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  #26  
Old 12-09-2013, 02:31 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
If the NSA didn't spy on games then foreign and domestic criminals/terrorists would use these outlets for communication. You try to cover your tracks and conceal your information and find out the enemies. Understanding how your enemy conducts surveillance and hiding how you conduct surveillance is how that works. You want the enemy to be vulnerable and exposed to your surveillance and yourself to be hidden in secret.

The NSA also goes after things like pedophiles too.
How much are you willing to sacrifice for safety?
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  #27  
Old 12-09-2013, 02:32 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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How much are you willing to sacrifice for safety?
You are silly. It is going to be okay. I promise.
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  #28  
Old 12-09-2013, 03:04 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Originally Posted by Finarfin View Post
That and probably not as many people play games and are as emotionally invested as folks are to their guns? Doubt that's the case though
The issue is that the NSA isn't threatening to take away the game. They're just monitoring in-game communication, so it doesn't really affect the game in any meaningful way. Most people realize that the NSA is unlikely to target them specifically.

Now, if there were a large and well-funded movement to take games away from people, then you'd see gamers getting very defensive in much the same way as gun-owners.

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You are silly. It is going to be okay. I promise.
"I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."

Reagan, a noted Republican, said these were the scariest words in the English language.
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Last edited by HlaaluStyle; 12-09-2013 at 03:08 PM..
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  #29  
Old 12-09-2013, 03:20 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by destron View Post
"I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."

Reagan, a noted Republican, said these were the scariest words in the English language.
How do you think Reagan would of felt about the NSA? I think he would of liked it.
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  #30  
Old 12-09-2013, 03:25 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
How do you think Reagan would of felt about the NSA? I think he would of liked it.
Reagan did say a lot of stuff and then did the opposite.
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  #31  
Old 12-09-2013, 03:36 PM
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Literally paying government agents to play computer games now. The mass American surveillance network is a sinister joke. By saying that the government has the right to collect digital information on everyone is entirely abolishing the concepts of privacy, individual autonomy and the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. The government musn't have that unaccountable power.

Last edited by Shaman; 12-09-2013 at 03:40 PM..
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  #32  
Old 12-09-2013, 03:55 PM
Finarfin Finarfin is offline

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Originally Posted by Sarahmoo View Post
The government musn't have that unaccountable power.
Agreed. What I find particularly alarming is the common sentiment amongst folks who are indifferent to it and make comments such as "Who gives a shit. Unless you are a terrorist, why do you care if the NSA or whoever else is listening, they don't care about your conversations unless you are doing illegal stuff. Everyone needs to get over this"
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  #33  
Old 12-09-2013, 03:58 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by Finarfin View Post
Agreed. What I find particularly alarming is the common sentiment amongst folks who are indifferent to it and make comments such as "Who gives a shit. Unless you are a terrorist, why do you care if the NSA or whoever else is listening, they don't care about your conversations unless you are doing illegal stuff. Everyone needs to get over this"
And of course, foreigners have no say in the matter because we are all potential terrorists who want to take over America.
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  #34  
Old 12-09-2013, 04:01 PM
Finarfin Finarfin is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
And of course, foreigners have no say in the matter because we are all potential terrorists who want to take over America.
Considering my nationality, I'm a terrorist by default. No doubt of the potential there
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  #35  
Old 12-09-2013, 04:06 PM
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My favorite coment so far:

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BREAKING: CIA breaks up terrorist plot against International Criminal Court; 25 attackers planned "heroic" raid on ICC leadership
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  #36  
Old 12-09-2013, 04:23 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I don't see how this is much different than any of the technology or power the government already has. If you guys still don't like it though you should write your representatives if you are American. There was an attempt to limit the powers of the NSA and it failed. Look up to see if that was your representative that did vote against it and complain to them. Put pressure on them.
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  #37  
Old 12-09-2013, 04:27 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Originally Posted by Pajamasalad View Post
I don't see how this is much different than any of the technology or power the government already has. If you guys still don't like it though you should write your representatives if you are American. There was an attempt to limit the powers of the NSA and it failed. Look up to see if that was your representative that did vote against it and complain to them. Put pressure on them.
Well I do what I can. I'd never vote for any party that supports the Swedish FRA that has been show to work closely with NSA.
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  #38  
Old 12-09-2013, 04:30 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Well I do what I can. I'd never vote for any party that supports the Swedish FRA that has been show to work closely with NSA.
That is how you get involved with your democratic process.



Is a debate over the amendment.

Amash, Amodei, Bachus, Barton, Bass, Becerra, Bentivolio, Bishop (UT), Black, Blackburn, Blumenauer, Bonamici, Brady (PA), Braley (IA), Bridenstine, Broun (GA), Buchanan, Burgess, Capps,Capuano, Cárdenas, Carson (IN), Cartwright, Cassidy, Chabot, Chaffetz, Chu, Cicilline, Clarke, Clay, Cleaver, Clyburn, Coffman, Cohen, Connolly, Conyers, Courtney, Cramer, Crowley, Cummings, Daines, Davis D, Davis R, DeFazio, DeGette, DeLauro, DelBene, DeSantis, DesJarlais, Deutch, Dingell, Doggett, Doyle, Duffy, Duncan (SC), Duncan (TN), Edwards, Ellison, Eshoo, Farenthold, Farr, Fattah, Fincher, Fitzpatrick, Fleischmann, Fleming, Fudge, Gabbard, Garamendi, Gardner, Garrett, Gibson, Gohmert, Gosar, Gowdy, Graves (GA), Grayson, Green G, Griffin (AR), Griffith (VA), Grijalva, Hahn, Hall, Harris, Hastings (FL), Holt, Honda, Huelskamp, Huffman, Huizenga (MI), Hultgren, Jeffries, Jenkins, Johnson (OH), Jones, Jordan, Keating, Kildee, Kingston, Labrador, LaMalfa, Lamborn, Larson (CT), Lee (CA), Lewis, Loebsack, Lofgren, Lowenthal, Lujan Grisham (NM), Luján BR (NM), Lummis, Lynch, Maffei, Maloney C, Marchant, Massie, Matsui, McClintock, McCollum, McDermott, McGovern, McHenry, McMorris Rodgers, Meadows, Mica, Michaud, Gary Miller, George Miller, Moore, Moran, Mullin, Mulvaney, Nadler, Napolitano, Neal, Nolan, Nugent, O'Rourke, Owens, Pascrell, Pastor (AZ), Pearce, Perlmutter, Perry, Petri, Pingree (ME), Pocan, Poe (TX), Polis, Posey, Price (GA), Radel, Rahall, Rangel, Ribble, Rice (SC), Richmond, Roe (TN), Rohrabacher, Ross, Rothfus, Roybal-Allard, Rush, Salmon, Linda T Sánchez, Loretta Sanchez, Sanford, Sarbanes, Scalise, Schiff, Schrader, Schweikert, Scott (VA), Sensenbrenner, Serrano, Shea-Porter, Sherman, Smith (MO), Smith (NJ), Southerland, Speier, Stewart, Stockman, Swalwell (CA), Takano, Thompson (MS), Thompson (PA), Tierney, Tipton, Tonko, Tsongas, Vela, Velázquez, Walz, Waters, Watt, Waxman, Weber (TX), Welch, Williams, Wilson (SC), Yarmuth, Yoder, Yoho, Young (AK)

Those are the representatives that voted in support of this amendment.

Here are the ones that voted for it to stay.

Aderholt, Alexander, Andrews, Bachmann, Barber, Barr, Barrow (GA), Benishek, Bera (CA), Bilirakis, Bishop (GA), Bishop (NY), Boehner, Bonner, Boustany, Brady (TX), Brooks (AL), Brooks (IN), Brown (FL), Brownley (CA), Bucshon, Butterfield, Calvert, Camp, Cantor, Capito, Carney, Carter, Castor (FL), Castro (TX), Cole, Collins (GA), Collins (NY), Conaway, Cook, Cooper, Costa, Cotton, Crawford, Crenshaw, Cuellar, Culberson, Davis (CA), Delaney, Denham, Dent, Diaz-Balart, Duckworth, Ellmers, Engel, Enyart, Esty, Flores, Forbes, Fortenberry, Foster, Foxx, Frankel (FL), Franks (AZ), Frelinghuysen, Gallego, Garcia, Gerlach, Gibbs, Gingrey (GA), Goodlatte, Granger, Graves (MO), Green A, Grimm, Guthrie, Gutiérrez, Hanabusa, Hanna, Harper, Hartzler, Hastings (WA), Heck (NV), Heck (WA), Hensarling, Higgins, Himes, Hinojosa, Holding, Hoyer, Hudson, Hunter, Hurt, Israel, Issa, Lee Jackson, Johnson (GA), Johnson EB, Johnson S, Joyce, Kaptur, Kelly (IL), Kelly (PA), Kennedy, Kilmer, Kind, King (IA), King (NY), Kinzinger (IL), Kirkpatrick, Kline, Kuster, Lance, Langevin, Lankford, Larsen (WA), Latham, Latta, Levin, Lipinski, LoBiondo, Long, Lowey, Lucas, Luetkemeyer, Sean Maloney, Marino, Matheson, McCarthy (CA), McCaul, McIntyre, McKeon, McKinley, McNerney, Meehan, Meeks, Meng, Messer, Miller (FL), Miller (MI), Murphy (FL), Murphy (PA), Neugebauer, Noem, Nunes, Nunnelee, Olson, Palazzo, Paulsen, Payne, Pelosi, Peters (CA), Peters (MI), Peterson, Pittenger, Pitts, Pompeo, Price (NC), Quigley, Reed, Reichert, Renacci, Rigell, Roby, Rogers (AL), Rogers (KY), Rogers (MI), Rooney, Ros-Lehtinen, Roskam, Royce, Ruiz, Runyan, Ruppersberger, Ryan (OH), Ryan (WI), Schakowsky, Schneider, Schwartz, Scott A, Scott D, Sessions, Sewell (AL), Shimkus, Shuster, Simpson, Sinema, Sires, Slaughter, Smith (NE), Smith (TX), Smith (WA), Stivers, Stutzman, Terry, Thompson (CA), Thornberry, Tiberi, Titus, Turner, Upton, Valadao, Van Hollen, Vargas, Veasey, Visclosky, Wagner, Walberg, Walden, Walorski, Wasserman, Schultz, Webster (FL), Wenstrup, Westmoreland, Whitfield, Wilson (FL), Wittman, Wolf, Womack, Woodall, Young (FL), Young (IN),

It was a very close vote but the anti-NSA people failed.
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  #39  
Old 12-09-2013, 05:12 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by Sarahmoo View Post
Literally paying government agents to play computer games now. The mass American surveillance network is a sinister joke. By saying that the government has the right to collect digital information on everyone is entirely abolishing the concepts of privacy, individual autonomy and the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. The government musn't have that unaccountable power.
Collection is not the same as analysis and dissemination. I don't see any difference between the government storing metadata and the government storing license plate numbers.

I've noticed that most anti-NSA folks don't have a particularly good answer when I ask how intelligence agencies are supposed to operate transparently without compromising their ability to do their jobs. Most haven't thought about it beyond "the idea that someone has access to my metadata creeps me out."

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
And of course, foreigners have no say in the matter because we are all potential terrorists who want to take over America.
Foreigners have no say in the matter for the same reason they have no say in any of the US' domestic affairs.

If you're claiming that the US shouldn't spy on other countries, then you're wrong. The US should spy on other countries and they should be better at it than anyone else.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.

Last edited by Fojar; 12-09-2013 at 05:14 PM..
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  #40  
Old 12-09-2013, 05:32 PM
EdWunclerIII EdWunclerIII is offline

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What you say in Trade is publicly accessible.

Also up on tonight's surprising news stories, water is most definitely wet, and blue is almost assuredly a color.
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  #41  
Old 12-09-2013, 05:33 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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blue is almost assuredly a color.
You lie!
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  #42  
Old 12-09-2013, 05:57 PM
Mshadowz Mshadowz is offline

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  #43  
Old 12-09-2013, 06:24 PM
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  #44  
Old 12-09-2013, 07:10 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
You'd think if these things worked we'd actually hear about them catching something, so I'm not sure how the hell these stay operational.
They classify who they catch and how they caught them, as they don't want everyone else to know how they caught. Because otherwise Al Qaida will stop having Skype chats or whatever.

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Collection is not the same as analysis and dissemination. I don't see any difference between the government storing metadata and the government storing license plate numbers.

I've noticed that most anti-NSA folks don't have a particularly good answer when I ask how intelligence agencies are supposed to operate transparently without compromising their ability to do their jobs. Most haven't thought about it beyond "the idea that someone has access to my metadata creeps me out."
The one main problem I have is the idea of "classified legal interpretations", or whatever the term was used. I think it's silly in that regard... I mean, what's Al Qaeda gonna do, hire some lawyers to look over the interpretations, find some generic ways to attack them, and then hand the material to the defense attorneys of arrested Al Qaeda members?
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Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.
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  #45  
Old 12-09-2013, 07:21 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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I bet this is what PJ does for the government.

If I was a government agent and I was payed to play WoW I'd be pretty happy.
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  #46  
Old 12-09-2013, 07:24 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by Erthad View Post
If I was a government agent and I was payed to play WoW I'd be pretty happy.
But what if they spy on you, and see you raid all day instead of sitting in SW watching the trade chat as they told you?
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  #47  
Old 12-09-2013, 07:40 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Their file on WoW is 90% anal jokes.
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You are right Fojar.
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  #48  
Old 12-09-2013, 07:55 PM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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And of course, foreigners have no say in the matter because we are all potential terrorists who want to take over America.
Yup.

Don't worry, we'll sort out those damned colonials, eventually.

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  #49  
Old 12-09-2013, 08:01 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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You guys know that the US doesn't spy on Canada, the UK, Australia, or New Zealand because they're all part of a robust intelligence-sharing network, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes
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You are right Fojar.
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You are right Fojar.
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  #50  
Old 12-09-2013, 08:05 PM
Shroombie Shroombie is offline

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You guys know that the US doesn't spy on Canada, the UK, Australia, or New Zealand because they're all part of a robust intelligence-sharing network, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes
Am I the only one who feels like New Zealand is kinda extraneous there? I mean, I'm doubtful we'll be attacked by the Tongans anytime soon.
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