 09:14 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Uther's tomb has had me tapping my chin because it seems completely unrelated to anything but Blizzard never does updates like that just because. A Lordaeron patch later down the road makes sense, though honestly I'd rather have a Kalimdor one. The EK are getting both Battle for Undercity and the Arathi warfront, while Kalimdor is ignored after Teldrassil is completely forgotten. And I say this as a human fan.
There is a map in the files called "Warfront Barrens" and some datamined stuff about the Alliance trying to invade Mulgore. So unless that's all scrapped stuff there should be some Kalimdor content coming in the patch cycle.
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  #5828  
Old 06-21-2018, 11:11 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Gonna be that guy right now and say that I think the Blight situation should have been solved by Worgen Druids learning how to counter it and bringing that specialty to the forefront. Them being more strongly counteractive against death magic would have set them apart from Night Elves a lot more and apparently there's a Worgen Druid quest-giver in Tiragarde that has an inkling of that concept where he gives you a staff to turn undead enemies you fight in a cave into allies and then they die after a moment of helping the player out.

Would also make Worgen an important factor in helping the Alliance reclaim Lordaeron and would make sufficient explanation for why they manage to reclaim Gilneas.

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Uther's tomb has had me tapping my chin because it seems completely unrelated to anything but Blizzard never does updates like that just because. A Lordaeron patch later down the road makes sense, though honestly I'd rather have a Kalimdor one. The EK are getting both Battle for Undercity and the Arathi warfront, while Kalimdor is ignored after Teldrassil is completely forgotten. And I say this as a human fan.
It's for the Alliance Undead allied race.

And quite frankly, while I do sympathize and hope that there's some content for Kalimdor later on, I think it's worth mentioning that the last time they told a faction war story it was largely expressed on Kalimdor because Cataclysm put most of its focus in storytelling on Kalimdor. Hell, if you quested as a Human, Gnome, or Dwarf you didn't really come face to face with any Horde until around Hinterlands and Western Plaguelands, and if you played a Worgen then you didn't fight ANY Horde UNLESS you decided to go the Kalimdor path, which sucks because that just ended up detaching you completely away from your homeland you should be fighting for. By deciding to limpdick the EK Alliance-side of the faction war, Blizzard ended up creating things that absolutely needed to be addressed and is something of which they seemingly are finally addressing now in BfA.

Last edited by Lord Grimtale; 06-21-2018 at 11:29 AM..
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  #5829  
Old 06-21-2018, 11:58 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Gonna be that guy right now and say that I think the Blight situation should have been solved by Worgen Druids learning how to counter it and bringing that specialty to the forefront. Them being more strongly counteractive against death magic would have set them apart from Night Elves a lot more and apparently there's a Worgen Druid quest-giver in Tiragarde that has an inkling of that concept where he gives you a staff to turn undead enemies you fight in a cave into allies and then they die after a moment of helping the player out.

Would also make Worgen an important factor in helping the Alliance reclaim Lordaeron and would make sufficient explanation for why they manage to reclaim Gilneas.
Neat ideas there.

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It's for the Alliance Undead allied race.

And quite frankly, while I do sympathize and hope that there's some content for Kalimdor later on, I think it's worth mentioning that the last time they told a faction war story it was largely expressed on Kalimdor because Cataclysm put most of its focus in storytelling on Kalimdor. Hell, if you quested as a Human, Gnome, or Dwarf you didn't really come face to face with any Horde until around Hinterlands and Western Plaguelands, and if you played a Worgen then you didn't fight ANY Horde UNLESS you decided to go the Kalimdor path, which sucks because that just ended up detaching you completely away from your homeland you should be fighting for. By deciding to limpdick the EK Alliance-side of the faction war, Blizzard ended up creating things that absolutely needed to be addressed and is something of which they seemingly are finally addressing now in BfA.
Also, Eastern Kingdoms has way more war potential. You have Gilneas to explore. And you have Quel'thalas to invade/defend.

Horde already invaded most of the Alliance land in Kalimdor and destroyed the two main Alliance cities in the continent (Theramore and Teldrassil). Yes, there's the Myst Isles, but they are already not really part of the main land.

Even the supposed Battlefront Barrens makes little sense, since Alliance has no stronghold/city to support a spearhead there.
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  #5830  
Old 06-21-2018, 12:33 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Even the supposed Battlefront Barrens makes little sense, since Alliance has no stronghold/city to support a spearhead there.
Technically the Horde doesn't have a stronghold/city to support a spearhead in Arathi either. Blizzard made an entirely new stronghold: Ar'Gorok. That's probably what they'll do for the Barrens.

Though a rebuilt Fort Triumph or maybe Bael Modan could work too.
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  #5831  
Old 06-21-2018, 12:49 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Technically the Horde doesn't have a stronghold/city to support a spearhead in Arathi either. Blizzard made an entirely new stronghold: Ar'Gorok. That's probably what they'll do for the Barrens.

Though a rebuilt Fort Triumph or maybe Bael Modan could work too.
Well, the Horde does have Silvermoon, and Plaguelands are (still) neutral territory. Also, there's Andorhal, thought its status is questionable. Also, Horde can supply Ar'Gorok throught Hinterlands (Revantusk control the coast) and Hammerfall. (I'm aware the table missions indicate Alliance control the whole of the north, but I question the canonicity of it like Sludge Fields still led by Stillwater).

I don't doubt Blizzard will end up making a Barrens Battlefront. It's just that it's forced. A Battlefront in Ashenvale or Feralas would make a lot more sense.
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  #5832  
Old 06-21-2018, 01:14 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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It seems pretty clear to me that Ar'gorok can be supplied from Hammerfall, and it from Revantusk and whatever other ports the Horde may have on the Forbidding Sea, which are in turn linked to Quel'Thalas.

As for the Silver Hand, they appear with Turalyon in the Alliance side of the warfront, which suggests they are already with the Alliance.

And in the Barrens, the mission table states that Fort Triumph is to be rebuilt, and both Bael Modan and Northwatch are still standing.
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  #5833  
Old 06-21-2018, 02:13 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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blizzard and good writing seems to have gone the way of the dodo bird
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  #5834  
Old 06-21-2018, 08:02 PM
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It seems pretty clear to me that Ar'gorok can be supplied from Hammerfall, and it from Revantusk and whatever other ports the Horde may have on the Forbidding Sea, which are in turn linked to Quel'Thalas.

As for the Silver Hand, they appear with Turalyon in the Alliance side of the warfront, which suggests they are already with the Alliance.

And in the Barrens, the mission table states that Fort Triumph is to be rebuilt, and both Bael Modan and Northwatch are still standing.
Also it seems the Horde has fully conquered Alterac Mountains, Hillsbrad Foothills and northern Arathi Highlands this expansion. They have enough support back lines.
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  #5835  
Old 06-21-2018, 09:50 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Also it seems the Horde has fully conquered Alterac Mountains, Hillsbrad Foothills and northern Arathi Highlands this expansion. They have enough support back lines.
Horde already had all those zones and it doesn't matter all that much when it has no way to resupply. Maybe Horde can resupply by sea on the East Coast of Arathi but without controlling Stromgarde Keep they have no way to reinforce anything past Thoradin's Wall.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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  #5836  
Old 06-22-2018, 01:35 AM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Also it seems the Horde has fully conquered Alterac Mountains, Hillsbrad Foothills and northern Arathi Highlands this expansion. They have enough support back lines.
I don't disagree, but where are you getting that information?
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  #5837  
Old 06-22-2018, 02:30 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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I hate that we have GOLDEN of all people on the writing team.

As that guarantees we will see warchief Spineless.

Pretty certain that individuals like hammerbrew are happy about this.

Baine as Warchief is all but confirmed and is at this point as evident as Voljin warchief was in MoP
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Baine should be murdered and killed off. He is a useless character
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  #5838  
Old 06-22-2018, 08:18 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Garona having no qualms on killing another king
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...there's no characters anymore. There's just names and models with dialgoe attatched to shepeard the player to whatever little end box they need to tick off.
Poor argument.

Have you seen people in real life with behavior issues? People who spend their whole life talking about how they used to be very fucked up and now they're on the path to salvation, only to see them doing the very same bad thing again in a matter of months?

People are fickle. Unstable. Words and beliefs are all beautiful, but when you take actions and behavior into account, you'll see that most people don't act according to what they preach. The current sociopolitical division in the west actually is a great depiction of that.

"There's no characters anymore" oh come on. It's like you're telling me you want them to be robots who do exactly what they say they're going to do and never deviate from a path once they've embarked in it.
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  #5839  
Old 06-22-2018, 09:24 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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I don't disagree, but where are you getting that information?
The Hillsbrad and Alterac information comes from the Eastern Kingdoms follower mission text, which has the horde still in control of Tarren Mill and the Sludge Fields (with Stillwater also somehow being alive, but then again he showed up alive and well in Legion so who knows) while also saying they're rebuilding Alterac City, Durnholde Keep, and Strahnbrad as new Horde strongholds.

The Arathi Highlands stuff is just the presence of Ar'gorok and Hammerfall.
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  #5840  
Old 06-22-2018, 10:56 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
The Hillsbrad and Alterac information comes from the Eastern Kingdoms follower mission text, which has the horde still in control of Tarren Mill and the Sludge Fields (with Stillwater also somehow being alive, but then again he showed up alive and well in Legion so who knows) while also saying they're rebuilding Alterac City, Durnholde Keep, and Strahnbrad as new Horde strongholds.

The Arathi Highlands stuff is just the presence of Ar'gorok and Hammerfall.
I really hope we get a Lordaeron patch that updates all such areas and make use of them. Alterac and Strahnbrad have been useless since Cataclysm. Gilneas as well.
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  #5841  
Old 06-22-2018, 02:52 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Poor argument.

Have you seen people in real life with behavior issues? People who spend their whole life talking about how they used to be very fucked up and now they're on the path to salvation, only to see them doing the very same bad thing again in a matter of months?

People are fickle. Unstable. Words and beliefs are all beautiful, but when you take actions and behavior into account, you'll see that most people don't act according to what they preach. The current sociopolitical division in the west actually is a great depiction of that.

"There's no characters anymore" oh come on. It's like you're telling me you want them to be robots who do exactly what they say they're going to do and never deviate from a path once they've embarked in it.
If Warcraft was believable the Horde would be dead or not be a major threat to the Alliance.
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  #5842  
Old 06-22-2018, 05:58 PM
Fenixhart Fenixhart is offline

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Poor argument.

Have you seen people in real life with behavior issues? People who spend their whole life talking about how they used to be very fucked up and now they're on the path to salvation, only to see them doing the very same bad thing again in a matter of months?

People are fickle. Unstable. Words and beliefs are all beautiful, but when you take actions and behavior into account, you'll see that most people don't act according to what they preach. The current sociopolitical division in the west actually is a great depiction of that.

"There's no characters anymore" oh come on. It's like you're telling me you want them to be robots who do exactly what they say they're going to do and never deviate from a path once they've embarked in it.
I want them to be beleivable and consistent, and if there are any changes, for there to be a damn good reason for them, especially for things that are core to their chracter.

Sylvanas going on about "the mercies of Undeath" as if her entire trajectory wasn't based on How much being Undead Is a fucking curse.

Garona, who was never proud, and borderline traumatized, over her actions with regards to King Llaine, boasting about how "She killed one king, she could very well kill another" like it's no big deal.

Lilian Voss, hating of Necromancers, throwing her lot in with the most overt mass-raiser since the Lich King. So far, she is the only one they attempted to reconcile this massive cognitive dissonance and it's still unpalatable.


Characters without internal Consistency may as well be robots that Blizzard moves around to make whatever banal plot they want to make work. It's always been a problem, but now it's extending to entire questlines. And it's not even a mistake-it's deliberate.

They don't care about story or characters. They make endpoints and move everything else to make it meet that endpoint with no regard to what came before.

How can I care about character who change so drastically? The person I may come to like may change within the span of a patch to suit their needs with no due dilligence on their part. And now that same blase approach to characters is leaking out into the questlines themselves.

Use whatever weak analogues to reality you want. It won't matter because there's no reality that changes as they forget or deliberately omit character traits and canon to drag along.
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  #5843  
Old 06-23-2018, 05:37 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I want them to be beleivable and consistent, and if there are any changes, for there to be a damn good reason for them, especially for things that are core to their chracter.

Sylvanas going on about "the mercies of Undeath" as if her entire trajectory wasn't based on How much being Undead Is a fucking curse.

Garona, who was never proud, and borderline traumatized, over her actions with regards to King Llaine, boasting about how "She killed one king, she could very well kill another" like it's no big deal.

Lilian Voss, hating of Necromancers, throwing her lot in with the most overt mass-raiser since the Lich King. So far, she is the only one they attempted to reconcile this massive cognitive dissonance and it's still unpalatable.


Characters without internal Consistency may as well be robots that Blizzard moves around to make whatever banal plot they want to make work. It's always been a problem, but now it's extending to entire questlines. And it's not even a mistake-it's deliberate.

They don't care about story or characters. They make endpoints and move everything else to make it meet that endpoint with no regard to what came before.

How can I care about character who change so drastically? The person I may come to like may change within the span of a patch to suit their needs with no due dilligence on their part. And now that same blase approach to characters is leaking out into the questlines themselves.

Use whatever weak analogues to reality you want. It won't matter because there's no reality that changes as they forget or deliberately omit character traits and canon to drag along.
Not to dispute your main point, and while you are certainly right about Garona and Voss, I would argue that Sylvanas’ trajectory changed to embracing Undeath clear back in Cataclysm and quite necessarily as the vendetta that defined her trajectory was quite resolved, and quite naturally too. I imagine anyone would find undeath preferably to Hell.
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  #5844  
Old 06-23-2018, 11:17 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Fenixhart View Post
I want them to be beleivable and consistent, and if there are any changes, for there to be a damn good reason for them, especially for things that are core to their chracter.

Sylvanas going on about "the mercies of Undeath" as if her entire trajectory wasn't based on How much being Undead Is a fucking curse.

Garona, who was never proud, and borderline traumatized, over her actions with regards to King Llaine, boasting about how "She killed one king, she could very well kill another" like it's no big deal.

Lilian Voss, hating of Necromancers, throwing her lot in with the most overt mass-raiser since the Lich King. So far, she is the only one they attempted to reconcile this massive cognitive dissonance and it's still unpalatable.


Characters without internal Consistency may as well be robots that Blizzard moves around to make whatever banal plot they want to make work. It's always been a problem, but now it's extending to entire questlines. And it's not even a mistake-it's deliberate.

They don't care about story or characters. They make endpoints and move everything else to make it meet that endpoint with no regard to what came before.

How can I care about character who change so drastically? The person I may come to like may change within the span of a patch to suit their needs with no due dilligence on their part. And now that same blase approach to characters is leaking out into the questlines themselves.

Use whatever weak analogues to reality you want. It won't matter because there's no reality that changes as they forget or deliberately omit character traits and canon to drag along.
Have you seen people in real life with behavior issues?
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  #5845  
Old 06-23-2018, 11:39 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Good news, MyMindWontQuiet posted on the discord that Garona has new dialogue. She explains Sylvanas has forced her to serve the Horde against her will, and that stuff about being eager to kill another king is an act so that Sylvanas won't question her loyalty.

She's also against the Alliance/Horde war in general, and warns the player that there's "only one war that matters. And it's not this one."

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  #5846  
Old 06-23-2018, 02:18 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #5847  
Old 06-23-2018, 02:52 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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On the one hand it's good, because now Garona hasn't done a complete 180 out of nowhere. On the other hand one more thing for Horde players to feel the opposite of faction pride about.
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  #5848  
Old 06-23-2018, 03:04 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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It really feels like the devs are having another debate over what direction to take Sylvanas in like they did with Garrosh, except this time they're communicating with each other so instead of having inconsistent stuff left in by accident, we're watching the tug of war being implemented with each build.
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  #5849  
Old 06-23-2018, 10:33 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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IF we’re in the market for a new War Chief, I’m beginning to think perhaps Garona might not be a bad choice. She’s quite intelligent and given how much time she spent with the Shadow Council I’m sure she’s picked up a thing or two about government. She’d be a strong statement with her appointment, yet she’s also perfectly capable of and interested in peace. She’s getting on in years, so maybe it’s time she hung up her daggers (perhaps in someone’s spine) and took up a management position. My main interest in her is that she’s an iconic character who has been a part of Warcraft since the very beginning.
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  #5850  
Old 06-23-2018, 10:42 PM
Fenixhart Fenixhart is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Have you seen people in real life with behavior issues?
There you go doing exactly what I said not to because

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Good news, MyMindWontQuiet posted on the discord that Garona has new dialogue.

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Lo and behold. Only a few hours difference and there has been 3 different Garonas.

Do I have to go over how Aggra had a baby within the span of a few months due to this same issue of Blizzard constantly changing characters?

They are terrible at Verisimilitude and are only getting worse. Fuck out of here with this "Behaviour issues" Bullshit.
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